bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA...see my post right before yours...I'm not disputing that...in fact I pointed that out well back in this thread. What I am disputing is whether a Glock is de-cocked at any other time other than ULSC, after the trigger is pulled.Does a Glock have to be decocked during the COF before the ULSC?Not unless a condition warrants it to be de-cocked before the ULSC command. Does intentionally placing it on the ground during a COF, require it to be decocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, Where does it say in the rules during the COF a striker fired gun has to be decocked as you say? Bret, it says DA guns must be de-cocked...not striker...Since a Glock is not a single action, and it's not a selective action, what else does that leave? DA... that is where your excellent troll fails. you are trying to put a round peg in a square hole, and although it is funny as heck, and a bunch of us actually took you seriously, it is quite clear to any sentient being that a glock is NOT a double action pistol by uspsa rules.It would be awesome to not let any glocks start the COF at a major match tho, and just tell them 'grumpy said so'. lulz. There are only 3 action types for UPSA...Single, Double, or Selective...where does the Glock fall then? You tell me Single, then it can't be shot in Production. ..You tell me double, and it's cocked...we both know it's not a selective action... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 BTW...you may be onto something here. I'm trying to boil it down. I'm thinking the definition of "decocked" might be the focal point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) There are only 3 action types for UPSA...Single, Double, or Selective...where does the Glock fall then? You tell me Single, then it can't be shot in Production. ..You tell me double, and it's cocked...we both know it's not a selective action... Glock is striker fired...falls into the DA category where it does mention the action of the striker - rule 8.1.5.2...see my previous posts...and according to the rule, decocked can be in a half cocked position Edited May 20, 2016 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 There are only 3 action types for UPSA...Single, Double, or Selective...where does the Glock fall then? You tell me Single, then it can't be shot in Production. ..You tell me double, and it's cocked...we both know it's not a selective action...Glock is striker fired...falls into the DA category where it does mention the action of the striker - rule 8.1.5.2...see my previous posts...and according to the rule, decocked can be in a half cocked position Half cocked is only applicable to guns with a de-cocker...Again, Glocks don't have a decocker...tell someone with CZ SP01 Shadow that they can start from half cocked....it doesn't apply to guns that don't have that ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, When the trigger is pulled on a Glock, isn't the striker being 'cocked' and then it falls to fire a round if in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) There are only 3 action types for UPSA...Single, Double, or Selective...where does the Glock fall then? You tell me Single, then it can't be shot in Production. ..You tell me double, and it's cocked...we both know it's not a selective action...Glock is striker fired...falls into the DA category where it does mention the action of the striker - rule 8.1.5.2...see my previous posts...and according to the rule, decocked can be in a half cocked position Half cocked is only applicable to guns with a de-cocker...Again, Glocks don't have a decocker...tell someone with CZ SP01 Shadow that they can start from half cocked....it doesn't apply to guns that don't have that ability. Again, the Glock and other striker fired guns have been approved as DA guns since the striker has to move rearward before it is released to go forward. No where does it say that a Glock is "half-cocked" - those were YOUR words only...rule 8.1.5.2 covers that!!!!!! Edited May 20, 2016 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Notice how the striker spring is already compressed, and the pull of the trigger compresses it slightly more...and after firing, how the reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it...The striker stays in front of the block, until the movement of the slide resets the striker. If the slide does not move rearward, the striker does not reset, and the gun can't be fired because it is not cocked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 There are only 3 action types for UPSA...Single, Double, or Selective...where does the Glock fall then? You tell me Single, then it can't be shot in Production. ..You tell me double, and it's cocked...we both know it's not a selective action...Glock is striker fired...falls into the DA category where it does mention the action of the striker - rule 8.1.5.2...see my previous posts...and according to the rule, decocked can be in a half cocked position Half cocked is only applicable to guns with a de-cocker...Again, Glocks don't have a decocker...tell someone with CZ SP01 Shadow that they can start from half cocked....it doesn't apply to guns that don't have that ability. Again, the Glock and other striker fired guns have been approved as DA guns since the striker has to move rearward before it is released to go forward. No where does it say that a Glock is "half-cocked" - those were YOUR words only...rule 8.1.5.2 covers that!!!!!!Contrare...those were your words. I said partially cocked, as a Glock does not have a de-cocker ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, The trigger is cocking it, when it moves rearward. The striker is set, not cocked like a double action gun, when the slide is forward and the trigger is in the ready position. USPSA defines it as double action because it is moving the striker, the rule explains it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I'm thinking the definition of "decocked" might be the focal point. Agreed. Clearly a glock or other striker gun is always considered decocked, otherwise they would be illegal to even use. Seems to me they are similar to DAO guns like (i think) sigs LEM trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 You guys keep feeding the troll. If you don't stop, he's going to keep on going, forever, until we have a 50-page, 1250-post thread like PCC... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 You guys keep feeding the troll. If you don't stop, he's going to keep on going, forever, until we have a 50-page, 1250-post thread like PCC... As you add to the count...lol. BTW...it's not a troll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, The trigger is cocking it, when it moves rearward. The striker is set, not cocked like a double action gun, when the slide is forward and the trigger is in the ready position. USPSA defines it as double action because it is moving the striker, the rule explains it. Bret, watch the animation I posted above. The trigger is not cocking the striker, it is merely moving it backwards slightly, and then lets go. The trigger is merely completing the act of cocking that the slide started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Notice how the striker spring is already compressed, and the pull of the trigger compresses it slightly more...and after firing, how the reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it...The striker stays in front of the block, until the movement of the slide resets the striker. If the slide does not move rearward, the striker does not reset, and the gun can't be fired because it is not cocked... The gun can't be fired because the striker is not reset, not cocked... YOU said it was cocked, not I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I'm thinking the definition of "decocked" might be the focal point.Agreed. Clearly a glock or other striker gun is always considered decocked, otherwise they would be illegal to even use. Seems to me they are similar to DAO guns like (i think) sigs LEM trigger.I agree Notice how the striker spring is already compressed, and the pull of the trigger compresses it slightly more...and after firing, how the reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it...The striker stays in front of the block, until the movement of the slide resets the striker. If the slide does not move rearward, the striker does not reset, and the gun can't be fired because it is not cocked...The gun can't be fired because the striker is not reset, not cocked...YOU said it was cocked, not I... Perhaps you missed this in the quote above....reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, The trigger is cocking it, when it moves rearward. The striker is set, not cocked like a double action gun, when the slide is forward and the trigger is in the ready position. USPSA defines it as double action because it is moving the striker, the rule explains it. Bret, watch the animation I posted above. The trigger is not cocking the striker, it is merely moving it backwards slightly, and then lets go. The trigger is merely completing the act of cocking that the slide started. moving the striker backwards seems to satisfy the action of cocking to me...no matter how slight...BTW the XD is even less of a backward movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I'm thinking the definition of "decocked" might be the focal point.Agreed. Clearly a glock or other striker gun is always considered decocked, otherwise they would be illegal to even use. Seems to me they are similar to DAO guns like (i think) sigs LEM trigger.I agree Notice how the striker spring is already compressed, and the pull of the trigger compresses it slightly more...and after firing, how the reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it...The striker stays in front of the block, until the movement of the slide resets the striker. If the slide does not move rearward, the striker does not reset, and the gun can't be fired because it is not cocked...The gun can't be fired because the striker is not reset, not cocked...YOU said it was cocked, not I... Perhaps you missed this in the quote above....reset re-compresses the striker spring...partially cocking it... of course not - this is where YOU state that it was partially cocked!!!!!!! You and you only refer to the resetting position as a partially cocked position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The XD has externally visible pin to indicate whether it is cocked or not as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, The trigger is cocking it, when it moves rearward. The striker is set, not cocked like a double action gun, when the slide is forward and the trigger is in the ready position. USPSA defines it as double action because it is moving the striker, the rule explains it. Bret, watch the animation I posted above. The trigger is not cocking the striker, it is merely moving it backwards slightly, and then lets go. The trigger is merely completing the act of cocking that the slide started. The striker and trigger are set by moving the slide rearward. The trigger cocks and releases the striker when pulled rearward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 The XD has externally visible pin to indicate whether it is cocked or not as well... It shows the striker has been Set, not cocked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 20, 2016 by racerba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 No, I don't...and no one would either....but the point remains, that pistol is cocked...Technically, by the rules, you can't start a competitor using a striker fired gun on a loaded start... I saw your earlier post, but show me support of that definition? Websters online dictionary...cock [1] n 1 the male of the domestic fowl 2 a any other male bird b the male of certain other animals, such as the lobster c (as modifier) a cock sparrow 3 short for → stopcock → weathercock 4 a taboo slang word for → penis 5 a the hammer of a firearm b its position when the firearm is ready to be discharged 6 (Brit) informal a friend, mate, or fellow 7 a jaunty or significant tilting or turning upwards a cock of the head 8 (Brit) informal nonsense vb 9 tr to set the firing pin, hammer, or breech block of (a firearm) so that a pull on the trigger will release it and thus fire the weapon 10 tr to set the shutter mechanism of (a camera) so that the shutter can be tripped by pressing the shutter-release button 11 tr; sometimes foll by: up to raise in an alert or jaunty manner 12 intr to stick or stand up conspicuously, (See also) → cockup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 No, I don't...and no one would either....but the point remains, that pistol is cocked...Technically, by the rules, you can't start a competitor using a striker fired gun on a loaded start... I saw your earlier post, but show me support of that definition? Websters online dictionary...cock [1] n 1 the male of the domestic fowl 2 a any other male bird b the male of certain other animals, such as the lobster c (as modifier) a cock sparrow 3 short for → stopcock → weathercock 4 a taboo slang word for → penis 5 a the hammer of a firearm b its position when the firearm is ready to be discharged 6 (Brit) informal a friend, mate, or fellow 7 a jaunty or significant tilting or turning upwards a cock of the head 8 (Brit) informal nonsense vb 9 tr to set the firing pin, hammer, or breech block of (a firearm) so that a pull on the trigger will release it and thus fire the weapon 10 tr to set the shutter mechanism of (a camera) so that the shutter can be tripped by pressing the shutter-release button 11 tr; sometimes foll by: up to raise in an alert or jaunty manner 12 intr to stick or stand up conspicuously, (See also) → cockup you forgot one: 13. See also Now that's trolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Grumpy, The definition you posted shows a Glock is not cocked when the slide is forward and the trigger is set and in the ready position, such as when it is loaded at the MR command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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