1911 Provisional Division

[Gary Stevens]

Those shooting ESP with a 9mm or 38 Super can also play if they are using a 1911. They will be scored minor power factor though, which I may shoot myself due to the round count you find at a lot of IPSC matches. The division allows for choices in this area, which I think makes it kind of neat.

There are some specific rules that people should be aware of. If you are interested, I'll send you the specifics. USPSA wil also have the rules posted soon.

[MikeFoley]

GunGeek,

A real gun? I'll shoot ss with you and then switch guns and do it again if you like. Maybe then we can do revovler and production too? It isn't hard to get me to shoot anything, especially after the tournament season. Look out for 2006, the year of the Single Stack!

[eerw]

There are some specific rules that people should be aware of.  If you are interested, I'll send you the specifics.  USPSA wil also have the rules posted soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gary..

would be interested in the specifics..thanks

[Ron Ankeny]

Not to drift the thread but I think US1.1.5.1 is the most abused rule in the book. With three 10 round mag divisions and revolver, it would be nice if course designers at the club level did make an effort to follow the 9 round rule.

[Flexmoney]

So, it's not a single-stack division, it is a 1911 division?

[ChuckS]

So, it's not a single-stack division, it is a 1911 division?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was wondering when you were going to speak up!

[Cameron]

Gary,

Can you post the rules of the division so we all have an understanding of the idea?

Also, any reason why clubs could not start the SS division this year??

Cameron

[dwt]

I'm always glad to see more opportunitys to shoot , however in my 30+ years in the shooting sports, It always seems the more classes you add the less shooters you end up with ?

Dale

[Gary Stevens]

USPSA will have them up on the webpage soon. My laptop that has the document on it, is currently dead. If I can revive it, I'll try to post them somewhere.

[sfinney]

Gary,

Can you post the rules of the division so we all have an understanding of the idea?

Also, any reason why clubs could not start the SS division this year??

Cameron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second this one.... we need to get clubs running this sooner, now is a good time to attract and keep the crowd this might lure, next year might be a day late and a dollar short - any reason clubs can't start using the rules this year, informally?

[Gary Stevens]

No reason at all. I hope they do start this year. I am working with a fellow to maybe use the rules at a tournament later this year.

My DSL is dead, not my laptop. When I can get off this dial up an use my other laptop, I'll post something.

[itento]

When I first read this post I got the same feeling in my stomach that I got when I saw the first pictures in front Sight of 11 yr olds shooting matches. But, just like my initial shock of that program has turned to full support, I think the idea of a SS division has merit. We are a brand new USPSA club (affiliation paperwork just turned in), and fairly small. We will be running our matches immediately after our IDPA matchs using much of the same stage setups (except USPSA targets, freestyle, USPSA rulebook). Last Sunday we ran our first match and it was well accepted (wound up with 5 new USPSA membership applications). Because our club has several revolver and .45 SS enthusiasts (SSR and CSP), I want to make sure that the guys that want to shoot their IDPA guns feel they are values members.

While Revolvers are a seperate topic, after researching the rulebook, it just doesn't seem the .45 ( or any caliber) SS guys really have a good place. They can't compete in production, and even if they could, who would want to shoot a major pf 45 against a 9mm. Of course some of the SS issue could be answered if all SS SA guns could compete in production and production had major pf. While they can compete in Limited 10, they will be up against semi-race guns that aren't allowed in IDPA CSP.

Of course, the other issue is the 9 shot ( or more) strings some course designers love. I would vote to delete that from the rulebook and insert that "COFs should be designed which minimize an advantage of one division over another. I personally think 5 and 6 shot strings from a firing position should really be emphasized, and there should be very few of them. Most engagements should be from freestyle shooting areas which minimize dead time reloads.

[kbear38S]

This just sucks. When is the USPSA going to come out with a single action 9mm only division. We're losing shooters because we're not willing to provide them with a place where they can feel competitve. There are just too many shooters without their own divisions. We should try it and let the market decide.

[Gary Stevens]

Mr Bears38, your post doesn't make sense to me, but I am a public education result

You speak of letting the market decide. That is exactly what we are doing. A three year trial. The members (market) will decide if it is a good thing or not. If they decide it isn't good for the organization, it dies a quiet death.

I don't understand your animosity. I designed an experiment that gives the membership the total say in it's outcome. For once, USPSA, did not force anything down anyone's throat. It is totally optional, and totally experimental.

And by the way we are reaching new membership record numbers, not losing.

Regardless, the train is out of the station and the membeship, which runs this organization in the final counting, will make their voices heard one way or the other.

[Ted Murphy]

My single stack shooting IDPA friends who made it out for the Topton match Larry is speaking about totally raved about it.

It was a very good idea for them to try this.

Ted

[JakeMartens]

I think it will attract the pissed off folks from IDPA that didn't want to buy 10 round mags for their single stacks.

Is it only for single action single stacks?

[Gary Stevens]

People keep using the term "single stack" which years ago used to be short hand for the 1911. Remember the name of the division the "1911 Provisional Division". This venture is directed to the 1911, not just any pistol that uses a single column magazine.

[dwt]

This is not going to make to the '' single stack'' guys feel any better.

Dale

[Jim Norman]

I think Bear was speaking tongue in cheek. We need a SASS9MM division and maybe a seperate division for each make, caliber, action type and color of shock-buff.

While I feel that we have enough divisions, I am not totally against the Single Stack division. If it is supposed to solve the "I can't compete against the L-10 Racers with my old stock 1911" guys, maybve we should mandate that the guns can't be Open class sans comps and optics? Sort of an out of the box or "Production" Single Action Single Stack" division? Sort of what Limited was supposed to have originally been, but wasn't?

If teh IDPA guys we are trying to attract want to shoot their "Stock" guns and this is why we are doing this, then we'd best make sure that this is what we are really doing.

Jim

[springy]

Start working on your club leadership now, and tell them you want this sandbox to play in.  Hopefully they will be responsive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a club president, USPSA has not notified clubs about this, but you're telling the membership to ask for it? That should make for some interesting shooter's meetings. michael

[itento]

Late last night I added a Poll to our club website (www.tristategunclub.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=197). The poll question was:

"Are you in favor of a 1911 .45 Division at TSGC?" with options of:

No, leave well enough alone

Yes, but not until official 1-1-06 date

Yes, as soon as we can

Don't care, I'm not going to shoot my CDP pistol in USPSA match anyway

Don't care, I'll support what the majority wants

Other, explain in posting.

I know its a small sample, but so far this morning the four opinions cast were all: Yes, as soon as we can.

My only concern right now is how to get scores into EZWin Score.

[sfinney]

And as I understand it this would not be a ".45" Division... if the current Single Stack Classic rules are used, Major caliber .45 or .40 would be restricted to 8 rounds, minor .40 would be allowed 9 in the mag, 9mm/38 Super up to ten? Or something like that. Right?

(intent being to allow the minor guns 1 or 2 more rounds to offset their minor scoring somewhat..... if every caliber was restricted to 8 it wouldn't make much sense to shoot minor... this makes it at least a toss-up maybe - Not so sure that major .45 with 8 will make more sense than 10 in minor 38 Super.... with todays high round count stages.... its not just the shot to shot recovery of minor vs. major , but 2 extra rounds will in most case probably mean less reloads required, per stage... now if the stages were all designed for 8 round neutral, it wouldn't be a big deal.... but we're talking 32 round field courses here... )

[MarkS_A18138]

Sent out an email to all our members this morning and have had very positive feed back. One question to them was do we start it now and every answer has been YES!!! One thing to keep in mind is in our area we have 2 major SS matches a year! Last year was our first try and we had 30 shooters so in December we tried it at our indoor range and had little more that 30 shooters. Hope they can get the scoring program taken care of.

[Schutzenmeister]

Sort of an out of the box or "Production" Single Action Single Stack" division?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure I'd want to go THERE, Jim. Remember all the hoopla over the PD approved list on the IPSC GV? I'd say keep it any 1911 SS Limited gun (sort of a subset of limited) and let it go at that ... Much easier to police!

Also ... Keep in mind that if we don't specify SS, that TECHNICALLY the S_I guns are all 1911 by design despite their 2011 designation. The ONLY functional difference is the FAT grip which allows for a double stack mag.

[SteveZ]

I'd say keep it any 1911 SS Limited gun (sort of a subset of limited) and let it go at that ... Much easier to police!

There's a post on the 1911Forum that outlines the rules for the proposed SSD divison...I don't know if these are real or bogus (I presume real). If they are real...my 1911 SS L10 gun is illegal (tungsten guiderod).