Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[OptimiStick]

Yeah. I about fell over when I pulled all that out. But that's from forever. So probably.....30K rounds or so since that die was in. The swab was from my normal 8-1200 cleaning , just swabbing up into the die body. So that birds nest is from all those cleanings pushing it up into the adjustor cap. I went to clean that die before putting it away , and when I pulled the adjustor cap from the body, I found that little gem.

 

before cleaning the carbide ring, I was getting gauge failures - right near the rim at the very edge. Looking at the brass under specs, you could see a very slight 'ledge' forming just above the rim. Perfectly straight and square. I thought it was my sizing die, but after pulling brass at each station and gauging, it was the crimp station. All those accumulations where building up on the carbide sizing ring and changing the dimensions of the brass.

[quiller]

More testing:

 

I removed the powder drop, including die completely from the press. With a new piece of rolled rolled sized , casesized, swaged, primed and expanded with the Lee expander. I then hand loaded with 7.8 gains of HS-6 and placed back into the press at the (empty) powder station. Cycled the press a few times to place a projectile, size and crimp the round. Placed it in the gauge checker and it sat flush and fell out when inverted. I call this a pass. I did it one more time as its so much fun looking at my press (aka anchor) and trying to get 7.8 in a 9mm! Anyhow, the second one passed as well.

 

By the numbers:

 

1. If I take a piece of bass thats rolled sized, casesized, swaged, primed and measure the case mouth its 0.3770".

2. Same piece of brass after the going through the Lee expander is 0.3775", which is just enough to get MrBullet feeder to do its job.

3. Same piece of bass after going through the powder drop station, adjusted so the arm almost make a full cycle up is now 0.3795". This is why the crimp is having a hard time and I'm getting so many fails on my case gauge.

Photos in link below.

 

Question and task for manual Evo owners:

 

1. Please try the following. With the tool head up and a piece of sized and expanded brass in your hand shove up on the powder funnel (from below) to simulate cycling the press, yes you will get powder, so be careful. I'm curious how hard is it to raise the arm on the powder drop by hand using the above method. Tip, if you place the brass on your index finger just in front of your (finger) knuckle you can use your thumb to as leverage on the press and shove up with you hand to cycle the powder arm through a full cycle. Mine is hard and requires what I consider a great deal of force. It free in the sense its not binding but theses a fair amount of resistance. Once released it will go back down. Another thing I notices and I don't expect anyone to try this. But with the powder drop off the press if I cycle the arm with when the powder drop is not perfecially upright the arm will not go back with near the same force, but on the press and mounted correctly is return with force. Movie here if you want to break out the popcorn and make a night of it!

 

There you have it....I'm off to hang with family and watch TV. 

 

Cheers all....

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by quiller

[candiru]

5 hours ago, quiller said:

1. Please try the following. With the tool head up and a piece of sized and expanded brass in your hand shove up on the powder funnel (from below) to simulate cycling the press, yes you will get powder, so be careful. I'm curious how hard is it to raise the arm on the powder drop by hand using the above method. Tip, if you place the brass on your index finger just in front of your (finger) knuckle you can use your thumb to as leverage on the press and shove up with you hand to cycle the powder arm through a full cycle. Mine is hard and requires what I consider a great deal of force. It free in the sense its not binding but theses a fair amount of resistance. Once released it will go back down. Another thing I notices and I don't expect anyone to try this. But with the powder drop off the press if I cycle the arm with when the powder drop is not perfecially upright the arm will not go back with near the same force, but on the press and mounted correctly is return with force. Movie here if you want to break out the popcorn and make a night of it!

I have the latest updated mechanical powder measure with the small drum for pistol. It's nice & smooth up and down. It takes some effort to get the drum rotated -- whether that's excessive or not, I'm not an ME and haven't tried to do any math about that.  In terms of it over-belling, I'm running a Redding expander just prior to the powder drop. I setup the powder drop to the height to just get the drum to rotate fully and no farther and it all works.

[quiller]

4 hours ago, candiru said:

I have the latest updated mechanical powder measure with the small drum for pistol. It's nice & smooth up and down. It takes some effort to get the drum rotated -- whether that's excessive or not, I'm not an ME and haven't tried to do any math about that.  In terms of it over-belling, I'm running a Redding expander just prior to the powder drop. I setup the powder drop to the height to just get the drum to rotate fully and no farther and it all works.

Thanks so much for testing. Like you I have no way of measuring the amount of force, but its not low. However, if I compare to the 650 I had its much higher. I had the exact same set up but swapped to a Lee expander on Mk7 recommendation. As a matter of interest did the "latest updated mechanical powder measure" come with your press or did you have to buy it? Also, lots of folks on this thread had all manner of issues with this powder measure. It would be rather frustrating to solve the extra belling only to then have to deal with inconsistent loads, which I have already noticed with the few rounds I got off the press.

[Steyrarms]

Allright,  after showing my prototype toolhead stand last time, a fewthings have changed. Like M7 I made some improvements on the design. 

 

Now I‘m at revision 3, it‘s the final one. I have added another bore for the small guide rod in the back, that accommodates the spring.

Made the whole base higher so it sits flush with the guide rod, changed position of the hump for the case feeder actuator bar and made it a bit higher.

I also modified the size of the shell plate and the Mr. bulletfeeder plate a bit. 

 

For .printing, I used tough PLA from BASF, it is a lot stronger than PLA but does not shrink like ABS. 

 

Material costs per stand are about 20 USD, and you have a storage place for your bulletfeeder plate too.

 

I have to print another 2 for .223, next will be 9mm Luger stands

 

 

If you wantthe files, let me know, sharing i careing

[quiller]

My press is going on a road trip to visit Mk7 in FL. Got an email today from Anthony and he recommended sending it in. Mk7 will give it a good going over and hopefully it will be right as rain when I get it back. I'm very happy with Mk7's customer service, they're standing by their product and making me a happy camper. It was a bit of a pain to box it up since I just got it set up, but I'm okay waiting a bit more. Thanks again Misty and Anthony.

[kamber]

@Steyrarms Fine job sir, that is awesome! I'd love a copy of the .STL if you don't mind.

Edited April 25, 2020 by kamber

[candiru]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:16 AM, quiller said:

Thanks so much for testing. Like you I have no way of measuring the amount of force, but its not low. However, if I compare to the 650 I had its much higher. I had the exact same set up but swapped to a Lee expander on Mk7 recommendation. As a matter of interest did the "latest updated mechanical powder measure" come with your press or did you have to buy it? Also, lots of folks on this thread had all manner of issues with this powder measure. It would be rather frustrating to solve the extra belling only to then have to deal with inconsistent loads, which I have already noticed with the few rounds I got off the press.

Sorry, just saw this response.

 

I know the feeling. I waited to buy one because of hearing about so many early problems. I had to send my powder measure back to get it fixed. I find it absolutely unconscionable that the original owner of the company spouted so much bulls#!t about their powder measure being good and it took so long for the company to really fix the problem (by switching to the smaller drum).

 

I did a slew of testing when I first got the press and so I had a lot of data in hand before I called customer support. When I got it back, I did a lot more testing and it's been basically the same as the Dillon on my 1050 so I'm glad they did finally fix the problem.

[OptimiStick]

20 hours ago, quiller said:

My press is going on a road trip to visit Mk7 in FL. Got an email today from Anthony and he recommended sending it in. Mk7 will give it a good going over and hopefully it will be right as rain when I get it back. I'm very happy with Mk7's customer service, they're standing by their product and making me a happy camper. It was a bit of a pain to box it up since I just got it set up, but I'm okay waiting a bit more. Thanks again Misty and Anthony.

Yeah.  I had to send my first Revo back.   They sent all the packing materials, I packed it up and shipped it back.  Then they built me a new one and had it set up and running, I flew down to MK7 in Florida to take the one day class - on my new machine they had built, to verify functionality. Then they boxed it up and shipped it to me.  
 

[quiller]

2 hours ago, candiru said:

Sorry, just saw this response.

 

I know the feeling. I waited to buy one because of hearing about so many early problems. I had to send my powder measure back to get it fixed. I find it absolutely unconscionable that the original owner of the company spouted so much bulls#!t about their powder measure being good and it took so long for the company to really fix the problem (by switching to the smaller drum).

 

I did a slew of testing when I first got the press and so I had a lot of data in hand before I called customer support. When I got it back, I did a lot more testing and it's been basically the same as the Dillon on my 1050 so I'm glad they did finally fix the problem.

I was a bit concerned also as I bought...well paid for mine in Feb 2018, got it in November. I had a 650 so the Evo was like going from a Toyato MR2 to a Ferrari. I sure Mk7 will get it going good.

[quiller]

1 hour ago, OptimiStick said:

Yeah.  I had to send my first Revo back.   They sent all the packing materials, I packed it up and shipped it back.  Then they built me a new one and had it set up and running, I flew down to MK7 in Florida to take the one day class - on my new machine they had built, to verify functionality. Then they boxed it up and shipped it to me.  
 

I kept my original boxes so packing was easy. I'd like to go down for a class, but not flying with this virus business going around. Perhaps it will be cleaned up by the time they get my press rebuild. Be a nice treat to go somewhere other than the living room and bedroom! I'll update here on progress. Be safe.

[OptimiStick]

Yeah. I highly recommend the class . It's 1:1 , tailored to you. Having loaded as much as I have over the years, I was skeptical I'd learn much - but I was wrong. I'm very glad I went.

[Steyrarms]

On 4/25/2020 at 2:42 AM, kamber said:

@Steyrarms Fine job sir, that is awesome! I'd love a copy of the .STL if you don't mind.

Just send me a pm with your email address and I‘ll sendyou the files

[kamber]

3 minutes ago, Steyrarms said:

Just send me a pm with your email address and I‘ll sendyou the files

 

Just sent, cheers.

[slavex]

@Steyrarms I made a couple of my own stands and made an insert for where the main bolt that holds the toolhead on the press is on the holder to accept a powder measure as well, I have an extra powder measure that I swap out on the same toolhead for different powders for 9mm. that way my powder measure is not just being left hanging somewhere

[DJRyan13]

On 4/26/2020 at 5:33 PM, Steyrarms said:

Just send me a pm with your email address and I‘ll sendyou the files

What 3D printer are you using and do you recommend it to someone who doesn’t know anything about them?

[Thetimb]

23 minutes ago, DJRyan13 said:

What 3D printer are you using and do you recommend it to someone who doesn’t know anything about them?

It’s not like printing on a normal printer that uses paper. 
 

there is a ton of tweaking based on humidity, filament type, filament brand. 
 

then you have print speeds on first layers and higher layers. It’s a TON of tweaking and not for the faint of heart.  You will probably spend more time tweaking than printing. 

[kamber]

34 minutes ago, Thetimb said:

It’s not like printing on a normal printer that uses paper. 
 

there is a ton of tweaking based on humidity, filament type, filament brand. 
 

then you have print speeds on first layers and higher layers. It’s a TON of tweaking and not for the faint of heart.  You will probably spend more time tweaking than printing. 

 

I think this is pretty dependent on what kind of printer you get. Albeit, all of them can require tweaking, but some require more, and some more often than others. I don't think that 3D printers are any more difficult to figure out and tweak/adjust than reloading presses are. There are large communities out there for the popular printers, just like there are for Dillon, Hornady, Mark 7 presses, etc.

 

@DJRyan13, I'm using a Prusa i3 MK3S. For it's pricepoint, it is largely regarded as the go-to. If you're looking for cheaper, the Ender 3 is insanely popular in the lowest price point category, but can possibly require upgrades and copious tweaking like @Thetimb said. 3D Printing is honestly quite similar to reloading; its not as easy as putting legos together, but its not quantum physics either; leverage the wealth of information, data, lessons learned, and wisdom compiled by those that have done it already to make your own foray a little easier and less of a headache. As a guy who is getting into reloading at the same time as 3D printing, I actually think reloading is the more difficult of the two in terms of initial learning curve and reaching "auto-pilot status" when it comes to actually running the machines.

Edited April 28, 2020 by kamber

[Thetimb]

1 hour ago, kamber said:

 

I think this is pretty dependent on what kind of printer you get. Albeit, all of them can require tweaking, but some require more, and some more often than others. I don't think that 3D printers are any more difficult to figure out and tweak/adjust than reloading presses are. There are large communities out there for the popular printers, just like there are for Dillon, Hornady, Mark 7 presses, etc.

 

@DJRyan13, I'm using a Prusa i3 MK3S. For it's pricepoint, it is largely regarded as the go-to. If you're looking for cheaper, the Ender 3 is insanely popular in the lowest price point category, but can possibly require upgrades and copious tweaking like @Thetimb said. 3D Printing is honestly quite similar to reloading; its not as easy as putting legos together, but its not quantum physics either; leverage the wealth of information, data, lessons learned, and wisdom compiled by those that have done it already to make your own foray a little easier and less of a headache. As a guy who is getting into reloading at the same time as 3D printing, I actually think reloading is the more difficult of the two in terms of initial learning curve and reaching "auto-pilot status" when it comes to actually running the machines.

I had the same printer and 3D printing wasn’t for me. With reloading you can instantly see your results and tweak. With printing it’s way more time consuming. It takes 10-15 minutes to see your results depending on what you tweak. 

then you need to clean the build plate in between those print tweaks etc. Now if you want to start talking about cad and creating your own designs vs printing what someone else created.  That’s another time suck. 
 

 

[kamber]

10 minutes ago, Thetimb said:

I had the same printer and 3D printing wasn’t for me. With reloading you can instantly see your results and tweak. With printing it’s way more time consuming. It takes 10-15 minutes to see your results depending on what you tweak. 

then you need to clean the build plate in between those print tweaks etc. Now if you want to start talking about cad and creating your own designs vs printing what someone else created.  That’s another time suck. 
 

 

 

I respect that. Individual mileage and preferences vary as with all things.

Edited April 28, 2020 by kamber

[OptimiStick]

Yeah,  I've got a Lulzbot Mini and it's been a super solid performer. The 2.85mm filament can be a little harder to find than than 1.75mm , but that's been my only gripe. I've got it set up on a Rapsberry Pi4 octoprint server. 

[Steyrarms]

Ultimaker 2+, before the toolheads, I never printed a single thing in 3D.

I read a bout it and watched some Yt videos, used the settings BASF provided for their Tough PLA and started with the first Toolhead stand..... 18h later it was done. Appart from design, the print was ok.

After a few small revisions, I printed the next one. Now I got 3x 223, 3x 9mm (on is in the making right now) and after I go for another 2x 308.

In between i printed out a primer kicker for the M7 primer collator. It looks like I got the large primer bowl. Every time a primer came standing upright to the primer kicker, it got caught and startet to spin like a tire... I used a cable tie that i glued onto the kicker and even it was working, I hated the solution because it was a cheap fix.

 

Long story short, if you are willing to spend the money, you will get a plug and print solution. But money can never replace common sense. I do 3D drawings with Sketchup since over 10 years and you should have a basic understanding of where will force occur, so you increase the infill in this areas (3D prints are not solid objects, rather than hull with a honeycomb inside to make it strong and lightweight)

 

 

@slavex I had that before on my old 1050 stand. Right now I have a load in 9mm that performs so exzeptionell well, that I will not touch any setting on this toolhead. I always try to reduce components down to a minimum and than buy em in large quantities.

 

The M7 EVO pro today, is a very fine pice of equipment. I only made about  25.000 cases (first pass) in 223 and 9mm and so far not even 12.000 live rounds. Next batch will be 10K .223 but due to the shut down, I can‘t finish my ladder testing. I load in batches of 5-10k with nice and slow 1000 rounds per hour. 

I used to work with the Redding powder measure but switched to the M7 electronic version. So far the M7 delivers the accuracy as the Redding does, this counts for simple powder like Lovex D073.4 as well as for one of the worst ones called RS20 from swiss reload. It‘s a small flake powder, I had nothing but troubles with this one in the Dillon powder measure. The Redding was accurate to +-0.05gr with 100 tested charges, the M7 was at +0.07 -0.05gr. The dillon had up to 0.5gr variation with the same powder at 5gr target load.

 

One thing for sure, the M7 needs to be locked after a lot more than the 1050, what is perfectly fine. Maintenance, cleaning and lubing all spots regular are highly recommended.

 

Apart from the upside down primers every now and then (and M7 not answering my mail) I‘m very happy with the Evo Pro. I‘m quite sure, the reason for the upside down primers is, because I got the wrong bowl for the collator. Maybe someone can send me a picture of their (maybe even already replaced) small primer, primer collator.

[slavex]

@Steyrarms I load for a few different people most of use Tightgroup, but the girlfriend uses WSF, swapping powder measures and not toolheads is sooo nice

[pfeife]

Is there an easy way to separate the hopper filled with powder from the Powder measure? I have to lock away powder, but don't want to take out the complete Powder measure every time i'm done loading. I'm loading .223 on an Evo Pro, now and then the Powder Drum is stuck in the up position. I tried cleaning and greasing some moving parts (including those O-rings), without success. Where can i find complete disassembly instructions for the Powder Measure? Any help is appreciated! 

[Steyrarms]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:34 PM, pfeife said:

Is there an easy way to separate the hopper filled with powder from the Powder measure? I have to lock away powder, but don't want to take out the complete Powder measure every time i'm done loading. I'm loading .223 on an Evo Pro, now and then the Powder Drum is stuck in the up position. I tried cleaning and greasing some moving parts (including those O-rings), without success. Where can i find complete disassembly instructions for the Powder Measure? Any help is appreciated! 

 

Electronic or Mechanical Powder measure? If it is the Mechanical one, just use stronger springs. It is the powder that jams the movement. Worst case, send it back to M7 or DAA