Do you check scores between days/runs of major matches?

[matteekay]

We were kicking this topic around the other day and it seemed like there were quite a few opinions on it. When you're shooting a match that's more than one day, do you check scores in the evening? Or between stages if scores post immediately?

 

Personally, I avoid Practiscore like the plague. I'm not a good enough shooter to ratchet up my runs if I'm chasing someone (well, without a high probably of disaster), so I'd rather just shoot my game and hope for the best.  Other people I know take the stance that they'd prefer to know if they're in striking distance of leading (or are currently leading) so they can adjust accordingly. Obviously it gets a little complicated with USPSA's points-based scoring and even time-down when you're not shooting the same stages as your competition.

 

Thoughts?

[rowdyb]

I have flip flopped between both extremes of looking/not looking at Pscore for a multiday match. I can say I do NOT check it while I am shooting, even at matches that update during the course of the match. I do like to find video of maybe a particularly tricky stage if someone shoots it the day before I do.

[motosapiens]

My wife checks scores. I don't see the point. Is there anything in that information that can be helpful? or make me change something? If I need to be doing something different, why not just do it the right way right from the start.

[euxx]

The trick there is not to look at what you've done, but what you have to do to win the match. You still have to do what you have to do, but in some cases you have to push and knowing that gives you an advantage. 

Here is a related story from THE man himself https://brianenos.com/a-story-from-the-steel-challenge/

 

Similar situation from USPSA MG Nationals. Before going to the last stage Joel Turner had 10 points "potential" lead.

He had to complete his last stage in over 90% to win the match. He did better than that.

 

When viewing results in the PractiScore Competitor app you can see how many points you still have available with an "Available" flag in the main app menu. 

 

    

 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by euxx

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, euxx said:

The trick there is not to look at what you've done, but what you have to do to win the match. You still have to do what you have to do, but in some cases you have to push and knowing that gives you an advantage. 

 

 

 

If 'pushing' gives you a better score, why not just do it all the time?  Or are you talking about gambling and taking chances, to either crash and burn, or 'win'. ?

[euxx]

1 minute ago, motosapiens said:

If 'pushing' gives you a better score, why not just do it all the time?  Or are you talking about gambling and taking chances, to either crash and burn, or 'win'. ?

 

Yes. Like I said, knowing when you need to push and take risks vs play save is all part of the game. Some stages may allow different plans and knowing what you need to do also helps you to select the right plan for the stage.

 

Generally, all of this is part of the mental game and self confidence that you can execute. 

[Malarky112]

Ive never shot a multi day match, all my bug matches have been one day format.  I don't look at any results until I'm done shooting the match. I'm not at a level where it would matter.

 

Ben actually talks about this in his new book. He figures out scores as he goes and figures out what he needs to do.

[IVC]

 

On 8/19/2020 at 6:59 AM, euxx said:

Similar situation from USPSA MG Nationals. Before going to the last stage Joel Turner had 10 points "potential" lead.

He had to complete his last stage in over 90% to win the match. He did better than that.

 

When viewing results in the PractiScore Competitor app you can see how many points you still have available with an "Available" flag in the main app menu. 

 

    

 

It's only useful on the very last stage and when everyone else has shot all the courses and Joel is the absolutely last shooter. Otherwise a change in HHF can change the base score, which is precisely what happens here to Scott - he starts at 1097 and loses points because the HHF is bumped up by Joel and this happens through no action of Scott's. If there were other unfinished stages with at least one shooter remaining, the analysis would be meaningless because some other competitor could win a (different) stage, change HHF and completely mess up the base scores. 

 

So, unless Joel is the last shooter of all shooters on all stages, this analysis is only good enough for the very top guys who count on nobody bumping any of the HHF-s on any other stage. Short of that, any shooter on any stage bumping up the HHF will mess up the picture above in somewhat unpredictable way (can be analyzed, but requires quite a bit of data). 

 

[IVC]

I haven't shot many majors, in fact I shot exactly one that was local to me. I intend to change it, but in the meantime, here is my very limited experience. 

 

Checking scores between days is great. Based on who shoots which stages on day one, I could end up very high up, take a screen shot and act as if I'm a marathon runner currently in the lead. Of course, it doesn't work that way and it's meaningless, but it's still fun as a joke, especially when showing it to people who don't understand how scoring works (and there are enough of competitors who fall into this category, unfortunately). In fact, taking a snapshot of me in the lead is very similar to paying attention how you do in your class - pick and choose who to compare against and, voila, you're the best... 

 

On a more serious note, I would check how the top guys are doing on stages I've already shot to get a feel for the level of competition and how I'm doing relative to them. If a stage hasn't been shot by the top guys yet, there's no point in looking at it. 

[euxx]

10 minutes ago, IVC said:

It's only useful on the very last stage and when everyone else has shot all the courses and Joel is the absolutely last shooter.

 

Not only. It is very obviously useful for that situation.

 

You can also use this information even before that when there are multiple stages left. But have to do some more analysis. 

 

10 minutes ago, IVC said:

Otherwise a change in HHF can change the base score, which is precisely what happens here to Scott - he starts at 1097 and loses points because the HHF is bumped up by Joel and this happens through no action of Scott's. If there were other unfinished stages with at least one shooter remaining, the analysis would be meaningless because some other competitor could win a (different) stage, change HHF and completely mess up the base scores.

 

The part when you talking about "at least one shooter remaining" is not completely accurate.

At very least that is not just any arbitrary shooter remaining. It has to be really a contender (or someone who is really lucky or skilled for a given stage challenge). But even then you can still get a rough idea about amount of points that are at stake.

 

In Joel's example there was max 10 points available and he pushed Scott down by 9 points. The play ended up within 20 points (2% of the match points) and that's what you'd normally see (with a few known exceptions) at the level of competition that is there at the Nationals and Area matches. Like you usually won't see a 100 points jump.

 

10 minutes ago, IVC said:

So, unless Joel is the last shooter of all shooters on all stages, this analysis is only good enough for the very top guys who count on nobody bumping any of the HHF-s on any other stage. Short of that, any shooter on any stage bumping up the HHF will mess up the picture above in somewhat unpredictable way (can be analyzed, but requires quite a bit of data).

 

Again, it won't be "any shooter" and with last few stages left the people who have a shot at messing up other stages HHFs is are more or less known and you can use that information for your analysis.

If anyone interested, I can roll the time back for that match to see how situation been changing with 2, 3, 4, 5 stages left to be shot.

 

[euxx]

20 minutes ago, IVC said:

On a more serious note, I would check how the top guys are doing on stages I've already shot to get a feel for the level of competition and how I'm doing relative to them. If a stage hasn't been shot by the top guys yet, there's no point in looking at it. 

 

You could pick some average or A-ish class but consistent shooter who had shot all stages and see how his times and HFs stack up against top guns.

It might be even possible to make some normalized estimates of projected HHFs for not-shoot stages based on the shot stages average difference between A-ish shooter and the top guys...

[IVC]

3 hours ago, euxx said:

Again, it won't be "any shooter" and with last few stages left the people who have a shot at messing up other stages HHFs is are more or less known and you can use that information for your analysis.

Agreed, obviously - it's good analysis for the top level guys who know who can and cannot touch them...

 

Was just pointing out math issues since I've seen way too many shooters who don't understand scoring at all or at least not enough to understand that points are a tricky business as the HHF is moved around. Heck, in the last match I shot, last Saturday at Prado, in the overall standing I beat two Limited Masters, but in the Limited alone they beat me. It was within a few points, obviously, and was a consequence of some inconsistencies in my stages (fun things to work on as a homework, nothing too serious) which resulted in my scores fluctuating a bit more than usual. How many, even on this forum, understand these types of inversions and can tell with certainty how it happens? That's why I added my warning... 

[RJH]

Heck yeah you look at them.  The other day a guy i shoot with was #1 and ahead of max m. Another guy i shoot with was 3rd just behind max and ahead of coley. I took a screenshot and sent it to them so they could show their unknowing friends how awesome they were 

 

 

you never know when you might be dominating a match, or something like that lol

[Sarge]

I rarely even check them AFTER a match. LOL

[Nathanb]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

Heck yeah you look at them.  The other day a guy i shoot with was #1 and ahead of max m. Another guy i shoot with was 3rd just behind max and ahead of coley. I took a screenshot and sent it to them so they could show their unknowing friends how awesome they were 

 

 

you never know when you might be dominating a match, or something like that lol

I’ve done this before too. Lol

[Triggerslapper999]

I do. But I shouldn’t.

[BrianPurkiss]

I don’t. I just shoot my match. 
 

I use scores for analyzing performance, and I save that for after the match. 

[Scotty_JR]

I've never got into the habit of checking scores during. I even had someone ask me how my scores looked shortly after a major match. Couldn't give an answer. Wasn't keeping track. I think I prefer to just focus on the process for right now. 

[Dutchman195]

If Its a multi day match I'll check at the end of the day. But between stages - No. Nothing I'm going to get out of that besides getting sucked into my phone (assuming I even have service) and end up not focusing on stage planning, or resetting or pasting or whatever else I should be doing. 

Kind of like Trap/Skeet. If your on your way to a perfect round and are counting in your head going "Sweet I'm at 21 birds straight just 4 more" gonna miss one of those next 4 for over thinking. Might as well not even give my brain the opportunity to have those thoughts by looking at the scores. And finally, if I'm comparing myself to...Ben or JJ or Nils, they might not even be shooting the same stages I am that day, so dont really see the need. 

[Scrounger]

I mostly shoot steel challenge one day matches. I wait until the end of the day, but unfortunately the scoring is so simple I know where I stand by the time I approve the tablet and it can get in my head

[AzShooter]

Like Scrouger, I'm a Steel Challenge shooter now.  I see no point in checking scores during a match.  I can tell when I sign the tablet weather it was a good run or not and I only want to know my final tally to see if I've been upgraded in Classification.

 

Now years ago when I shot Archery things were different.  I check scores after every game against the better shooters. I was a showoff and wanted the attention so if I was behind I really worked the magic to improve.  I'm glad my ego has improved.

[Sinister4]

Never, I shoot the best I possibly can and the chips fall where they may.....

[Bdh821]

I've had this discussion with shooting friends.  I personally do not check scores.  I shoot my game and focus only on myself.  I've been told by some very top shooters that eventually I may need to check scores to push the limits of my abilities to potentially win a match.  Again, I just focus on myself.  It seems to work for me..  It also prevents distractions of what I can't control...  to each their own.. 

[Dicktater_Pete]

On 8/19/2020 at 12:19 AM, matteekay said:

We were kicking this topic around the other day and it seemed like there were quite a few opinions on it. When you're shooting a match that's more than one day, do you check scores in the evening? Or between stages if scores post immediately?

 

Personally, I avoid Practiscore like the plague. I'm not a good enough shooter to ratchet up my runs if I'm chasing someone (well, without a high probably of disaster), so I'd rather just shoot my game and hope for the best.  Other people I know take the stance that they'd prefer to know if they're in striking distance of leading (or are currently leading) so they can adjust accordingly. Obviously it gets a little complicated with USPSA's points-based scoring and even time-down when you're not shooting the same stages as your competition.

 

Thoughts?

I shoot matches infrequently.  Mostly for something to do.  Long as I don't shoot myself in the foot, the score isn't any concern to my hobbled old self.  I'm a consumate casual.  

[Nobody909]

I Like checking score during the match but ONLY for my previous runs. I never look at stages I have yet to shoot to see who the current leader is or how fast they run it. 

During multi day matches I'll look at the total scores and see how I did. On the last day of the shooting I'm carful to not look at the rankings until I've shot all the stages.

 

The main thing I look at is to see if my stage run was 90%-95% of the current winner.