New to USPSA: Please Help

[ngodwetrust21]

I shot my first USPSA match this past weekend. I have only shot IDPA in the past and it started getting a little old after making master class and consistently winning the club matches. So I bought the stock II, gear, and am going to see if I can get any good at this USPSA thing.

The reason for the post though is that this scoring for USPSA is throwing me off. I will use one of the stages for the match as an example. I got second place in production on one of the stages by shooting a completely clean run, 160 out of 160 points (YAY!). When the scores came out and I saw the guy that won only got 140 points, It made me dig into how the scores were figured more. So here is how the scores went:

I shot 160 points in 29.79 seconds for a hit factor of 5.3709. The guy that won the stage shot 140 points in 25.63 seconds for a hit factor of 5.4623. My frustration comes from the fact that if this stage were scored using IDPA scoring and I added .5 seconds for his C hits and 1.5 seconds for his D hits, I would add 6 seconds to his score for his 6 C and 2 D hits. Meaning, I would have easily won the stage with IDPA scoring.

Please don’t take this as I am complaining about USPSA as I am not. It is a different game with different rules and scoring. The truth is, I had way more fun shooting the USPSA match than I have ever had shooting IDPA. My question is how should I change my game to be more competitive at USPSA? I feel like I could have shot that stage much faster and picked up a few more C hits and easily won the stage. Should this be my strategy or should I try to shave time off in other areas and keep shooting A's? I would love the advice of some of the veteran USPSA shooters on this.

Thanks,

Andy

[GrumpyOne]

If you are shooting 100% of the points, you are going too slow. Shoot your next match as fast as you possibly can...see what the percentage of point is then...try to get to around 95% of the points

[blairmckenzie1]

Get Brian's book !

[RJH]

In production I have to agree that A's really matter. I would look at stage breakdown, movement, getting into and out of positions. Usually in a 29 second stage you can shave quite a bit of time there. Allowing a few charlies in a stage shouldn't be a deal breaker though, just try to stay out of the d ring.

[Trent1k1]

You need to balance speed and accuracy. You have already sort of figured out the math. In USPSA, the stage points (and winners) are determined by Hit Factor. In Production, you cannot have any Deltas (we refer to them as No Penalty Mikes since they are worth only 1 point in Minor Power Factor), but you can have Charlies. As Grumpy one said, you need to score between 90-95% of the available points on the stage and do it quickly.

If your club is using Practiscore electronic scoring, the scorekeeper will know exactly what your Hit Factor is as soon as they are done scoring the stage. He also has data on the A, B, C, D, mikes, etc.

I know guys who write down their exact scores and keep them in a spreadsheet to make sure that week after week, month after month, etc., that they are shooting 90% or so of the available points on each stage. If they drop below that, then they will focus a little more on accuracy. If too much above 90%, they will work on speed a little bit.

Example

5 Paper targets (10 shots, 50 points available)

if you shoot 10 Alphas, in 5 seconds, the Hit Factor is 10.

If you shoot 8 Alpha, and 2 Deltas in 3.5 seconds, the Hit Factor is 12

If you shoot 4 Alpha and 6 Charlie in 3.5 seconds, the Hit Factor is 10.8

This game is really all about the Hit Factor.

[Trent1k1]

It is 'almost' possible to miss fast enough to win, but I wouldn't count on that as a normal game plan.

[BSeevers]

You don't try for C's you "accept" a certain amount. Usually amounts to 5-8% of points if you want to win. When I say win I generally mean majors. Locals are based on who's around or who is training. I have dominated locals winning matches all year by 20%. Right now not so much. I'm not training as hard and we have grown a huge talent pool round here.

So we have a huge talent pool currently but next year that could be 180 deg difference. Wanna see where you stand? Area's or Nationals.

You need to make an adjustment to your training to improve at USPSA. These are the most fastest and accurate shooters in the world. Showing up ain't good enough. I have spent countless hours to drop .10 sec off something.

Don't fall into a speed trap if you want to win consistently. I'm pretty fast but my shooting has evolved into shooting A's as fast as I can and sometimes accepting less for speed. You see the gun can only track recover move, so fast. Then it's your foot speed, entry/exit, splits at 24 yards......I could go on and on. You need to master everything. Don't and understand your competition already is.

Edited December 22, 2015 by BSeevers

[euxx]

In IPSC/USPSA how fast you need to go and how many points you can afford to drop (keeping your best effort) depend on the overall stage hit factor. On a low HF stage points do matter a lot, and on a high HF stage - not that a lot:

0..4 HF - could afford to drop 2..3% stage points

4..8 HF - could afford to drop 3..9% stage points

8..12 HF- could afford to drop 12..13% stage points

13... HF - go as fast as you can

The HF is how many points per second you are getting. For instance on a 5 HF stage, not worth to take more than 2 seconds to shoot a long distance plate to avoid the 10+5 points miss penalty.

[NickBlasta]

Just think of your hit factor as points per second. You were earning 5.3709 points per second by hitting all alphas and your opponent was earning 5.4623 points per second by moving a little faster and accepting some charlies. You'll get a feel for when it's okay to drop points in exchange for time the more you shoot USPSA over IDPA.

[Onepocket]

I will set up stages and shoot all A's as fast as I can, get the hit factor calculator and see what it is. Then shoot it at a faster speed see what it is. Then drink a monster and try and crush the time. Funny thing is for me anyhow shooting it full speed tends to produce the higher hit factor. Playing around with stages in practice have taught me what my potential speed can be in a match. I have been using the practiscore app.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Onepocket

[amokscience]

If you had been .5 seconds faster you would have won that stage. Your accuracy is great, you'll pickup half a second easily, especially coming from IDPA.

Edited December 23, 2015 by amokscience

[rowdyb]

Yep, both games are different and both require a slightly different strategy. Shooting both and trying to do well at both will make you a better shooter for sure.

[LilBunniFuFu]

One of the problems I've seen with long time IDPA guys transitioning over to USPSA is the ingrained idiosyncrasies involved with the previous sport. Did you find your self cutting the pie, standing reloads, slide lock reloads, COVER!!!! If you noticed any of these things they do end up taking a nice chunk of time on the stage.

[ngodwetrust21]

Great advice from everyone. I really appreciate all the replies. The examples of hit factor based on time spent and points gained was enlightening. I am way off of being able to guess what hit factor a stage is going to be as the one poster suggested, but I would like to be there one day. I also like the idea of setting up a mini stage and shooting it at different speeds as suggested to see what works best for me. And Yes, I do need to break some of my IDPA idiosyncrasies. Reloading and shooting on the move just seems foreign to me at this point. I am sure I am doing it too slow.

[Hi-Power Jack]

It is 'almost' possible to miss fast enough to win

It certainly is, if you're rated a D shooter - and quite

possibly if you're a C shooter ( unless you have a

Sand baggr C you're shooting against).

Once you get into the B's and higher ratings, NOT

possible - then you have to hit the target to do well.

[euxx]

...I am way off of being able to guess what hit factor a stage is going to be as the one poster suggested, but I would like to be there one day.

That one is simple. You can just watch previous shooters and check their time. It will give you a rough idea of the time and if you know how good shooter is you can adjust your estimate accordingly.

Another option is to use a stopwatch during walktrough and time how long does it take to go trough the stage at your own pace.

[Trent1k1]

It is 'almost' possible to miss fast enough to win

It certainly is, if you're rated a D shooter - and quite

possibly if you're a C shooter ( unless you have a

Sand baggr C you're shooting against).

Once you get into the B's and higher ratings, NOT

possible - then you have to hit the target to do well.

It obviously depends on the stage. A long field course that you crush on time (beat the next closest shooter by 3+ seconds, you can easily have a Miss and win the stage. I remember one stage that had a steel popper that could only be seen from one location. That location was 5 steps away from the rest of the flow of the stage. I took an FTE and Mike on the popper, saved 5 1/2 seconds on the stage and had the High HF for the stage.

It rarely happens that way, but in doing the math for the steps, getting in and out of the position, on THAT stage it made more mathematical sense to skip that target.

This is getting off track now, but Disappearing targets (Max Traps, Drop Turners) can also play into stage breakdown and affect Hit Factor. Sometimes it is worth taking the extra time to get the points, and sometimes it is not worth the time to engage. Many things come into play for those such as if the stage finishes on a drop-turner. The .5 second it will take to engage 2 shots for a possible 10 points needs to be calculated against the rest of the stage and time you believe it will take to run the stage shooting 90% of the points. Drop Turners may be so quick that the possibility of missing the 2nd shot and not earning the 5 points for an Alpha outweighs the benefits of even engaging the target.

That what I love about this sport. it is a game and those that game mo betta than others, can sometimes win, at any level.

[3gunDQ]

I would cut loose on the next match, just go as fast as you can and don't focus so much on hits, just deal all the paper 2 rounds as fast as you can and move on.... Explode into the next position! And be ready to shoot as soon as you get there. Explode! Don't run, don't hurry, explosive movement, fast pre-planned movement into each shooting position for any given stage.

Pay attention to the amount of match points in a given stage. The longer stages I recomend really picking up the pace! All the stages are important but you really want to win the more high value stages.

[rowdyb]

You wrote: My question is how should I change my game to be more competitive at USPSA?

Since you come from an IDPA background let's address that first. The same attention to detail you paid to in making sure you were in cover as you entered a shooting position you now give the same effort to making sure you are shooting as soon as possible into the shooting position. The same way you knew where you'd be doing your slide lock reload in IDPA you now start planning where you'll do your speed reload (loaded chamber reload in idpa parlance).Just as in IDPA you made sure you shot targets in tac priority now you make sure you shoot target arrays instead in the most efficient manner. In IDPA you never wanted to shoot a -3, well here you never want to shoot a D. In IDPA you'd be pissed if 25% of your score came from points down, in USPSA you'd be unhappy if you only shot 75% of the available alphas.

So you take the IDPA skills you have and just redirect them to different aspects. Not knowing you but just making generic assumptions I'd say you probably need to 1. simply run faster from place to place. 2. arrive at a spot where you're shooting in the open, not using cover-ish shooting position from habit. 3. start learning to break down stages based on your division's unique requirements. 4. understand hitfactor as it pertains "in the moment". by this i mean understanding your ability as it relates to the challenges in whatever stage and figure out just want balance of points and time you'd like to strike. They have a relationship to each other and you're in charge of both aspects, accuracy and time.

Edited December 24, 2015 by rowdyb

[my00wrx1]

You can get phone apps to calculate hit factor to help with your post stage analysis if you are not using one already.

Getting the balance between accuracy and speed can be tricky when you are starting out.

Buddy up with a more experienced and or higher graded shooter if you can and ask for feed back.

Video can be great. Get someone to video you and if you can video someone who can run the stage faster/better than you can and compare the 2.

[waktasz]

For now I wouldn't change anything. It was you first match. The speed people are going to run through the stages is a lot different from the speed you are used to shooting IDPA at due to the cover and reloading rules. You weren't that far off and you can obviously make all the shots so your speed will come.

I started as an IDPA shooter and it took some practice sessions with pen and paper and a calculator with some experimentation to figure out how I should be shooting some arrays to get the best hit factor. Shooting on the move on the easy targets is one way to really shave time. Most IDPA shooters I know aren't able to do it fast enough to make it worthwhile though. If you just tippy toe around like you would in IDPA to satisfy the "must be moving" portions of their stages you will be too slow. Get out there and experiment with it.

Check this out if you have time. It shows 3 ways to shoot a simple 4 shot array and the results may surprise you.

[shooterclay]

I know these two sports couldn't be more different but when I began shooting 3 gun I started winning or placing near the top in idpa and uspsa matches.

[theWacoKid]

So the way I look at it sometimes is to realize the points you do shoot decrease in value as time passes. Same thing for penalties, they penalize you worse the slower your stage time. I've noticed that your current skill level dictates whether you'll shoot a higher hit factor on a particular stage by chasing time or points. If you're naturally fast focus on points, but if you're always seconds behind focus on getting done quicker. General rule of thumb is always go fast but dropping points hurts more on low hit factor stages.

Of course if you're at the top of the game the only choice is to shoot nearly all the points at pace rivaling the fastest times your competition will run. I find on average you can make up for dropped points with time more often than making up a slow time with more points. For example, I find a stage screw up or malfunction that adds time to a run normally hurts worse than an accuracy screw up that scores you -20 penalty points. However, neither are good.