But seriously though....

[RJH]

Why the continued butthurt over pcc? I shot it enough to classify and will probably shoot it a couple more times this year cause i have some 9 ammo to burn, so while it ain't really my bag i don't hate it or anything. We have a few people  who shoot  it here and there at the local matches and they don't seem to slow anything down and our stage designs have changed basically 0 from when it  was pistol only. So why all the pissing and moaning?  If your matches have changed drastically or pcc shooters are taking some inordinately long time, maybe there is a match director issue? Idk, maybe because there are several 3gunners here it was not a big deal to add pccs. So are there any REAL issues that are coming up or is the pcc hate entirely emotionally based?

 

 

[Sarge]

58 minutes ago, RJH said:

Why the continued butthurt over pcc? I shot it enough to classify and will probably shoot it a couple more times this year cause i have some 9 ammo to burn, so while it ain't really my bag i don't hate it or anything. We have a few people  who shoot  it here and there at the local matches and they don't seem to slow anything down and our stage designs have changed basically 0 from when it  was pistol only. So why all the pissing and moaning?  If your matches have changed drastically or pcc shooters are taking some inordinately long time, maybe there is a match director issue? Idk, maybe because there are several 3gunners here it was not a big deal to add pccs. So are there any REAL issues that are coming up or is the pcc hate entirely emotionally based?

 

 

Here we go again.... 

1. Not a handgun.

2. Stages ARE changing. Every stage at my state match had to be proofed by a PCC to eliminate tough leans etc.

3. 3gun is virtually non existent near me so we were dedicated USPSA pistol shooters. PCC definitely slows things down for us.

4. We still cheer when there are no PCC’s on our squads.

5. NO, it is not the MD’s fault.

[HCH]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

Here we go again.... 

1. Not a handgun.

2. Stages ARE changing. Every stage at my state match had to be proofed by a PCC to eliminate tough leans etc.

3. 3gun is virtually non existent near me so we were dedicated USPSA pistol shooters. PCC definitely slows things down for us.

4. We still cheer when there are no PCC’s on our squads.

5. NO, it is not the MD’s fault.

 

1. Who cares

2. Don’t worry about changing stages. Or do. PCC shooters need something to complain about too. 

3. It’s a learning curve that SHOULD correct itself. 

4. Quit being a bitter old man. 

5. I concur. 

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, HCH said:

 

1. Who cares

PLENTY OF US.

4. Quit being a bitter old man. 

I SAID “WE”

 

[happygunner77]

USPSA is a pistol only match? Is that the history of how it started? I've ony been shooting since mid 2015 so dunno the history of this.

[cheby]

I also don't like that increasing number of divisions is diluting the competition. 

[HCH]

56 minutes ago, Sarge said:

 

See reply #4. 

[HCH]

4 minutes ago, cheby said:

I also don't like that increasing number of divisions is diluting the competition. 

 

This one I could get behind. Combine L10, SS, and production, since they’re all the same division anyway. Keep open, limited, PCC, and revolver the same. And throw CO in the trash because it’s pointless. 

[happygunner77]

3 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

This one I could get behind. Combine L10, SS, and production, since they’re all the same division anyway. Keep open, limited, PCC, and revolver the same. And throw CO in the trash because it’s pointless. 

 

If minor only, then yes, but with major PF, no. Prod is unique because of that. L10 major and SS major, 10 vs 8 rds? It won't happen. And who cares anyways, just shoot the division you want to compete in. Why care what others shoot? Why care the diluting? If people want to shoot in a division that's competitive, let them be. More divisions, more options. Freedom. 

[HCH]

3 minutes ago, happygunner77 said:

 

If minor only, then yes, but with major PF, no. Prod is unique because of that. L10 major and SS major, 10 vs 8 rds? It won't happen. And who cares anyways, just shoot the division you want to compete in. Why care what others shoot? Why care the diluting? If people want to shoot in a division that's competitive, let them be. More divisions, more options. Freedom. 

 

Am I the only one out there that could live with an “low capacity” division with 8 round major and 10 round minor? 

 

Ss and production would see no see no difference whatsoever, and the 3 people in the country that shoot L10 would have to make an extra mag change or two.  There could even be a box to limit the size of magwell the three l10 shooters got to use. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by HCH

[Smithcity]

PCCs haven't proven to be a disruption to the sport with regards to larger matches with respect to match wins. Seems for traditional uspsa stages, which require a high degree of gun manipulation, open is still king.

 

I could see pcc evolving overtime. Different stages would need to be designed to fully test the capability of the pcc platform, and wouldnt be appropriate for pistols.

 

In the meantime, let the pcc folks unbag and bag at the safety area, continue watching them be beat by the open shooters, and dont do anything special in stage design to accommodate them, they dont need it.

[Balakay]

I think that some pistol shooters still look at HOA (which really doesn't exist) on PractiScore and get "butthurt" when they get beat by PCC shooters.  

HOA is not a thing.  As an Open shooter, I compare myself to other Open shooters.  If I get beaten by a PCC shooter, it means nothing.  How many times must this dead horse be beaten?  Let it go....

[Hi-Power Jack]

6 hours ago, happygunner77 said:

USPSA is a pistol only match? Is that the history of how it started? 

 

Actually, USPSA started out a 1911 .45 match.     

 

And the people who started it all (Cooper, etc) were APPALLED that others

wanted to join in and shoot USPSA with a  (gasp)   9mm    (gasp).     

 

Then people wanted to run .38 Super for those extra 2 rounds in the mag.     

 

Then some idiot stuck a compensator on the end of their barrel.     

 

Then, to add insult to injury, somebody stuck an electronic sight on their "pistol".     

 

Then, somebody got their gun to hold 30 rounds of ammo.     

 

And all those guys who spent $3,000 building The Perfect .45 had to buy a $5,000 Perfect

.38 Super.     

 

NOW, we all get to buy a $3,000 PCC.     

 

Now everybody is happy until they allow .22 magnums to shoot USPSA, and then another

round of "Gasps: " and then we all run out and buy .22 magnum pistols and carbines.     

[Steve RA]

Very Good !   Hope you made it to the bathroom before sitting to compose all that !   

[B_RAD]

Am I the only one that doesn't care either way?  Most people I know that shoot PCC, do so because they get thier butts kicked when they shoot pistols, but I don't care. Let them. Though, I do shoot with a couple that ate pretty stout at PCC!  I like watching them tear it up! If it gets more people shooting, that's good IMO!

 

maybe I'm still new enough that I don't see the stages being affected to accommodate them?

 

 

[Sarge]

7 hours ago, HCH said:

. And throw CO in the trash because it’s pointless. 

Don’t be a bitter old woman.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Actually, USPSA started out a 1911 .45 match.     

 

And the people who started it all (Cooper, etc) were APPALLED that others

wanted to join in and shoot USPSA with a  (gasp)   9mm    (gasp).     

 

Then people wanted to run .38 Super for those extra 2 rounds in the mag.     

 

Then some idiot stuck a compensator on the end of their barrel.     

 

Then, to add insult to injury, somebody stuck an electronic sight on their "pistol".     

 

Then, somebody got their gun to hold 30 rounds of ammo.     

 

And all those guys who spent $3,000 building The Perfect .45 had to buy a $5,000 Perfect

.38 

And what do those all have in common? Exactly, they were still handguns!

[HCH]

2 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Don’t be a bitter old woman.

 

CO is my favorite division, but I’m willing to sacrifice it for the greater good. 

 

Pretty heroic, if you ask me. 

[RJH]

31 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

Am I the only one that doesn't care either way?  Most people I know that shoot PCC, do so because they get thier butts kicked when they shoot pistols, but I don't care. Let them. Though, I do shoot with a couple that ate pretty stout at PCC!  I like watching them tear it up! If it gets more people shooting, that's good IMO!

 

maybe I'm still new enough that I don't see the stages being affected to accommodate them?

 

 

 

This is exactly my thinking, and i have been doing this for a while. Like i said in my OP, in my small part of the world the only effect pcc has had on a match is an extra start position and people have another option on what  they  would like to shoot.  I was not a proponent of the new divisions when they came out, but really they not have affected me and the people i shoot with AT ALL. And i regularly shoot on a squad with people in just about every division, including pcc and co. 

 

  If you look at sarges 5 points:

1 doesn't matter 

2 is a direct result of #5

3 if it slows you down, maybe you are doing it wrong. Cause I know it that it doesn't have to from experience 

4 seems emotionally based?

5 i think the MD might look at things a little differently 

[HCH]

1 hour ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

Actually, USPSA started out a 1911 .45 match.     

 

And the people who started it all (Cooper, etc) were APPALLED that others

wanted to join in and shoot USPSA with a  (gasp)   9mm    (gasp).     

 

Then people wanted to run .38 Super for those extra 2 rounds in the mag.     

 

Then some idiot stuck a compensator on the end of their barrel.     

 

Then, to add insult to injury, somebody stuck an electronic sight on their "pistol".     

 

Then, somebody got their gun to hold 30 rounds of ammo.     

 

And all those guys who spent $3,000 building The Perfect .45 had to buy a $5,000 Perfect

.38 Super.     

 

NOW, we all get to buy a $3,000 PCC.     

 

Now everybody is happy until they allow .22 magnums to shoot USPSA, and then another

round of "Gasps: " and then we all run out and buy .22 magnum pistols and carbines.     

 

The only constant thing in nature is change.... 

 

biology class actually paid off!

[RJH]

3 minutes ago, Sarge said:

And what do those all have in common? Exactly, they were still handguns!

 

The other thing that they have in common is that the sport has evolved far from its origins, there was probably wailing and gnashing of teeth just about every time,  and a few people  were so emotionally attached to the way things were they had a rough time moving forward and accepting change

[MemphisMechanic]

11 hours ago, Sarge said:

Stages ARE changing. Every stage at my state match had to be proofed by a PCC to eliminate tough leans etc.

 

Why?

 

Around here stages haven’t changed at all. At least once a match I have to swap the rifle to the oppsite shoulder *AND* still shoot falling out of bounds, or very close to doing so.

 

Mind elaborating on that?

 

[RJH]

1 minute ago, MemphisMechanic said:

 

Why?

 

Around here stages haven’t changed at all. At least once a match I have to swap the rifle to the oppsite shoulder *AND* still shoot falling out of bounds, or very close to doing so.

 

Mind elaborating on that?

 

 

I was wondering the same thing.  Here a legal stage is set and the shooter deals with it regardless of what their gun is. They are equal opportunity screwers haha 

[Stony Lane]

PCC is fun!  I shot numerous steel matches and a USPSA match.  However, as soon as possible in an area, PCC should evolve into stand alone matches.  In order to truly test the platform you need tighter shots, smaller targets and longer distances.  Maybe even some "practical" magazine limits.  

[Hi-Power Jack]

3 minutes ago, Stony Lane said:

  In order to truly test the platform you need tighter shots, smaller targets and longer distances.   

 

That's exactly what I expected when I attended my only Nationals;

 

Shooting OPEN, I presumed we'd have some smaller targets and longer distances ?    NOPE

 

Shot with the Glocks, for God's sake.

 

What a surprise that was.