Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[Sigarmsp226]

Guys - Reading that most who receive their Evo or Revo units now have missing parts. I think I just found that I am part of this crowd. I think I am missing one side of my powder measure system or is this a new design?
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BiknSwans]

4 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Guys - Reading that most who receive their Evo or Revo units now have missing parts. I think I just found that I am part of this crowd. I think I am missing one side of my powder measure system or is this a new design?

 

Looks like a new design to me.  Here is a picture of mine from my March 2020 purchase.

 

[Sigarmsp226]

Thanks Bikn for responding.  If you look at the photos it looks like someone took the screws out of the lower holes on the blank side. Makes me wonder if I received a donor unit that had pieces taken off of it....I am looking for Misty’s (Mark 7) email so I can send her an email with pictures but so far no luck in finding her email....

 

Thanks again for responding to my issue...Mark

[Baragasam]

40 minutes ago, BiknSwans said:

 

Looks like a new design to me.  Here is a picture of mine from my March 2020 purchase.

 

 

Yup, this is the same as mine. 2 linkage arms on each side. @Sigarmsp226 is right they have a new design. I'm surprised they didn't contact the previous owners with the last gen for a recall. I wondered what was their reasoning on changing the design....

[Baragasam]

6 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Thanks Bikn for responding.  If you look at the photos it looks like someone took the screws out of the lower holes on the blank side. Makes me wonder if I received a donor unit that had pieces taken off of it....I am looking for Misty’s (Mark 7) email so I can send her an email with pictures but so far no luck in finding her email....

 

Thanks again for responding to my issue...Mark

 

Here's her email Misty Kapke <misty@markvii-loading.com>. She's.......sometimes helpful. I've also gotten help from their other CS Michael Landrum <mlandrum@markvii-loading.com> whom I think he may have forgotten about my support ticket by now... (Been trying to send my rifle rotary drum to them for repairs because of a snapped factory screw: hence why I suggested upgrading to the Lowe's grade 8's; problem solved)

[Sigarmsp226]

Baragasam - Thank you again Sir for your help. I will email both now to see if this is a new design and if mine is missing parts...Seems that even the new design would have the support bracket and spring on both sides like the previous but with companies having sourcing issues now due to COVID and always looking to cut costs I might just be one of their first for this change...I will let you know what I learn whenever someone responds...Thanks again

[Baragasam]

6 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Baragasam - Thank you again Sir for your help. I will email both now to see if this is a new design and if mine is missing parts...Seems that even the new design would have the support bracket and spring on both sides like the previous but with companies having sourcing issues now due to COVID and always looking to cut costs I might just be one of their first for this change...I will let you know what I learn whenever someone responds...Thanks again

 

You're possibly correct. It could also be them simplifying the design to eliminate weak points too. Until we get a straight answer from them I would not assume until then. 

 

I also forgot to mention when I first received my Mark VII it was missing a lot of the caliber conversion parts too (I ordered it in 9mm, 223 and 308). They took care of that quite promptly but any quality or functionality issues they try to sweep it under the rug or play it off. 

[Sigarmsp226]

UPDATE - Just received a call from Michael Landrum at Mark 7 and he advised that the item I received above is the newest version powder measure that is shipped when someone orders the Evolution manual system without the Pro upgrades (planned automation).  He said the "missing arm and spring" on the side of the powder measure is not missing because all EVO manual systems ship with powder measures that only contain one arm and one spring (really - is this true?).....

 

At this point if I can find a way to order another arm, spring, bolts, and spacers my plan will be to fit the second side of my powder measure with the arm and spring because the holes are there - and everyone before me who owns a EVO has two arms and two springs so why should I not be allowed to have the same.....so much for owning the Swiss Watch Version.... 

 

As for the body style - he said they went to a molded cast body and moved away from the machined body to save costs.....

 

Now you know what I know...... I still want 

[Baragasam]

33 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

UPDATE - Just received a call from Michael Landrum at Mark 7 and he advised that the item I received above is the newest version powder measure that is shipped when someone orders the Evolution manual system without the Pro upgrades (planned automation).  He said the "missing arm and spring" on the side of the powder measure is not missing because all EVO manual systems ship with powder measures that only contain one arm and one spring (really - is this true?).....

 

At this point if I can find a way to order another arm, spring, bolts, and spacers my plan will be to fit the second side of my powder measure with the arm and spring because the holes are there - and everyone before me who owns a EVO has two arms and two springs so why should I not be allowed to have the same.....so much for owning the Swiss Watch Version.... 

 

As for the body style - he said they went to a molded cast body and moved away from the machined body to save costs.....

 

Now you know what I know...... I still want 

 

WOW, sounds like a downgrade more than an upgrade. Planned or unplanned automation shouldn't mean getting a "crappier" powder measure. I personally went with the EVO vs a Dillon because of planned automation. I know Mark VII was bought out by Lyman and ever since then many aspects of the company and their products has changed. Ask them for a refund on the powder measure and get yourself another brand of powder measure from other companies. If you paid the same for a lesser of-a-quality product than expected without any notice that is what I would do. 

[BiknSwans]

1 hour ago, Baragasam said:

WOW, sounds like a downgrade more than an upgrade

 

If the downgrade works just as well, why worry?  I'll bet the new powder measure works fine, but we'll see.  I'll be following this.  My powder measure has been anything but 'crappy'.  Smooth as silk and very consistent.

[MikeyScuba]

Hmmm.  I’ll have to check what I got today.  My 2 digital powder measures showed up today.  Not well packed, the bottom of the die broke through the bubble wrap but the sleeve looks ok.  Not up to my standards.... but I ship 5-25 boxes a week of usually hard/$$$ to replace stuff.  Like 90 year old Dusenburg parts that UPS disappeared last year. 

[Sigarmsp226]

You can call me a Dumb A** for what I am about to say - but I really want a powder measure like the one that everyone here has to date.  I emailed Misty and Sydney at Mark 7 three days ago to ask if I can "upgrade" from what I received to the old CNC style - still no response from either.  I guess I will put a WTB ad in the classifieds here for the old style to see if anyone has one still NIB that they ordered for a caliber conversion or if someone went to the digital model.  I will keep the one I received (I guess) since I guess it is what they are shipping now with the EVO manual systems......It's the OCD in me....and I am old.... and stubborn.... 

 

[Baragasam]

2 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

You can call me a Dumb A** for what I am about to say - but I really want a powder measure like the one that everyone here has to date.  I emailed Misty and Sydney at Mark 7 three days ago to ask if I can "upgrade" from what I received to the old CNC style - still no response from either.  I guess I will put a WTB ad in the classifieds here for the old style to see if anyone has one still NIB that they ordered for a caliber conversion or if someone went to the digital model.  I will keep the one I received (I guess) since I guess it is what they are shipping now with the EVO manual systems......It's the OCD in me....and I am old.... and stubborn.... 

 

 

Sorry to hear bud, same experience as you with their CS right now. They both used to be really good but I guess they're swamped with inquiry right now and trying to take care of 'newer' customers first. Like I said your best bet is hold onto the "cheaper" powder measure and don't open it until they respond back while in the meantime finding yourself a powder measure that you like. Aside from the hardware issues I've had with their powder measure it's been really accurate to use with both ball and flake powders. Give Mark 7 a call, I don't think they're so good with emails. 

[Sigarmsp226]

Received help from Mark 7

Edited December 2, 2020 by Sigarmsp226
Update post information

[Baragasam]

4 hours ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Received help from Mark 7

 

How did it go?

[Sigarmsp226]

Michael Landrum at Mark 7 is the nicest guy. He helped me adjust the advance arm on my press after two calls (because I did not get it the first time) but he never lost his patience with me. I was only on hold for 2-3 minutes before he answered the phone and actually responded to an email this morning before 8 a.m. that I sent through their on line assistance link at about 5 a.m. this morning.....

 

As for the press - I am one day away from giving it a trial run of 400-500 bullets...My Dillon variable case feeder arrived and it fit the factory pole perfectly and the provided Hornady case feeder feed tube snapped right in also so within 5 minutes of unboxing the Dillon variable speed case feeder it was feeding cases.....

 

As for the powder measure I received - Michael reconfirmed that it is the new unit provided with all Evolution units and its accuracy should be as good as the earlier version....I was told I could not return it for an upgrade unless I was going to a digital auto feed powder measuer and I am not.....Thats ok - I need to “let it go” that I did not get what I wanted and they advertised and use what they provided because Michael said it is a very good powder measure....

 

I will be hooking up my MBF and my Double-Alpha powder check and then I will be ready to give this jewel its first run.....

 

I appreciate all of the support, feedback, and comments...I have no regrets selling my NIB - RL1100 to fund this loader...I view this to be an investment that will last me a lifetime....Mark

[Baragasam]

2 minutes ago, Sigarmsp226 said:

Michael Landrum at Mark 7 is the nicest guy. He helped me adjust the advance arm on my press after two calls (because I did not get it the first time) but he never lost his patience with me. I was only on hold for 2-3 minutes before he answered the phone and actually responded to an email this morning before 8 a.m. that I sent through their on line assistance link at about 5 a.m. this morning.....

 

As for the press - I am one day away from giving it a trial run of 400-500 bullets...My Dillon variable case feeder arrived and it fit the factory pole perfectly and the provided Hornady case feeder feed tube snapped right in also so within 5 minutes of unboxing the Dillon variable speed case feeder it was feeding cases.....

 

As for the powder measure I received - Michael reconfirmed that it is the new unit provided with all Evolution units and its accuracy should be as good as the earlier version....I was told I could not return it for an upgrade unless I was going to a digital auto feed powder measuer and I am not.....Thats ok - I need to “let it go” that I did not get what I wanted and they advertised and use what they provided because Michael said it is a very good powder measure....

 

I will be hooking up my MBF and my Double-Alpha powder check and then I will be ready to give this jewel its first run.....

 

I appreciate all of the support, feedback, and comments...I have no regrets selling my NIB - RL1100 to fund this loader...I view this to be an investment that will last me a lifetime....Mark

 

Hey thanks for getting back to us if anything. It's always good to have more information on how Mark 7's customer service works which in my opinion creates transparency for not only current customers but new customers alike. I have no doubt the new powder measure is just as accurate as the older iteration. We all have our own perceived value on things. But I agree they should update their advertising to current inventory as it would be false and misleading. 

[Sigarmsp226]

Guys - Wanted to ask for guidance please. Photo shows what I am experiencing. About 2-4 out of every 100 rounds I load have sideway seated CCI SPP and I have also experienced two primer discharges since I started loading on my EVO.....
 

As you can see the press and priming slide is clean and free from oil and dirt....
 

Is this something I am doing wrong or is it machine related?  I am 100% sure that the primers are being loaded into the tube in the correct orientation. 
 

Wonder if I might have a large primer tube assembly on my small primer set up?  
 

Any help is appreciated....Mark
 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by Sigarmsp226

[Baragasam]

Hey @Sigarmsp226,

 

When my evolution gets dirty from reloading the priming system starts to jam up (sideway primers, jammed/rough primer shuttle movement, priming pin gets dirty and can cause hiccups too). I typically do a cleanup during caliber changes and follow the maintenance manual for greases/oils. But since you just started on yours I doubt that's the case. My Evolution was shipped with the small primer shuttle installed which looks like yours. Works with both SPP and SRP. I used the same priming pin for both but calibrated seating depth differently for various primers and calibers.  

 

Here's a list of variables which I found on the Evolution that helped with priming issues (these are just my findings, use their maintenance manual for direct instruction): 

-Ensure the shell plate is properly installed with the shell plate nut: this decreases flex of the shell plate and allows the cases to be aligned properly. 

 

-Priming hold down dies has helped make priming much more consistent in both depth and overall rigidity during the primer insertion process. I use the Dillon and Lyman Universal hold down dies. The Dillon one flares/bells the case mouth ever so slightly to seat FMJs. My experience is cast bullets tend to shave a bit with just the Dillon die so I use a Lee universal expander as well. With the Bullet Feeder, do not use the Double Alpha powder funnel in the Bullet Feeder package in the Mark 7 Mechanical Powder measure to expand case mouths as Mark 7 will not warrant their mechanical powder measure if done so (per Michael Landrum and Misty Kapke from Mark 7). 

 

-Make sure the swage station (if priming and swaging at the same time) also has a hold down die. This prevents the swaging action from flexing the shell plate upwards and out of level. 

 

-Cyclic speed is crucial: Complex reloading machines can never go too slow but going too fast tends to cause failures. Primers and shells can shake/vibrate/jump out of place which prevents proper line up during the down stroke. 

 

-When there's abnormal resistance met at the down stroke, do not go further as that can cause further complications. Without sensors the stations I typically had resistance during hang-ups were: Decap, Swage, Priming and bullet seat station if the bullet tips over.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Baragasam

[MountainMan]

Mark,

I had the issue also. I have since moved up to the automated priming system, but I struggled with the original priming system on my Evo for many hours. Honestly it's a temperamental system.

 

Are you also having jams of primers in and above the primer slide, under that plastic cap, etc?

 

Are you having any other issues, besides this? Often multiple issues are from one problem, so that can sometimes help source the problem.

 

Have you tested to see if this priming issue is correlated with press speed?

 

One source for canted primers was that they never settled into the cup quite right, and if the hole in the shuttle doesn't align properly with the bottom of the primer tube as it moves back, the primers from the tube won't drop in quite right. 

 

That set screw at the end of the primer shuttle adjusts that stopping point. If it stops too early or too late, it won't allow the primer to drop into the cup properly. Speed affects this also, so the faster it goes the more problematic any mis-collimation will be...in my experience. What is your cycle speed?

 

Empty your primer tube, and shine a bright light down along the top of the shuttle as you look down the primer tube. With the proper lighting, you should be able to see the hole (primer cup in the shuttle) line up at the end of the primer tube. This is with the toolhead “up” at the end/beginning of cycle, of course.  You can move the shuttle by hand back and forth. If I recall, Mark 7 says the primer shuttle should go just a tad 'beyond' the hole properly, for optimal timing of the primer drop into the cup. So, actually, they shouldn't be exactly collimated but the primer slide's hole just a tad beyond the bottom of the tube, per mark 7.

 

Here's a very NON-Mark 7 endorsed tactic: Because it's an intermittent issue, I would run without cases at the slowest speed after making any adjustments, and observe if any primers come up sideways on the primer punch. If you set the dwell right, you can set it slow enough that you have plenty of time and can actually remove each primer from the punch by hand or with a small medical-type clamp. I used a mosquito-clamp to which I'd epoxied a small thin piece of EVA (spongy rubber type material) on each clamp face, so when i grabbed the primer that ensured I would not damage it or dent it with the clamp.  I kept the stop switch in my other hand to stop the press if I dropped it, etc. But there was plenty of time. If you do 100 cycles without sideways primers, up the speed but keep the bottom dwell prolonged to continue the assessment until you get to your usual speed.

 

Other causes: Keep all the cases that suffer this issue. I see your example is Blazer brass, which I've found to be pretty good. But sometimes you'll get some WMA cases with stiff swaged pockets that don't always swage out adequately. That sometimes causes problems.

 

Primer slide chatter. if you remove your primer tube assembly etc so you can move the slide back and forth in the channel, you may feel it 'chatter' a bit. See if there are any crude mill marks on the side of the channel. If so, you might try polishing those. But not too much...don't try to grind them perfectly flat, or you will remove too much metal and get too much side to side play in the primer slide, making the problem worse. Then you'll need a replacement assembly ($).

 

Lastly, make sure everything is tight on the primer assembly. All screws, etc. And that the primer tube isn't actually bent, and/or the end of the tube marred or knicked, this can retard primer drop making them hang briefly and tilt as they drop. Take the tube out and roll it on a flat surface. If it's not perfectly straight that will show it.

 

While I don't think it's the main cause for your sideways primers, I'll echo Baragasam above rec for hold down dies and a snug shellplate. That is a common cause for variable primer seating. I use a resizing die at Priming and Swaging (with decap assembly out, obviously) to ensure this. I tried using a modified Dillon swage back rod, but that held the case down by pushing on the inside bottom, right at the primer flash hole. I use mixed variably fired brass and every case is different, and that just wasn't working, as each case base height was slightly different. Some wouldn't be held down enough, and others would hang the press and shut it down. So holding the case down by the walls, as a resizing die does, is the best I think. I screw it down the same way I would set up at the actual resizing station, so the die just barely touches the shellplate.... But, again, those issues are not causing a sideways primer.

[MountainMan]

And those circular marks on the slide top....are those impressions made by the primer tube? your primer tube should not be touching the top of the slide, perhaps there is an issue with the gap between the bottom of the primer tube and the top of the primer shuttle. Those brush-type striations are actually normal. that's the result of the undersurface of the primer riding along the shuttle top as the shuttle moves back and forth. I can't recall the exact nature of the assembly now, it's been a couple years since I had that system....

Edited December 31, 2020 by MountainMan

[Sigarmsp226]

Thanks Baragasam for this information.  Going through this list I have all of this covered or managed and what is crazy is my cycle rate is about 10-12 rounds a minute - in other words - SUPER SLOW.....I am super careful as I cycle this system and stop when something does not feel right or sound right....
 

As you can see the system is clean but after having my second primer detonation this morning and thus far I have loaded less than 1000 rounds I am about to give up on this system....

 

I would guess that I have loaded 30k-40k rounds on my Dillon 650 without the first primer detonation and this unit has had two in my first 1000 rounds and I have had between 20-30 primers loaded sideways also in this first 1000 rds loaded.....I am kicking myself for selling that NIB Dillon RL1100 I sold to buy this system but that is water under the bridge....

 

Thanks again for the support and recommendations...I have told myself that I will wait to hear back from Michael because he may tell me it is something I am doing or that he will send me a replacement part that should fix the issue....before I decide what I am going to do....

 

Happy New Year my friend and thanks again for your support...Mark 

[MountainMan]

Ah, you are cycling by hand, sorry I didn't realize that. Have you confirmed primers are coming up sideways already, then? 

[Sigarmsp226]

MountainMan - Thank you Sir - I am headed back out to the reloading room to go through all of your points one by one to see if after going through all of these points it fixes the issue....
 

Many Thanks for taking the time to make your post....

 

Also - neglected to mention - I do use hold down dies on all stations and use a Lee U die above the priming station...I will start at the top of your list and work my way through everything you recommended I check....I do not load military brass - I was fortunate to work a deal where I now have 30k pieces of sorted select brass all being non-military and no stepped brass so it should not be crimp related....

 

Update you guys later this evening as I am headed out to give all of these suggestions a review and/or fix....Mark

[Baragasam]

@MountainMan's advise on the priming system setup is spot on. I too removed the plastic triangle tip cover that covers the priming shuttle "slide" as it travels from the bottom of the primer tube to the bottom of the shell plate. It was causing hang-ups for me there as well whenever the press was experiencing shakes or vibrations. Having a sturdy reloading platform is crucial to every complex reloading system in my experience. Adjusting the shuttle stop position when it's retracted under the primer tube also eliminated some failures for me as well as @MountainMan suggests. I also adjusted the primer shuttle actuating bar/spring/nut system on the back (please refer to maintenance manual) so that the shuttle is engaged earlier on the downstroke which has helped a lot as well. The engagement is much more direct.  

 

I too also wonder what those impression marks on the shuttle are as mine doesn't have them. Good lookout on that one @MountainMan

 

I also tried @MountainMan's idea of using the sizing die without the decapper on the priming station. I added a snake camera to where the decapper was which allowed me to see on my laptop what the primers were doing as they are being seated into the primer pocket. My problem was the priming punch/pin moving the shells ever so slightly to where it tilts and hits the bottom body of the sizing die instead of going into the sizing die. 

 

You're welcome @Sigarmsp226! The Evolution press is definitely not for the beginner reloader and you are making great progress with the available information. I too had many complications when I moved onto the Evolution and am still learning. But by design idea it is the best on the market for my hobby reloading needs in my experience. Correct me if I'm wrong but from my findings the Evo is the only press on the market that you can install a primer orientation sensor on. I reload once fired mixed range brass. With 9mm I don't prep my brass aside from cleaning it and culling nickel plated cases after cleaning (I reload those too but separately as a personal preference). I also have plans on automating (manual loading is not for me) and the Evo is by far the only press that is built with automation first and foremost by design and at consumer prices. You are not doing yourself a disservice by selling your RL1100 for the Evolution if you want the current best consumer/hobby/light-commercial (as advertised by Mark 7) automated reloading machine that has an in-house automation add-on and with the most advanced (as of 2020) monitoring capabilities. 

 

In regards to the cyclic speed it's not only how fast rounds are being produced but also how fast the shell plate is being indexed (up-stroke) and how fast the down-stroke is. 

 

Happy new years to you all as well! Hopefully this coming year brings us that primer oscillator 2.0 and Bosch trimmer 2.0! As well as customer retention management....