Mark7 Evolution - Tuning & Troubleshooting

[Thetimb]

10 hours ago, slavex said:

wow I can't imagine what that clunking sound is at all. It doesn't sound like the clunk I once had that disappeared when I tore it down and put it back together (I think that the base plate can maybe twist a bit when you're moving it and that can make things go clunk). 

 

the clicking sound seems to come from the primer bowl assembly underneath but what is concerning is whatever is happening is shaking the entire press. The tablet holder shakes and the primer bowl as well (which is causing me problems). I also think its giving me a tough time with coated bullets as well.

 

I assumed this was all normal since they sent me the press back like this but I guess not. 

 

Here is another video. Turn sound on in the image. 

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/dUjQMOU

[Thetimb]

Would anyone with an evo + on board primer collator mind posting a video of the press running with no cases going through the shell plate? 

[Steyrarms]

1 hour ago, Thetimb said:

Would anyone with an evo + on board primer collator mind posting a video of the press running with no cases going through the shell plate? 

Here you go, I was running on different speeds ro show you how it should be.

https://streamable.com/2nb31u

 

I have 2-3 ideas what it could be, first the indexing, to check that, you need to revove the Primer disk attachement (the whole thing!) Then check if indexing is freely moving.

 

Next would be the Guid rod of the crank mechanism itself. You got that nice big Clear plastic window in the front to se into the core, and in the back you got another one to access the guide rod. This rod needs oil every now and than, but even more important it need to be aligned perfectly. There is a how to manual on the M7 evolution User group on the M7 forum.

 

Next big Question, is the crank mechanism tight to the drive shaft.

When you look trough the clear big window, you will see 2 grub screws when the ram is up.... check them, they must be tight

 

And yet another thing, make sure the set screw for the top stroke limitation is set correctly, you will find that screw next to the small window

 

I in your case, would give M7 a call, they might have the right idea straight away

 

 

[Thetimb]

37 minutes ago, Steyrarms said:

Here you go, I was running on different speeds ro show you how it should be.

https://streamable.com/2nb31u

 

I have 2-3 ideas what it could be, first the indexing, to check that, you need to revove the Primer disk attachement (the whole thing!) Then check if indexing is freely moving.

 

Next would be the Guid rod of the crank mechanism itself. You got that nice big Clear plastic window in the front to se into the core, and in the back you got another one to access the guide rod. This rod needs oil every now and than, but even more important it need to be aligned perfectly. There is a how to manual on the M7 evolution User group on the M7 forum.

 

Next big Question, is the crank mechanism tight to the drive shaft.

When you look trough the clear big window, you will see 2 grub screws when the ram is up.... check them, they must be tight

 

And yet another thing, make sure the set screw for the top stroke limitation is set correctly, you will find that screw next to the small window

 

I in your case, would give M7 a call, they might have the right idea straight away

 

 

 

 

Oh wow that is buttery smooth. I called and left a voicemail and opened a ticket. I am waiting on them to get back to me. 

[Thetimb]

On 6/22/2020 at 1:23 AM, slavex said:

the new bowls they've moved that wiper to after the first cutout to cure the issue of primers bunching up at the wiper. There is a new piece to replace the black finger that primers go sideways under, in both aluminum and plastic, works great for me, no more sideways primers at all. 

 

 

Here is a picture of the new bowl and my old one. It stops all the sideways primer issues I was having. 

 

new bowl: https://imgur.com/gallery/WJ5KIuU

 

old bowl: https://imgur.com/gallery/dugKS4n

[Steyrarms]

More important than the new position of the wiper, is the way the cut outs are milled, you can spot the difference straight away, this looks a lot more like a Small primer bowl than the old one. Now I just need to get hold of somebody to ship it to me in Austria

[Thetimb]

28 minutes ago, Thetimb said:

 

 

Oh wow that is buttery smooth. I called and left a voicemail and opened a ticket. I am waiting on them to get back to me. 

 

 

It's hard to see in this video but on upstroke that main shaft shakes as well as the pin in the back when the thud/clunk happens.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/3MumN4b

[Steyrarms]

Even after more than 50k strokes, i do not hav such bad wear marks from my upper Stopping pin.

Also check the grub screws, they lock pretty far out, mine are flush.

 

As a very wild guess, since I don‘t know exactly how the plc is programmed, it seams to me, that you have just a bit to less downstroke during calibration or the set screw for indexing and upstroke is set far in.

 

As a next step, I will calibrate my press tomorrow and than run it to bottom with the button. Once the toolhead is bottomed out, i will measure the disdance from shell plate toolhead. I will make a bunch of pictures, so you can measure at the exact same spot. After I will go back to upper position an measure again.

 

As a result we will have a movement window. That should be more or less the same on every press. If we see some significant difference, next step will be to fix that.

 

BTW a bit of flexing of the ram is normal, in the downstroke it is guided, but in the upstroke almost to the end of the stroke, there is no more guide rod, so the ram can tilt. If the ram hits with full power into the stop screw, than  the ram tilts even more.

 

But all that is just a wild guess, it could be something completely different as well.

 

 

[Steyrarms]

Ok, I watched the Video a few mor times, do yourself a favour and record in slow motion as steady as you can, one time with the crank mechanissm and the rear guid rod in the picture and one time with the index mechanism and the crank mechanism in the picture.

 

I was watching the last video about 10 times, to much movement from you in it, but you can clearly see a few times, the clonk does not happen at top position but on its way to it.

 

It is very hard to tell, if it is happening when the rear guide rod exits the bushing, what would indicate a misalignment. Our if it is the Indexing that causes the whole issue. If it is the indexing, you really need to remove the whole assembly with the tire on it. I had to do this once at the very beginning. Jammed a primer, thought brute force will help and endet up bending the arm.... was a pain in the butt, lesson learned  

 

In the M7 comunity there are all the good drawings you will need

[Thetimb]

23 minutes ago, Steyrarms said:

Ok, I watched the Video a few mor times, do yourself a favour and record in slow motion as steady as you can, one time with the crank mechanissm and the rear guid rod in the picture and one time with the index mechanism and the crank mechanism in the picture.

 

I was watching the last video about 10 times, to much movement from you in it, but you can clearly see a few times, the clonk does not happen at top position but on its way to it.

 

It is very hard to tell, if it is happening when the rear guide rod exits the bushing, what would indicate a misalignment. Our if it is the Indexing that causes the whole issue. If it is the indexing, you really need to remove the whole assembly with the tire on it. I had to do this once at the very beginning. Jammed a primer, thought brute force will help and endet up bending the arm.... was a pain in the butt, lesson learned  

 

In the M7 comunity there are all the good drawings you will need

 

 

It for sure is clonking on its way to the top I can confirm. I want to wait on m7 before I start stripping this thing to pieces. 

[slavex]

yup, watching that video it looks like the clunk is happening as the interior guide rod (the one inside the core) is leaving it's bushing. it will be a bit of a PITA to sort out, but the good folks at Mk7 will tell you how to adjust it so that that clunk goes away. 

[slavex]

@Thetimb were you meaning you had sideways primers trying to go down the ramp? and the new bowl fixed that? or just jamming up at the wiper (I get that with the older bowl design if I overfill it). I used to get sideways primers in the disk, when running above 2500/hr. now I don't get them there at all

[Thetimb]

4 hours ago, slavex said:

@Thetimb were you meaning you had sideways primers trying to go down the ramp? and the new bowl fixed that? or just jamming up at the wiper (I get that with the older bowl design if I overfill it). I used to get sideways primers in the disk, when running above 2500/hr. now I don't get them there at all

Jamming up at the wiper. They would get stuck at the wiper. Now if they get stuck there on the new bowl they fall off and get moved out of the way. 

[Steyrarms]

So as promissed here some measurements.

Tool head at this Point is 0.999" thick 

When at the Bottom, from the top of the tool head to the Surface of the press it is 1.7370"

 

This how and where i measure, ensure you are going perfectly vertical, otherwise it would mess up the results

 

 

When the ram is on the top, i got 5.2265" 

 

Same measurement Point as before

 

[Thetimb]

On 6/24/2020 at 9:45 AM, Steyrarms said:

So as promissed here some measurements.

Tool head at this Point is 0.999" thick 

When at the Bottom, from the top of the tool head to the Surface of the press it is 1.7370"

 

 

This how and where i measure, ensure you are going perfectly vertical, otherwise it would mess up the results

 

 

 

 

When the ram is on the top, i got 5.2265" 

 

 

Same measurement Point as before

 

 

 

 

 

I really appreciate the help and taking the pictures. Long story short is it looks like I had an old part on the press that the primer collator rubber bumper was smacking into causing the thud.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/1krkMmL

Edited June 26, 2020 by Thetimb

[Steyrarms]

Great stuff, did you got some help from M7 or did you found it out by yourself?

 

I have not got an answer  on my rather angry post on the M7comunity regarding the primer collator, since I now know what they have changed, it’s much easier for me to argue with them.

[Thetimb]

8 minutes ago, Steyrarms said:

Great stuff, did you got some help from M7 or did you found it out by yourself?

 

I have not got an answer  on my rather angry post on the M7comunity regarding the primer collator, since I now know what they have changed, it’s much easier for me to argue with them.

 

 

I opened a ticket and Misty took care of me. I am still having some vibration issues but its significantly less with that part removed. I think I just have a combination of several issues causing me pain.

 

 

Now at the bottom of the down stroke I can hear a thud. The lower crank appears to be shifting around even though the set screws are tight. 

 

https://imgur.com/D1KxsX7

 

[Steyrarms]

Well it sounds much much better now. I think of you spend some hours you will eventually find out what it is. Once thats solved, she will run like queen of AP press.

 

Did you check the top and bottom distances to?

 

ATB 

Sascha

[Thetimb]

1 hour ago, Steyrarms said:

Well it sounds much much better now. I think of you spend some hours you will eventually find out what it is. Once thats solved, she will run like queen of AP press.

 

Did you check the top and bottom distances to?

 

ATB 

Sascha

 

I am currently troubleshooting with the tool head off and adjusting the index (giant pain in the a**). 
 

I am waiting to hear back from Mark7 about what to do next. 

[slavex]

interesting, I think I still have that part on mine. Gonna check

[Thetimb]

3 hours ago, slavex said:

interesting, I think I still have that part on mine. Gonna check

the rubber bumper on the primer collator was banging on that part. I took it off and everything went away. 
 

apparently that part also stops the press from over indexing. I am going to see if I can adjust it today and get it going. 

[Thetimb]

17 hours ago, Steyrarms said:

Great stuff, did you got some help from M7 or did you found it out by yourself?

 

I have not got an answer  on my rather angry post on the M7comunity regarding the primer collator, since I now know what they have changed, it’s much easier for me to argue with them.

open a ticket with support and they will get you sorted out. 

[slavex]

@Steyrarms the facebook community isn't an official page, Misty and Tom are just there for the hell of it. 

[Thetimb]

1 minute ago, slavex said:

@Steyrarms the facebook community isn't an official page, Misty and Tom are just there for the hell of it. 

@steyarms second this. Open a ticket on their website enter  in your serial and they will get you squared away. They are super busy here with what’s going on in the US. 
 

 

[Thetimb]

So with the help of everyone here and some guidance from Mark7 I think its actually fixed. I haven't run any ammo through it due to time but it seems to be running 90x better. I had to realign the top plate and adjusted that bracket that the onboard primer collator bumper rides on. I also adjusted the index as well. 

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/gVrH59m

 

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by Thetimb