hwansikcjswo Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 At 2015 Production nationals, I saw JJ Racaza fixing his gun after a malfunction on a stage. He filed his extractor and switched the part instead switching his gun to his second gun he had at the time. Can I switch to a back up gun with a small malfunction like stove pipe or something? In what cases can I switch my gun to a back up gun? I am aware that we need to get approval from the range master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I think the key phrase in 5.1.7 is: "in the event that a competitor’s original handgun and/or sights become unserviceable or unsafe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 If my gun was having problems period, I would call for the RM and get approval to switch. Then again my guns are virtually identical finally so it would be a simple swap with no raised eyebrows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwansikcjswo Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 If my gun was having problems period, I would call for the RM and get approval to switch. Then again my guns are virtually identical finally so it would be a simple swap with no raised eyebrows How about Level 3 and up matches? like world championship. Would RM allow changing the gun after a malfunction if switching to a "virtually identical" gun? When Rule 5.1.7 is applied, if my understanding is correct, fixable malfunction (stove pipe, FTE, etc) is not a reasonable reason to switch to a back-up gun even if it was "virtually identical". Thank you for replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I never refused a gun swap if it fit the division. I asked why and usually the answer was something along the line of "it won't work". Having experienced a few guns that wouldn't work, that was good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LilBunniFuFu Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 The issue is that it doesn't specify what unserviceable means. I am not a gunsmith so my gun is therefore unservicable. If anyone else other than my specific gunsmith tinkers then I run the risk of voiding my warranty. Would that not be enough to merit a change of guns? Also if you look at 5.1.7.4 it says that the previous handgun is still subject to chrono if the malfunction is not related to an inability to safely fire the gun. My $.02 as an RO and switching guns at majors as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 If my gun was having problems period, I would call for the RM and get approval to switch. Then again my guns are virtually identical finally so it would be a simple swap with no raised eyebrows How about Level 3 and up matches? like world championship. Would RM allow changing the gun after a malfunction if switching to a "virtually identical" gun? When Rule 5.1.7 is applied, if my understanding is correct, fixable malfunction (stove pipe, FTE, etc) is not a reasonable reason to switch to a back-up gun even if it was "virtually identical". Thank you for replies. A stove pipe? I wouldn't worry. Stove pipe 2-3 times all of a sudden I'm looking to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbo76 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 You have to re-chrono your ammo (if required) but switching guns is fine at any point of a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbo76 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 You have to re-chrono your ammo (if required) but switching guns is fine at any point of a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I never refused a gun swap if it fit the division. I asked why and usually the answer was something along the line of "it won't work". Having experienced a few guns that wouldn't work, that was good enough for me. My thought too. A semi auto is designed to feed from the mag fire extract eject repeat. If it won't do that reliably its unserviceable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 If you switch, does it have to be the same model? Or just fit division requirements? As in, could you have a Glock 34 as a back-up to a Stock 2? It would mean changing belt setup as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Fit the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intel6 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I had my open gun stop working reliably at Area 2 one year and I didn't have a backup open gun. I decided to finish the match with my 6" limited gun. We were about to go to the chrono and the RM happened to be there so I asked him to switch. I was still shooting open but I was doing it with a gun that worked. Luckily, a buddy/squad mate happened to be a .40 open shooter and I was able to use a 27 round big stick for the match so it wasn't too frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I had my open gun stop working reliably at Area 2 one year and I didn't have a backup open gun. I decided to finish the match with my 6" limited gun. We were about to go to the chrono and the RM happened to be there so I asked him to switch. I was still shooting open but I was doing it with a gun that worked. Luckily, a buddy/squad mate happened to be a .40 open shooter and I was able to use a 27 round big stick for the match so it wasn't too frustrating. OK -- but by definition your Limited gun meets all requirements for Open, right? So it fits the division -- even though it may have been designed for another..... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Single Stack Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Fit the division. That is good to know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 (edited) I was at Nationals the year Megan won Ladies Open. An SV Team shooter used his Limited Gun in Open. He had a big stick for it. I had a big stick for my SV Limited also. Then he shot Limited Nationals Edited January 4, 2016 by pjb45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 My experience is that RMs tend to give the competitor the broadest latitude. So long as the gun meets the division criteria, PF etc., the RM should approve. The only time I can see an issue arising is if you ask to change multiple times in a match, which seems to be an unlikely eventuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Can you make your original gun serviceable, & switch back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Can you make your original gun serviceable, & switch back? IMO it depends. If you tell me "My extractor broke and I need to swap guns until I can fit a new extractor" I would not have an issue with you changing back to your original gun. Each case would have to be evaluated on its own merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Just curious, thanks Gary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 If it fits the division I have never seen It turned down and it dosent need to be the same gun. Not everyone is buying 2 identical guns in case one breaks. For open and limited my backup guns are my old glocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richc2048 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 You guys are lucky. I had an issue at a Level II match and it was like pulling teeth to switch guns. The RM eventually let me but not until he fiddled with my gun for 15 minutes telling me he "didn't think it's the extractor". My guess is he felt I had to have the correct answer to my problem? I'm not sure really what was going on. I was having Feeding issues. (turns out it was the extractor) but anyways, I had to switch holsters too so I basically lost any stage planning time for the next stage because of fiddling with my belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guns_and_labs Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I swapped out my gun at Nationals a couple of years ago after my extractor broke. No issue with the RM, other than I had to re-chrono. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 i've had to do it once, a while back in Single Stack. Jam after jam on a couple stages and went to the RM (Gary) and said "i need to go to my backup, I can't get this thing to run". He had me lay both guns on the table so he could see they were about equal and was good to go. I had already failed chrono, haha, so my day was down the crapper long before that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DagoRed Posted March 11, 2016 Share Posted March 11, 2016 I'm working on getting my second gun as identical as I can, I try to always carry a spare because I'm not good enough to know how to fix on the spot. There's something I wonder about, having never gone to a big shoot, are there gunsmiths on site to help between stages or overnight? The California state trap shoot always has a couple gunsmiths on site. Seems it's a good advertising opportunity for the big custom builders. Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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