motosapiens Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 best troll ever. really had me going for a few minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, If you are the R.O. and a competitor goes prone for a stage and places a loaded Glock on the ground. What would you do? That depends on whether he de-cocked it before placing it on the ground....you guys are missing the point...it says hammer down OR de-cocked...the only time a Glock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber after the trigger has been pulled...Semantics? Yes...but be that as it may, it is not de-cocked until that moment... The pistol is NOT cocked on a striker fired guns...what it is is that the striker is now resting on the trigger bar ready to be pulled as in DA condition...pulling the trigger does not release the firing pin from a cocked position...pulling the trigger pulls the striker back to a point which the trigger bar then releases the striker...completely different than a SA condition. So it's not true that the only time a Clock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber... Can you fire a Glock once the trigger has been pulled, without resetting the striker? Once you reset the striker, it is partially cocked, IE, the trigger does not move it very much rearward, but move it does, and since the trigger does not move the striker the full rearward movement with a pull (the slide moves the striker rearward with the cycling of the gun), then that striker is pre-loaded...to 70% or whatever....partially cocked. same with some guns with a hammer that has been decocked to a half cocked position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, If you are the R.O. and a competitor goes prone for a stage and places a loaded Glock on the ground. What would you do? That depends on whether he de-cocked it before placing it on the ground....you guys are missing the point...it says hammer down OR de-cocked...the only time a Glock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber after the trigger has been pulled...Semantics? Yes...but be that as it may, it is not de-cocked until that moment... The pistol is NOT cocked on a striker fired guns...what it is is that the striker is now resting on the trigger bar ready to be pulled as in DA condition...pulling the trigger does not release the firing pin from a cocked position...pulling the trigger pulls the striker back to a point which the trigger bar then releases the striker...completely different than a SA condition. So it's not true that the only time a Clock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber... Can you fire a Glock once the trigger has been pulled, without resetting the striker? Once you reset the striker, it is partially cocked, IE, the trigger does not move it very much rearward, but move it does, and since the trigger does not move the striker the full rearward movement with a pull (the slide moves the striker rearward with the cycling of the gun), then that striker is pre-loaded...to 70% or whatever....partially cocked. same with some guns with a hammer that has been decocked to a half cocked position And is half cocked equal to de-cocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 He wants to win, he wants to win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, If you are the R.O. and a competitor goes prone for a stage and places a loaded Glock on the ground. What would you do? That depends on whether he de-cocked it before placing it on the ground....you guys are missing the point...it says hammer down OR de-cocked...the only time a Glock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber after the trigger has been pulled...Semantics? Yes...but be that as it may, it is not de-cocked until that moment... The pistol is NOT cocked on a striker fired guns...what it is is that the striker is now resting on the trigger bar ready to be pulled as in DA condition...pulling the trigger does not release the firing pin from a cocked position...pulling the trigger pulls the striker back to a point which the trigger bar then releases the striker...completely different than a SA condition. So it's not true that the only time a Clock is de-cocked is on an empty chamber... Can you fire a Glock once the trigger has been pulled, without resetting the striker? Once you reset the striker, it is partially cocked, IE, the trigger does not move it very much rearward, but move it does, and since the trigger does not move the striker the full rearward movement with a pull (the slide moves the striker rearward with the cycling of the gun), then that striker is pre-loaded...to 70% or whatever....partially cocked. same with some guns with a hammer that has been decocked to a half cocked position And is half cocked equal to de-cocked? when using a decocker, yes...it satisfied the rule requirement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Damn. Bob beat me to it. As I was catching up I wanted to ask if you see any similarity to the decocker guns that lower the hammer to less-than-fully-decocked? Would you have them drop the mag, clear the chamber and dry-fire before grounding the gun, or would lowering the hammer onto a loaded chamber make you more comfortable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy wins, ban all striker fired guns from USPSA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 He wants to win, he wants to win... until he shows me the rule/s to back his statements, he won't win... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frgood Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 best troll ever. really had me going for a few minutes. heh heh - I think we should focus if a basketball player falls down on the ball, how it is an automatically 'Travelling' if they get up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Andy, As you yourself stated in post #103, there is a very significant OR between 10.5.3.4 and 10.5.3.5. If either one is satisfied, how can you possibly DQ someone for not complying with both? It's an OR. Not an AND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Damn. Bob beat me to it. As I was catching up I wanted to ask if you see any similarity to the decocker guns that lower the hammer to less-than-fully-decocked? Would you have them drop the mag, clear the chamber and dry-fire before grounding the gun, or would lowering the hammer onto a loaded chamber make you more comfortable? Glocks don't have a de-cocker...And Mark, simply going by the rules...hammer down or de-cocked...while there has been a ruling about using a de-cocker model with an external hammer and it been approved, there has not been a ruling about Glocks being partially cocked...Follow the rules...de-cocked. This wouldn't affect me in anyway... I shoot a CZ Shadow in production... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 This wouldn't affect me in anyway... I shoot a CZ Shadow in production... The truth comes out! Grumpy wants to ban striker fired guns to eliminate the competition. After all, everyone knows Glocks are better than CZs for production! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Andy, As you yourself stated in post #103, there is a very significant OR between 10.5.3.4 and 10.5.3.5. If either one is satisfied, how can you possibly DQ someone for not complying with both? It's an OR. Not an AND. I'm saying that even the ready condition is suspect...8.1.2.2 “Double action” – chamber loaded, hammer fully down or de-cocked. Flex posted this earlier...5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective action shall be made. Take for instance an XD ( I know different animal, but perhaps the analogy will work). They have an externally visible pin on the back face of the gun, showing you whether it is cocked or not. Per the above rule, if you saw someone walking around, with that gun in their holster, with the pin visible, would you escort them to a suitable range or safe area for corrective action? What difference in that situation would there be for a Glock, other than you wouldn't be able to tell that it was cocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Damn. Bob beat me to it. As I was catching up I wanted to ask if you see any similarity to the decocker guns that lower the hammer to less-than-fully-decocked? Would you have them drop the mag, clear the chamber and dry-fire before grounding the gun, or would lowering the hammer onto a loaded chamber make you more comfortable? Glocks don't have a de-cocker...And Mark, simply going by the rules...hammer down or de-cocked...while there has been a ruling about using a de-cocker model with an external hammer and it been approved, there has not been a ruling about Glocks being partially cocked...Follow the rules...de-cocked. This wouldn't affect me in anyway... I shoot a CZ Shadow in production... 8.1.5.2 “Double Action” means activation of the trigger causes more than a single action to occur (i.e. the hammer or striker rises or retracts, then falls)... That is what the striker does in a Glock...seems like the rule addresses the Glock to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Andy, As you yourself stated in post #103, there is a very significant OR between 10.5.3.4 and 10.5.3.5. If either one is satisfied, how can you possibly DQ someone for not complying with both? It's an OR. Not an AND. I'm saying that even the ready condition is suspect...8.1.2.2 Double action chamber loaded, hammer fully down or de-cocked.Flex posted this earlier...5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective action shall be made. Take for instance an XD ( I know different animal, but perhaps the analogy will work). They have an externally visible pin on the back face of the gun, showing you whether it is cocked or not. Per the above rule, if you saw someone walking around, with that gun in their holster, with the pin visible, would you escort them to a suitable range or safe area for corrective action? What difference in that situation would there be for a Glock, other than you wouldn't be able to tell that it was cocked? During the COF the gun is not Hammer down,the discussion is about during the course of fire putting a,gun on the ground, not waking around with an unloaded holstered gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... If it's a loaded start and you are the R.O. I am shooting a Glock, what is your range command when I am at the line and the range is clear and ready for the next shooter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) This wouldn't affect me in anyway... I shoot a CZ Shadow in production... The truth comes out! Grumpy wants to ban striker fired guns to eliminate the competition. After all, everyone knows Glocks are better than CZs for production! Not everyone. Edited May 20, 2016 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... see my post right before yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... see my post right before yours...I'm not disputing that...in fact I pointed that out well back in this thread. What I am disputing is whether a Glock is de-cocked at any other time other than ULSC, after the trigger is pulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... see my post right before yours...I'm not disputing that...in fact I pointed that out well back in this thread. What I am disputing is whether a Glock is de-cocked at any other time other than ULSC, after the trigger is pulled.Does a Glock have to be decocked during the COF before the ULSC? Edited May 20, 2016 by bret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... that is where your excellent troll fails. you are trying to put a round peg in a square hole, and although it is funny as heck, and a bunch of us actually took you seriously, it is quite clear to any sentient being that a glock is NOT a double action pistol by uspsa rules. It would be awesome to not let any glocks start the COF at a major match tho, and just tell them 'grumpy said so'. lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA...see my post right before yours...I'm not disputing that...in fact I pointed that out well back in this thread. What I am disputing is whether a Glock is de-cocked at any other time other than ULSC, after the trigger is pulled.Does a Glock have to be decocked during the COF before the ULSC?Not unless a condition warrants it to be de-cocked before the ULSC command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 No, I don't...and no one would either....but the point remains, that pistol is cocked...Technically, by the rules, you can't start a competitor using a striker fired gun on a loaded start... I saw your earlier post, but show me support of that definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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