Entry level limited gun

[kxkid]

I am looking at eventually buying a pair of entry level limited guns. I currently shoot limited minor and am doing well. I know stepping up to a 40 would be better and help a lot. I have tossed around the idea of doing up a G35, looked at STI's and even the CZ 75 Tactical Sport Orange. What would be a good option? I have looked all over and cant really find anything.

[Distant Thunder]

What are you shooting Limited minor with now?

[cody6477]

I've become a big fan of the CZ TS. Been shooting it in Limited for a few months now with pretty good results.

[S&W686]

For entry level I would go with a Glock 35 or M&P Pro 40 5". I use both of these handguns when I started out and did very well with them. I have moved up to custom built guns that cost a lot more money, and not sure if the extra cost made me that much better of a shooter. I recently sold my custom Limited gun and will be moving back to my M&P Pro 40 5".

[SWprotected]

I think the CZ is a good option, well made,accurate, and they have a nice trigger. I know a few guys running them and they seem to like them.

[Nightops]

CZ Tac Sport, Tanfoglio Limited, RIA Pro Match.

All 3 are metal framed with full dust covers, mag wells, and single action triggers out of the box better than you can get on a striker fired gun. Can be had for $1200 or less new, Magazines and extensions to get to 140mm are available.

By the time you buy the host Glock, new trigger system, mag well, and sights, you are in the same price range as those 3 guns, and still won't have as good a trigger or as naturally flat shooting gun.

[zzt]

By the time you buy the host Glock, new trigger system, mag well, and sights, you are in the same price range as those 3 guns, and still won't have as good a trigger or as naturally flat shooting gun.

+1. My shooting buddy uses a Glock in 40. He is much younger than me, has better eye sight and is more accurate. And still i beat him almost every time with my CZ TS. The reason? My TS soaks up recoil and the muzzle doesn't rise anywhere near as much as his, so my splits are faster. 0.3 sec faster each split on a 10 target stage equals 3 seconds overall. That is hard to beat.

For $1400 you can buy a new CZ Tactical Sport with four mags/extensions that hold 20/21 rounds, a FO front sight and a few other extras and be ready to roll right out of the box. Plus you'll get a superb single action, 2 lb. trigger. You'll spend $300 at least on getting the Glock or M&P mags equipped with extended base plates and guts, $200 getting the trigger to work, and a couple hundred more adding weight to the light plastic gun. The TS comes ready to run right out of the box.

I'm not an expert on plastic guns. I like single action. That being said, of the modified, competition ready Glocks, M&Ps and XDs that I've shot, the M&P has the best trigger. It is simply astounding (to me) how good someone who knows what they are doing can make that trigger. All that Apex stuff that people shove in can't touch a good gunsmith trigger.

If you are considering moving to Open after Limited, the TS is not your best choice. You have very, very limited options. A Tanfo would be a slightly better choice, but not ideal. With the M&P, or the others, you can essentially do it yourself with off the shelf parts. Geez, when I was considering it, Carver Custom quoted $1999 for a full race M&P Open with red dot.

[MikeRush]

+1. My shooting buddy uses a Glock in 40. He is much younger than me, has better eye sight and is more accurate. And still i beat him almost every time with my CZ TS. The reason? My TS soaks up recoil and the muzzle doesn't rise anywhere near as much as his, so my splits are faster. 0.3 sec faster each split on a 10 target stage equals 3 seconds overall. That is hard to beat.

Are your splits negative .05s? Because plenty of people split faster than .25 with Glocks without anything soaking up anything a la Vogel and Coley. If your friend is splitting over .5, that is either a really tight shot or there is some technique issue. We have heard all about metal guns being faster, better, etc- and it is personal preference. Otherwise you wouldn't see Glocks on the podium at places like Limited and Production Nats.

If I were starting over in Limited on a very limited budget I would buy a G24, a TTI trigger kit, and some sights. If I had a moderate budget I would pick up a used custom 2011 or a new STI- it is probably where you will wind up eventually if you stick with it. I personally wouldn't spend the monet on anything between those two options, but that is just one man's opinion. If I had more than 2k to drop on a Limited gun I would get something built.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you're shooting Ltd Minor now, you already have your "entry level" gun ...

Now, you want something more advanced - .40 is a great idea.

Can't beat the STI ...

Why a "pair" of guns? One should be enough.

[zzt]

Maybe at Nationals levels Mike, but not at local matches. If you like plastic guns so much, why are you having a custom 38 super 2011 built?

I look at the guns at all our local matches. You see everything under the sun at the unsanctioned matches and steel. At our sanctioned L1 matches, the vast majority of Limited shooters shoot 2011s. As a general rule, those who shoot Glocks are either accurate and slow, or fast and sloppy. I've no doubt that there are some, maybe many, really good Glock shooters out there. I don't see them. Another of my shooting buddies shoots an unmodified Glock for Limited. I'm always amazed at his times. His splits are fast, but he horses the gun down for the second shot and they are all over the place. My hit factor is almost always higher than his.

Any way you cut it, a light plastic gun is going to recoil more than a heavier steel gun. It is also going to flip up more, so it will automatically take more time to return to normal, no matter how hard you hold it. These are physical facts.

Then there is the other extreme. One of the shooters has a 6" 2011 with a Unique style, unlightened slide , a bull barrel and a full length guide rod. His muzzle flip is next to nothing and less than many Open guns. However, it is so muzzle heavy that just holding it makes my tendenosis act up.

[MikeRush]

Not trying to thread drift or start a pissing match, but I feel like I should clarify my opinion.

I don't like plastic guns so much. I actually sold both of my Glocks. I am having another 2011 built. I like them better. This one will even have a stainless grip. Open guns are a different story as well- I haven't seen a plastic Open gun I could recommend yet.

I don't agree that a TS or even a full race 2011 equates to a .3 improvement in split times over a Glock. With the recent popularity of CZs I have seen some atrocious recoil management/splits/hits at local matches out of TS wielding newer shooters. You could make the same comments about hosers or turtles shooting any kind of gun- it isn't owned by a particular make or division.

I see lots of guys who shoot Glocks who are told they have to buy CZs because they are better and then continue to shoot just as poorly.

As a B class shooter I could split under .2 on easier target presentations with a 27 oz G24 at major. Coley and Vogel dip into the lower .1x range which arguably isn't within reach of some shooters, but barring some physical disability I think just about anyone could get at least into the .2s with a Glock with a small amount of effort.

I've shot the TS. I've shot Tanfo Limited guns. I've shot G22s, 35s, and 24s. I currently shoot a relatively exotic 2011 tracker. None of those guns will buy you splits or recoil management- or transitions for that matter. All of those things are earned/performed by the shooter. Out of all of those options I prefer the 2011 but none of the guns drive themselves.

If the budget is tight, and for whatever reason the OP feels he needs 2, the Glock will get it done. I've had a friend go from U to GM with a Glock, and I have seen infinitely more Glock's in Limited super squadders holsters than CZs or Tanfos. I wouldn't order the ZEV catalog for it, or whatever- just sights and a basic trigger.

By the time you get to TS money you are awefully close to Edge territory. I've picked up 2 2011s off these classifieds each for TS money. If you want more weight, better trigger, etc- I would recommend the 2011. Its probably where the OP will end up if he sticks with shooting Limited.

As OP is shooting Limited Minor currently, my priority list would be a blue press if he doesn't already have one, a Stoeger class, a 2011 if he can afford it or a Glock if he can't. By the time I sold my G24 rig I think I had maybe $800 in it from the sights to the extended basepads.

This is my opinion. If a gun functions, has reasonable accuracy, etc it will boil down to preference and shooter ability.

Some facts are:

USPSA Limited and L10 nationals have been won with a Glock (has anyone ever used a CZ or Tanfo to claim those titles?). A whole lot more titles have been won with a 2011.

[warpspeed]

I am looking at eventually buying a pair of entry level limited guns. I currently shoot limited minor and am doing well. I know stepping up to a 40 would be better and help a lot. I have tossed around the idea of doing up a G35, looked at STI's and even the CZ 75 Tactical Sport Orange. What would be a good option? I have looked all over and cant really find anything.

What's your budget ?

[Nik Habicht]

I think it depends on what you like, who you have trigger time with, and your personality.......

I like Glocks. I don't necessarily like them better than M&Ps or Sig 320s -- and if I were starting over the Sig might be my choice -- but I've got a lot of trigger time on the Glock platform. Last but not least, from a personality standpoint, I don't need to be shooting the gun de jour -- the gun's not holding me back......

For you the answers might (probably will) be totally different......

Start with "What do I like?"

Then consider what platform you have experience with, and how relevant that experience is.

Then consider how important it is to fit in, versus being the one guy at the match doing something different....

If I needed a Limited gun tomorrow, I'd pick up a Glock 35 or 2, order my favorite Sevigny sights, Vanek or DK triggers, Arredondo mag extensions as well as some of the newer third party mags to try. I'd slap on some Tru-grip once I settled on a backstop (if gen 4) and order in some 165 and 180 grain heads, and some once fired cases -- and dies or another press. Wow -- I'm getting tired just thinking about all that -- think I'll stick with production or Limited minor.

[AHI]

I've shot my G34 in limited for over two years. Don't see a need for anything else yet.( B class) will be A very soon. spend my money on ammo/match fees.

[bigbob21]

I've shot my G34 in limited for over two years. Don't see a need for anything else yet.( B class) will be A very soon. spend my money on ammo/match fees.

Been curious about this...

I do the same, although my locals are much smaller than the norm. I'm wanting to travel to matches within a couple of hours this year and wondering how limited minor works elsewhere...

I figured minor would be a big disadvantage. Locally, there's only 1-4 guys above me at a given match despite only shooting for 5-6 months....

If I could perform the same, but with major scoring, I'd prolly be winning. But if I were shooting major I'm sure I'd have a big learning curve. (Not that naive)

Are you just hauling ass and hitting mostly A's?

Because a bunch of A/C scores and your going to drop way down in points compared to major shooters.

Edited April 1, 2016 by bigbob21

[Hi-Power Jack]

Don't forget the advantages of Ltd Minor:

1. costs less to shoot 9mm

2. less recoil

3. more mag capacity (fewer reloads)

Not suggesting it - I'd go with the Major, also, but not all disadvantage

to shooting a 9mm in LTD.

[AHI]

I don't move all that fast. Yes you need to shoot A's. In a local match 80 people I'll finish in the top 15. Top 6 in limited. 9 is a lot cheaper to shoot. May try major some day just don't see a big advantage.

[jdublineman]

Following this thread for interest. I've been shooting USPSA coming up on a year now with a XDM 5.25 9mm. Now mine has PRP parts, springer magwell, and a couple other things but I consider it an entry level gun. I have looked hard at the CZ or even a 2011 in .40 but still stay in Limited just move to major. A lot of great info on this forum.

[kxkid]

The few local matches I have done so far I have done well for shooting limited minor with my G34. I know getting out and shooting more would improve my skill more, currently that is not a option at all. I am looking at changing to major later down the road when I can afford it because I know it is a way to not lose points for the same "c" hits with minor. Cost of ammo is not a factor since I cast my own bullets and have a source for free lead, have a ton of powder and primers bought a few years ago for cheap, and have a local supply of ginex primers for cheap. Thanks for all of your info.

[librarian45]

plenty of people make "M" with a glock 35, it's probably the most economical choice at like $850 for a good used rig with all the bells.

Even with the glock in cost are the RIA/armscor 1911s in 40. but then you get into spendy mags and trigger job magic.

for about 2x that you can get into the CZ Tac sports.

to me after that it's all a blur of $5k + 2011 builds that seem to all blow up at exactly the wrong time

[tanks]

Don't forget the advantages of Ltd Minor:

1. costs less to shoot 9mm

2. less recoil

3. more mag capacity (fewer reloads)

Not suggesting it - I'd go with the Major, also, but not all disadvantage

to shooting a 9mm in LTD.

1. Cost looking at my spreadsheet it is $17 more per thousand for .40 S&W, not that significant.

2. I'd venture the opposite for a heavier steel firearm.

3. My TS holds 20 rounds per mag (has base pads), standard is 17 rounds. On a 32 round course that is one reload for the most part. How is 9mm going to have less mag changes?

[waktasz]

Maybe at Nationals levels Mike, but not at local matches. If you like plastic guns so much, why are you having a custom 38 super 2011 built?

I look at the guns at all our local matches. You see everything under the sun at the unsanctioned matches and steel. At our sanctioned L1 matches, the vast majority of Limited shooters shoot 2011s. As a general rule, those who shoot Glocks are either accurate and slow, or fast and sloppy. I've no doubt that there are some, maybe many, really good Glock shooters out there. I don't see them. Another of my shooting buddies shoots an unmodified Glock for Limited. I'm always amazed at his times. His splits are fast, but he horses the gun down for the second shot and they are all over the place. My hit factor is almost always higher than his.

Any way you cut it, a light plastic gun is going to recoil more than a heavier steel gun. It is also going to flip up more, so it will automatically take more time to return to normal, no matter how hard you hold it. These are physical facts.

Then there is the other extreme. One of the shooters has a 6" 2011 with a Unique style, unlightened slide , a bull barrel and a full length guide rod. His muzzle flip is next to nothing and less than many Open guns. However, it is so muzzle heavy that just holding it makes my tendenosis act up.

I wonder what matches you are going to. I think over time the people who are serious like to dump money into their guns so 2011s at local matches make their way to the top, but I wouldn't say the vast majority of people shooting Limited are shooting them. I know a bunch of people shooting M&Ps, Glocks, CZs, etc. AJ and I shot Glocks in your area for a lot of years and managed to make Master with them.

Edited May 27, 2016 by waktasz

[SCTaylor]

Get a new slide for your 34 (35 slide) and swap the ejector. That'll be fairly cheap but still, with sights, about $500.

If you look, you can find used 35's for sale ~$500. I'm upgrading to a 2011 soon and will be selling my G35 (not an ad; post count isn't high enough) with the trimmings. They are out there you just have to make the choice what to go with.

[brisix]

Also you can consider a CZ-P09 in 40. The P09 is most accurate CZ pistol. Just install the Cajun Gunworks internal parts and hammer and get the magwell and magazine parts from CZ Custom. You can get to 21+1 rounds. You can go with the safety configuration and start single action. I would go this route over a Glock if you intend to go the plastic route but I like CZs

The TS is also a very good choice if you want to go the metal route. All you need is a magwell and magazine parts from CZ custom and you are rocking the party

[Delta66]

A guy in my squad at our section match was shooting an M&P 40. He cleaned house and beat several of the guys shooting $4k+ STI's. If you know your gun, you can perform.