Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[OptimiStick]

10 hours ago, dosproduction said:

Does anyone know if the top main large Allen should keep spinning? Also talking with mark 7 they now recommend to not use moly grease. Does anyone know the new maintenance procedures? 

 

Do they want red N tacky where they previously wanted the moly?

[dosproduction]

To answer your question I do not know the new procedure for living that’s why I was asking. When I had the guy from mark7 on the phone he just told me moly grease was out and they would release the new way at some point.

   
  So just got the trimmer in. I’m confused by how to set up. It came with 2 wrenches but they fit nothing. 1 Allen which does not fit anything. The “die” has 1 lock nut, should there be 2? It comes with a collet, what is that for? And it came with a separate plastic packaged for cutting die but that was empty (the trimmer had a cutting die on it though). Also the blue shaving catcher does not fit flush, should it? And what side of it is the top? Sorry about all of that new to this type of trimmer.

[dosproduction]

So most of the above I figured out. But now I’m running into a different issues. The trimmer came with the Dillion shroud/ shaving catcher. Well that bad boy don’t fit for crap. Is there a different option anyone made or came up with? It won’t seat all the way down do to the center of the press having a raised portion. Dies on both sides are squeezed to the max by it. When I watch the few videos I can find of a set up with the trimmer, one has nothing near it. The other has a black shroud that is not as bulky as the Dillion shroud. Thanks

[RGA]

Hi,

 

I have the trimmer in station 3 and had to butcher the manifold to make it fit. You can play somewhat with the height of the trimmer on the trim die by adjusting the cutter somewhat.

 

Kind rgds,

RGA

[dosproduction]

Got any pics on the butcher job? Seems like the thing will end up with a hole in the side if I want it to fit. 

[avastcosmicarena]

FWIW, they are releasing their own replacement trimmer for the Bosch unit sometime within the next few months. It will be much smaller.

[RGA]

That would be great (but too late for me) because the Bosch trimmer/router is a behemoth! And so heavy that the mainspring of my Evo can barely cope.

[quiller]

All, sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure I gave as much detail as possible. I’m trying to dial in my Mk7 Evo manual and it’s not working out. I bought the Evo over two years ago and it sat in storage as we moved a few times in between. Below is my dia set up and here’s my process for making rounds for my 9mm open gun with 124 grain Precision Delta's, over 7.8 grains of HS-6 at 1.145 OAL.

 

1. Go to range, shoot and pick up more brass than I arrived with. I’m too cheap to buy brass especially when I have access to unlimited amounts at the range.
2. Caliber sort, wet tumble with stainless steel needles, lay out to dry. I do not sort by head stamp and I would prefer not to (if possible). Didn't need to on my 650 and I don’t want to start on the Evo. The 650 made rounds all day long the same gun.
3. Rollsize all brass and then its one pass through Mk7 Evo, with a spray of One Shot.

Die set up based on info I asked for and found here way back when I first started setting up the press:

1. Case feed
2. Redding Premium Titanium Carbide resizing die with the decapping pin 
3. Mighty Armory THE BACKER Swage Die
4. Mighty Armory THE BACKER Primer Die
5. Redding Premium Expander die 
6. Powder measure
7. Back up camera to 6” monitor so I can see powder in case
8. Mr. Bulletfeeder 
9. Redding Competition micrometer seating die
10. Redding micrometer taper crimp die

After Rollsizing and resizing (station #2) all brass will size correctly in my EGW case gauge and will fall out if inverted. After a bunch of fiddling I managed to get 20 or so rounds through the press fully loaded so I could chrono but many more would not fully seat in the case gauge, or would seat, but would not fall out when inverted. Some needed a tap and seemed to feed okay in the gun, but others would not feed correctly. I measured the final bullets diameter and I’m within tolerances. I tried adjusting the expander die thinking it was too much, but there’s a point where the bullet will not seat at the Mr. Bulletfeeder station, so I think I have it belling correctly. I adjusted the crimp, removed the crimp and reinstalled, but I’m lucky if I get 5 out of 10 rounds that case gauge correctly and will feed/cycle the gun correctly. One thing I did notice is if I rollsize, resize, bell, seat a bullet and crimp so I have only one round in the press on the crimp station when the head is raising back up after the bullet is crimped I feel a slight knock (more like a scraping) like something is not aligned. Beyond that everything else seems to me working as expected. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

 

[RGA]

On 3/28/2020 at 4:35 PM, dosproduction said:

Got any pics on the butcher job? Seems like the thing will end up with a hole in the side if I want it to fit. 

Sure.

 

Also I placed the cutter bit low in the trimmer so I could place the whole trimmer higher on the trim die. And I still need to force/squeeze/hammer the manifold in between the neighboring dies. There is pressure on the dies on both sides which is far from ideal. I'm thinking of taking the trimmer off and going back to a seperate trim cycle on the 650.

 

This is not what I expected when MK7 sold me on the 1-pass-loading story.

Edited March 29, 2020 by RGA

[slavex]

@quiller can you post video of your machine empty and pulling the handle a dozen or so times so we can see the indexing? The scraping you're feeling could be one of the alignment pins rubbing on the shellplate as the toolhead comes down. Another thing you could check is to remove the toolhead and pull the handle through a full stroke (being sure that the swage rod doesn't hit the underside of the shellplate if it doesn't index enough) and seeing if you feel any scraping then. If you do I would make sure the main ram is lubed, I lube it with machine oil, just a small amount, everytime I sit down at my Revolution, same goes for the guide rod and bushing at the back. 

Cases not fitting in the gauge properly after loading could be because that gauge is made a little shorter than some specs. And easy way to tell is to simply seat a bullet deeper and see. I load 147gr to 1.11" OAL, 124gr too. Another test would be to run a case through and not seat a bullet, but let it go through the crimp station, then see if it goes into the gauge correctly. If it does than it is for sure OAL. Some gauges are tighter in tolerance than others. The ultimate test is a plunk test in your gun's barrel. If it fits in there and fits your mags, then all is good. 

[quiller]

3 hours ago, slavex said:

@quiller can you post video of your machine empty and pulling the handle a dozen or so times so we can see the indexing? The scraping you're feeling could be one of the alignment pins rubbing on the shellplate as the toolhead comes down. Another thing you could check is to remove the toolhead and pull the handle through a full stroke (being sure that the swage rod doesn't hit the underside of the shellplate if it doesn't index enough) and seeing if you feel any scraping then. If you do I would make sure the main ram is lubed, I lube it with machine oil, just a small amount, everytime I sit down at my Revolution, same goes for the guide rod and bushing at the back. 

Cases not fitting in the gauge properly after loading could be because that gauge is made a little shorter than some specs. And easy way to tell is to simply seat a bullet deeper and see. I load 147gr to 1.11" OAL, 124gr too. Another test would be to run a case through and not seat a bullet, but let it go through the crimp station, then see if it goes into the gauge correctly. If it does than it is for sure OAL. Some gauges are tighter in tolerance than others. The ultimate test is a plunk test in your gun's barrel. If it fits in there and fits your mags, then all is good. 

Thanks for reaching out. I think I got it. I adjusted the bell all the up. Ran a few pieces of brass through and made sure the crimp was set correctly so they would gauge without bullets. Then I adjusted the bell a little at a time untill the bullet seated but didn't fall off. Then I readjusted the crimp ran a few more through, this time with bullets and all gauged correctly! More importantly, they plunk tested. Its late at this point so I'll get back at this tomorrow evening, but we are moving in the right direction. As for the scraping I believe it was caused by too much bell and possibly too much crimp also. Will report back with an update tomorrow. I'll post a video also just in case I'm missing something, but I think it's cycling correctly and everything is aligned. Thank again.

[slavex]

@quiller My goto on crimp is that I don't want to see any marks on a pulled bullet. The crimp is really just supposed to take out the bell, not actually crimp like you would on a revolver round (I'm assuming you're running semi auto bullets). So on a new setup it's just slowly adjusting the crimp until I see a mark on the bullet and then back it off a little bit until no indent. 

 

Over flaring can cause all sorts of problems, including over stressing the cases which would reduce the number of times you can reload them. If you're constantly picking your own brass that can come into play. 
I've gotten to know my Revolution intimately, from having to remove and drill and tap a new setscrew for the top pin on the crank, pulling the motor to do so, swapping top plates back and forth (the part of the press the shellplate sits on), and all the adjustments for index etc,  to replacing fuses and wires inside the console (all my fault). I think I've got a good handle on it now, but Tom, Misty and Anthony regularly surprise me with input on things I'd never even noticed or thought about.

[quiller]

16 hours ago, slavex said:

@quiller My goto on crimp is that I don't want to see any marks on a pulled bullet. The crimp is really just supposed to take out the bell, not actually crimp like you would on a revolver round (I'm assuming you're running semi auto bullets). So on a new setup it's just slowly adjusting the crimp until I see a mark on the bullet and then back it off a little bit until no indent. 

 

Over flaring can cause all sorts of problems, including over stressing the cases which would reduce the number of times you can reload them. If you're constantly picking your own brass that can come into play. 
I've gotten to know my Revolution intimately, from having to remove and drill and tap a new setscrew for the top pin on the crank, pulling the motor to do so, swapping top plates back and forth (the part of the press the shellplate sits on), and all the adjustments for index etc,  to replacing fuses and wires inside the console (all my fault). I think I've got a good handle on it now, but Tom, Misty and Anthony regularly surprise me with input on things I'd never even noticed or thought about.

I'm going to continue fine tuning but here's a video of the press cycling. Not sure if it what you wanted but ping me back if you need anything in particular. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCzLMG5r5cNVXWSu8

[slavex]

@quiller thanks for the video, I would bet some of the scraping is the toolhead spring, I don't have that on my Revo, and forgot you'd have that. Your index looks solid, no need to tune that. So I'd put some grease on the spring and some machine oil on the rear guide rod and the main ram. Also make sure you've greased the crank and oiled the internal guide rod too. 

[Steyrarms]

Since I life in Europe, all the good M7 stuff costs a lot extra. I got 3 Toolheads and I love the M7 Toolhead stand, but 100€ or 95USD x 3 is too much. So I desigend my own version, that not only stores the shell plate but also the Mr bulletfeeder plate, away. 

 

This first version was only a test, to se if everything fits. Since we used a fill rate of less than 30%, the whole thing is not very robust. The final version will have a fill rate of 30% in most areas, 80% 1“ around the foot of the stand and about 1“ of the stand itself (in the bottom area). This should be more than enough to be rugged enough.

 

I was quite supprised, that even this lightweight demo unit did withstand the weight of the toolhead. I did hear some crunchy noise, when I tightened the top bolt to secure the Toolhead ....

 

The 223 Mr. bulletfeeder plate is different in thickness than the 9mm plate, so there will a own stand for 223

 

 

 

 

 

[quiller]

On 3/31/2020 at 2:34 AM, slavex said:

@quiller thanks for the video, I would bet some of the scraping is the toolhead spring, I don't have that on my Revo, and forgot you'd have that. Your index looks solid, no need to tune that. So I'd put some grease on the spring and some machine oil on the rear guide rod and the main ram. Also make sure you've greased the crank and oiled the internal guide rod too. 

Had a chance to do some more testing today but the end results were terrible. Keeping the same process, rollsize, size, bell, MrBullet feeder drops a round, seat and crimp. If I do one at a time I have slightly better results, however, running the press as it should be run the results get bad really quickly. If they were all bad I'd say I just need to fine tune for running the press at regular speeds (by hand mind you), but the results are all over the place. If I go back to one at a time the results are better, but still way off. Out of 30 rounds 11 sat flush in the gauge (same gauge I used on my 650 for years, same load, same ammo). I removed any that were not flush as clearly they were not going to work. Of the remaining 11 rounds, 6 fell out when the gauge was inverted and 5 did not, however a slight tap and they did fall out. 10 of the 11 passed the plunk test and 1 would not rotate in the chamber. Given my results I would accept that one, but its still not as good as I'd like and still not as good as my 650. At this point I'm ready to call Mk7 and see what they can do for me. As you all know I have a bunch of money tied up in this press and right now it would make a better anchor! I'm all ears if you have any other suggestions. Thanks

[DJRyan13]

This might have been asked but my primer slide goes too far forward I think. The primer punch stays in the up position. Brand new press. Anything I can do to adjust?

[RGA]

Very nice Steyrarms!

[slavex]

@quiller yeah I'd say you need to give them a call. Something needs to be adjusted for sure.

[quiller]

On 4/5/2020 at 2:56 AM, slavex said:

@quiller yeah I'd say you need to give them a call. Something needs to be adjusted for sure.

I emailed them on Saturday. If I don't hear by mid day tomorrow I'll call them. The bad news is someone complained about the noise at my gun range and the cops used this dan virous as an excuse to shut it down! I'm not a happy camper. Trust me I feel safer at the range than I do at the gas station!

[jcwallace84]

@Steyrarms If you need someone to test print one of those 9mm stands let me know! ; )  I have a 9mm system, and recently bought a spare for 223.  I have a Prusa mk2S printer.  I really wish I had time to build models for stuff like that!

[OptimiStick]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:08 PM, quiller said:

Had a chance to do some more testing today but the end results were terrible. Keeping the same process, rollsize, size, bell, MrBullet feeder drops a round, seat and crimp. If I do one at a time I have slightly better results, however, running the press as it should be run the results get bad really quickly. If they were all bad I'd say I just need to fine tune for running the press at regular speeds (by hand mind you), but the results are all over the place. If I go back to one at a time the results are better, but still way off. Out of 30 rounds 11 sat flush in the gauge (same gauge I used on my 650 for years, same load, same ammo). I removed any that were not flush as clearly they were not going to work. Of the remaining 11 rounds, 6 fell out when the gauge was inverted and 5 did not, however a slight tap and they did fall out. 10 of the 11 passed the plunk test and 1 would not rotate in the chamber. Given my results I would accept that one, but its still not as good as I'd like and still not as good as my 650. At this point I'm ready to call Mk7 and see what they can do for me. As you all know I have a bunch of money tied up in this press and right now it would make a better anchor! I'm all ears if you have any other suggestions. Thanks

 

Kind of similar to the issue I had.  I was getting gauge failure too. Just above the rim, like the brass was bulged. Not all of them but like 30%. Turns out it was a combination of me over flaring, and then brass shavings accumulating on the sizer ring of my Lee Factory Crimp die. The build up was causing a deformity in the brass. I was over-flaring sort of on purpose, it was giving me 100% bullet retention from the MBF dropper die at high RPM.  I was able to tone the flaring down a little bit and now I just take a barrel swab and clean out that FCD every few thou rounds. I ran a bunch of single-cycles and kept pulling brass at each station and gauging it to find out where the issue was happening. I thought it was at the sizing station until I gauged each round along the path to isolate where it started failing the gauge. You obviously don't have the FCD, but maybe pull some at each station to see where the deformity is happening.

[quiller]

On 4/5/2020 at 2:56 AM, slavex said:

@quiller yeah I'd say you need to give them a call. Something needs to be adjusted for sure.

 

1 hour ago, OptimiStick said:

 

Kind of similar to the issue I had.  I was getting gauge failure too. Just above the rim, like the brass was bulged. Not all of them but like 30%. Turns out it was a combination of me over flaring, and then brass shavings accumulating on the sizer ring of my Lee Factory Crimp die. The build up was causing a deformity in the brass. I was over-flaring sort of on purpose, it was giving me 100% bullet retention from the MBF dropper die at high RPM.  I was able to tone the flaring down a little bit and now I just take a barrel swab and clean out that FCD every few thou rounds. I ran a bunch of single-cycles and kept pulling brass at each station and gauging it to find out where the issue was happening. I thought it was at the sizing station until I gauged each round along the path to isolate where it started failing the gauge. You obviously don't have the FCD, but maybe pull some at each station to see where the deformity is happening.

I called Mk7 and we determined its the shell plate. I removed the swage die while on the phone, lowered the head and looked down from the top at the alignment between the swage and the shell plate. It was way off and as I cranked the handle it's consistently off. Its hard to see in the photo, but real easy in person. So, new shell plate on the way and we'll see if that addresses the issue. I uploaded a photo to the google link so you can see the miss alignment. Since my machine was real early in the production line apparently the firm making the shell plates were not holding to super tight tolerances. Mk.7 has that one under control now. As for customer service it was wonderful....Here's the link again: https://photos.app.goo.gl/sCzLMG5r5cNVXWSu8

[PokerNGuns]

On 4/4/2020 at 5:08 PM, quiller said:

Had a chance to do some more testing today but the end results were terrible. Keeping the same process, rollsize, size, bell, MrBullet feeder drops a round, seat and crimp. If I do one at a time I have slightly better results, however, running the press as it should be run the results get bad really quickly. If they were all bad I'd say I just need to fine tune for running the press at regular speeds (by hand mind you), but the results are all over the place. If I go back to one at a time the results are better, but still way off. Out of 30 rounds 11 sat flush in the gauge (same gauge I used on my 650 for years, same load, same ammo). I removed any that were not flush as clearly they were not going to work. Of the remaining 11 rounds, 6 fell out when the gauge was inverted and 5 did not, however a slight tap and they did fall out. 10 of the 11 passed the plunk test and 1 would not rotate in the chamber. Given my results I would accept that one, but its still not as good as I'd like and still not as good as my 650. At this point I'm ready to call Mk7 and see what they can do for me. As you all know I have a bunch of money tied up in this press and right now it would make a better anchor! I'm all ears if you have any other suggestions. Thanks

Earlier you said sizing is good after station 2. Your expanding prior to powder drop like I do. I would check you expansion after powder measure incase you have it to low and it is adding flare....after that seating bullet should have little affect as long as bullet is aligned decent. How consistent is your crimp measuring at the end? Seen/read several that fight gauge issues that are from inconsistent crimp/loose die

[quiller]

3 hours ago, PokerNGuns said:

Earlier you said sizing is good after station 2. Your expanding prior to powder drop like I do. I would check you expansion after powder measure incase you have it to low and it is adding flare....after that seating bullet should have little affect as long as bullet is aligned decent. How consistent is your crimp measuring at the end? Seen/read several that fight gauge issues that are from inconsistent crimp/loose die

See above for what I did today with Mark 7 support. I was not getting any extra flare at the powder drop, just powder...thankfully. The crimp was hit or miss and I did notice while testing the other day that if I hunkered down and looked up at the crimp die as it was coming down it appeared to be misaligned. When I check today by looking down through the head at the swage alignment with the shell plate its clearly off. That's the same misalignment I (hopefully) see at the crimp station. Also, on some rounds I can see a dent (like its over crimping) on one side of some rounds, so thinking I had too much crimp I'd let off, but then I had too little! Lets see what happens in a week or so when I get the replacement shell plate.