rowdyb Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Like many, I bet you got the email last night from CZC about pre orders on the Shadow 2. And as I'm sure you know a place I'm associated with has taken deposits on them for a while now as well. But now the official price is out in the open, $1,300 for the msrp. How do you feel about this price? The regular SP01 Shadow that's been the basis for soo many of us in Production started as an 880 dollar gun. Now you're starting at a price 400 dollars greater. To me, it will all be answered when I get my hands on one and shoot it. If I don't have to do anything to it, then money saved. But if I take it as a baseline and then still do $600 worth of stuff to it.. I don't know. But then again, a new AccuShadow with out much done to it is $1,800..... What do y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Rowdy, you put a lot more rounds downrange than I do, have you worn a CZ out yet? I'd be interested to know what the usable life of the pistol is, so I could figure a good depreciation number per round. It's common to mix up expenses and assets and talk about a pistol like an expense, but it's really an asset. When you buy gun, the expenses are the taxes, fees, and that premium you lose when you drive a new car off the lot, but the basis of the gun has merely changed from cash to gun, then as the gun loses value with age and use, that loss is depreciation expense. If a $1,000 gun is completely worthless after 100,000 rounds the depreciation cost per round would be $0.01, but I suspect a Shadow with 100,000 rounds through it would be worth at least $500, making the cost per round $0.005. With a reloaded 9mm round costing between ten and 20 cents, choices in reloading components have a far more significant impact on your bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 16 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said: With a reloaded 9mm round costing between ten and 20 cents, choices in reloading components have a far more significant impact on your bottom line. I agree. The only difference is that you aren't generally buying the cost of the gun in reloading components every time you buy the components. The cost of the gun is generally a one time large expenditure, whereas the components expenditures are broken up in segments over the life of the gun...People find it easier to rationalize the reloading cost when it's broken down into smaller chunks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 I guess it depends on how much work you think the Regular Shadow SP-01 needed? I ran mine with simply a change of grips and springs, for the Shadow 2 I kept the grips but changed the springs on it and have shot 3 matches so far and love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darqusoull13 Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Price doesn't matter. Things like the front and back strap checkering and grip geometry improvements (depending on your hand) are worth a test since I can't change these in Production rules. A Melonite treatment on a S1 would cost ~$200-$300 depending on who does it, plus turnaround time. After shooting it, I'll figure out if I want to keep the S1 or S2, sell the other, and get a backup in whichever flavor I prefer. If they are more accurate and shoot better, then it's a win. 25k rounds in training plus travel, match fees and spare parts will likely outweigh the cost of the Shadow by at least 4-fold anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said: I agree. The only difference is that you aren't generally buying the cost of the gun in reloading components every time you buy the components. The cost of the gun is generally a one time large expenditure, whereas the components expenditures are broken up in segments over the life of the gun...People find it easier to rationalize the reloading cost when it's broken down into smaller chunks... Speak for yourself! Last time I bought primers I bought 60K, and 12K Montana Golds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 Darqu, so far I don't think any of the Shadow 2s are melonite frames. I think they wanted to build them that way but had trouble, so they put the regular old Shadow polycoat on them. So far. (would like for someone to prove me wrong, because I too want a melonite S2.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, rowdyb said: Like many, I bet you got the email last night from CZC about pre orders on the Shadow 2. And as I'm sure you know a place I'm associated with has taken deposits on them for a while now as well. But now the official price is out in the open, $1,300 for the msrp. Edited November 4, 2016 by cheby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 24 minutes ago, kneelingatlas said: Speak for yourself! Last time I bought primers I bought 60K, and 12K Montana Golds Still not the cost of a custom Limited gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 4, 2016 Share Posted November 4, 2016 15 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said: Still not the cost of a custom Limited gun... I suppose I do have a different perspective than most Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerlrrp Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Interesting question. What is the customer getting? 1) New frame; same investment casting...not worth more money. 2) Checkering; There is some value here if you don't dig grip tape. (+$75?) 3) Adjustable rear sight; Also some value. (+$50) 4) Redesign of the magazine button; I could go either way on this one. (+$10) 5) Aluminum grips; I'll probably ditch this ASAP but that's a personal preference (+$40) 6) Thin safeties; Again, this could go either way (shouldn't be an up charge). 7) Additional slide machining....industrial design as far as I'm concerned and followed the P07/P09 "lines" on a "value" pistol. What am I missing? Don't get me wrong, I'll probably get one but I think $1300 is overpriced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstone Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I had the opportunity last weekend to shoot a couple of mags through a S2 2 weeks ago. the checkering is wonderful and the mag release great! the biggest thing was the difference in reset. It is longer than my S1 that was the difference I found. of course I do have the short reset installed. will I buy one, yes, immediately probably not. but it was cool to play with the new hot gun out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamge Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 husker, it is a fraction of an inch longer in frame and slide and barrel, that's gotta cost CZ a few extra dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlvrDragon50 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I think I'm gonna try to pick up a used one from someone who is maybe disappointed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slavex Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 Nitride frames will likely be what you guys are going to get in the USA. There are some in Canada as well. The polycoated black and ubran gray ones are nitrited as well, but polycoated over top. I think they are worth the increased price. The base price was supposed to be 1000 Euro, but that was for 2016. The only things I've changed on mine are springs. Although I am probably going to change the front sight as I find the stock one too thick. We'll see how that experiment goes shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSLPCZ Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 9 hours ago, huskerlrrp said: Interesting question. What is the customer getting? 1) New frame; same investment casting...not worth more money. 2) Checkering; There is some value here if you don't dig grip tape. (+$75?) 3) Adjustable rear sight; Also some value. (+$50) 4) Redesign of the magazine button; I could go either way on this one. (+$10) 5) Aluminum grips; I'll probably ditch this ASAP but that's a personal preference (+$40) 6) Thin safeties; Again, this could go either way (shouldn't be an up charge). 7) Additional slide machining....industrial design as far as I'm concerned and followed the P07/P09 "lines" on a "value" pistol. What am I missing? Don't get me wrong, I'll probably get one but I think $1300 is overpriced. I see it as a companion to the TS and same price. CZ doesn't have a factory comp gun in DA/SA for production class so this fills a hole, no? Looks like they are after the Stock II/III market. I'm sure there will be a worked $1,600 S2 platform from CZC in the not-to-distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) John-I'm a strong proponent of having two guns, a dry fire/practice/back up gun and a competition gun. Rotating them to spread out the wear. I get a new gun every year and rotate them down. Before when I didn't do this a gun started to feel "different" in 50-80k rounds. I don't want to say shot out, but it wasn't the same even with just changing springs. I don't mean this as a discussion of all we spend on shooting, I know everything else but the gun costs more. Oh, how I know. But the idea of a (hopefully dominant) gun for Production starting at 1.4 times the amount of its wildly popular predecessor.... My personal opinion is that I hope it just needs some polish, hand fit disco and some springs and it will be good to go. That'd be awesome and definitely worth 1.300 to me. Edited November 5, 2016 by rowdyb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 5, 2016 Author Share Posted November 5, 2016 VZ grips are $70 if you make that change. If you have a fixed sight rear Shadow then making it adjustable by milling the lpa cut and adding a Kensight or the like and that's a $300 modification easy. As someone who has been going through Shadows and making for customers I know well what goes into making one nice, both in parts and labor. So I'm curious if it will be $400 more of a gun. Again, I really hope it is. Sadly it will cost me more money if it is hahahhaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cousineddie Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 19 hours ago, Chili said: I guess it depends on how much work you think the Regular Shadow SP-01 needed? I ran mine with simply a change of grips and springs, for the Shadow 2 I kept the grips but changed the springs on it and have shot 3 matches so far and love it. I'm debating jumping on the pre-order, and since you have first hand experience with this gun, I would like to know if the Shadow 2 have the same internal components as an SP-01 shadow? What I mean is are the firing pin, trigger, trigger bar, hammer, hammer strut, disconnector, sear and cage, springs, etc interchangeable between shadow 2 and the older models? Or are these guns a completely new design with all new dimensions inside and out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tok36 Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 ^^Interesting question. I have not heard much regarding the parts compatibility of the Shadow and Shadow II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 I'd agree that it is worth it if a bunch of work doesn't need to be done to the new Shadow 2. How many reasonably stock shadows have you even seen. I looked for one for a year and never found one. I ended up owning 2 SP-01s and a Automatic Accuracy Shadow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted November 5, 2016 Share Posted November 5, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, rowdyb said: John-I'm a strong proponent of having two guns, a dry fire/practice/back up gun and a competition gun. Rotating them to spread out the wear. I get a new gun every year and rotate them down. Before when I didn't do this a gun started to feel "different" in 50-80k rounds. I don't want to say shot out, but it wasn't the same even with just changing springs. I don't mean this as a discussion of all we spend on shooting, I know everything else but the gun costs more. Oh, how I know. But the idea of a (hopefully dominant) gun for Production starting at 1.4 times the amount of its wildly popular predecessor.... My personal opinion is that I hope it just needs some polish, hand fit disco and some springs and it will be good to go. That'd be awesome and definitely worth 1.300 to me. Interesting observation about the guns starting to feel different. I'm at the same point with my primary practice gun, which has around 50,000 rounds on it along with lots of dry fire. It just feels different than my other two, smoother and less mechanical feeling to the action. I'm about to pull it apart and inspect and replace anything that needs it. Edited November 5, 2016 by bthoefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B_RAD Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Dang, not sure I'd want to have two guns, buying a new one every year. At least not at $1300+ each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullets Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Wow only 1300 msrp? I was actually expecting more. that's less than I got my shadow for...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted November 6, 2016 Author Share Posted November 6, 2016 Man I can't wait to see one in person and get an informed opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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