ChuckS Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 you need to contact the MD and "remind" them that you plan to shoot in the CO division. Since it's now an official provisional division I don't think MDs of sanctioned USPSA matches get a choice NOT to offer it. It would be like going to a match with your revolver and the MD saying "sorry dude, we don't allow your kind here" .... I was going to ask what rule backs that but I am pretty sure there isn't any or there would be no: Production Nationals Single Stack Classic/Nationals Revolver Nationals Oklahoma Open,Limited, Revolver Sectional Oklahoma Production and Single Stack Sectional Western States Single Stack Championship WSRevo match and so forth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDRODA396 Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 (edited) I cant make the "quote" function work so I cant reply to your post, but thanks for the reply Nimitz, I understand what you're sayin' Edited August 18, 2015 by CDRODA396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 For those already shooting CO in local matches not yet on board with it, are they scoring you in Open, something else or just ignoring you? My slide should be in shortly but I don't see any place close showing scores for it? you need to contact the MD and "remind" them that you plan to shoot in the CO division. Since it's now an official provisional division I don't think MDs of sanctioned USPSA matches get a choice NOT to offer it. It would be like going to a match with your revolver and the MD saying "sorry dude, we don't allow your kind here" .... I'm pretty sure nothing would prevent me from offering a monthly production only match, at which no other divisions were recognized -- well, except for the fact that it would be 1/3 to 1/2 the size of our usual matches. If what you're saying was true, we couldn't have a stand-alone SS, Revolver, or Production Nats.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 i don't think the decision to have stand alone Nationals has anything to do with offering the full range of divisions at matches. what gives MDs the authority to only offer the divisions they like? When you hang the USPSA banner out for a match isn't ther an expectation about what that match will offer? Do you really believe it's appropriate to only offer the divisions YOU want as MD. I'd love to hear what leadership thinks about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 i don't think the decision to have stand alone Nationals has anything to do with offering the full range of divisions at matches. what gives MDs the authority to only offer the divisions they like? When you hang the USPSA banner out for a match isn't ther an expectation about what that match will offer? Do you really believe it's appropriate to only offer the divisions YOU want as MD. I'd love to hear what leadership thinks about that? Here is the rule on divisions: 6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize a winner in each Division. Ya gotta have at least one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I believe as long as it is advertised in advance as a "blank" match or a blank/blank/ blank match You can do as advertised Generic Uspsa match should have to offer all divisions I don't remember places saying, no single stack here, shoot what u got In limited when SS was introduced as a division Edited August 19, 2015 by cnote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Our club will start CO in September. Sorry if I missed this elsewhere, the way the new CO appendix written, says optic 'permitted', then that it must be located in certain spot. Does this 'require' optic? Or can anyone with otherwise eligible gun that makes weight, can they shoot iron sight only, no optic in CO? Not asking why they would, but if they can. I think the rules need to be clarified on that issue, the use of an Optic is marked as YES but it should be MANDATORY. I fired off a question to DNROI. At this point optic does not appear mandatory as I read the rule. I see no need for it to be mandatory either. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I think it should be mandatory for the provisional period, if it is not then it may artificially skew the attendance numbers for this division thereby providing a false impression of the popularity. It is the popularity that will be the determining factor in whether the division remains or not so accurate data is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 i don't think the decision to have stand alone Nationals has anything to do with offering the full range of divisions at matches. what gives MDs the authority to only offer the divisions they like? When you hang the USPSA banner out for a match isn't ther an expectation about what that match will offer? Do you really believe it's appropriate to only offer the divisions YOU want as MD. I'd love to hear what leadership thinks about that? The rule has been cited. From a customer service or match/sport growing perspective it's all kinds of wrong to do it on a regular basis...... On the other hand, when Dave Miller was running Topton, he'd put on a Revolver division match every winter. He'd offer the other divisions, but he'd also have special prizes for the wheel gunners.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andersonj55126 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I would not be surprised to see people shooting their iron sighted plastic guns that include +10oz of weight to get up to the 35oz max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramairthree Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Not coming in first is what I meant by spanked. And the polymer makers feel that way or they would not have put pressure on for the limit. As for 10 round mags, I am one of the few I know that is strongly in favor of it. I think mag changes are an important part of the shooter's time and skill. mandatory mag changes dictated in the stage or a round limit are the only ways to do it without crazy high round counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Is IPSC Production any less challenging because of 5 more rounds? I don't mind a limit, but it needs to be based on valid reasons. Because BAN is not a valid reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 One more time, I will thoroughly enjoy watching CZ dominate this new division as well. And with a new President when that happens, Glock, Springfield, and S&W will be SOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Timing is everything! I went to http://mod1firearms.com today, and basically Pike was getting ready for the Pro-AM. I talked to him about milling both the G21 and G19 for a RMR. He talked me into just doing the G21. Then he said, "I’ll give you a call in a few hours and you can pick it up.” Wow, that blew me away. Not only did he turn down some work, he did almost an immediate turn around. I took it out to BGSL and just sighted it in, not shooting for >two weeks did a job on me. So, a bunch of dry firing for me. Thanks Pike! The weights below from a USPS electronic scale. G21 + RMR + empty 13rd mag = 30.2 oz. G21 + RMR + empty 13rd mag + Tungsten Guid Rod = 31.7 oz So I could add 3 oz. if I wanted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Tooned my P-09 trigger last night, 5.21# DA/ 2.11# SA Now to test it out on different primers Tested it today, lights up Winchester primers every time. 3 stage match tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011BLDR Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I think it should be mandatory for the provisional period, if it is not then it may artificially skew the attendance numbers for this division thereby providing a false impression of the popularity. It is the popularity that will be the determining factor in whether the division remains or not so accurate data is important. I concur, we need to see the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011BLDR Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) I do not agree with either the current 10 round limit or the proposed 15 round limit. · 10 round limit, The federal AWB went away 11 years ago you already have 3 round limited divisions (Production, L10 & SS) don’t need a 4th · 15 round limit, not compatible with our 8 shots from a location, stages will need to be shot just like a 10 round limit or be 1round short of doing 2 positions after the 2nd position · Load to factory capacity no extended bas pads allowed, will result in the gun with the highest factory capacity having a small advantage and may over time be the only platform to use ( Limited & the 2011), our 8 shots from a location will mitigate this somewhat as anything over 16+1 is insurance for a makeup shot. stages will be shot the same as limited I believe we have the answer in the provisional rules, Mag length is 141.25MM if we just default to this all the guns will be capacity leveled out at 23+1. This will mix things up a bit in stage planning with a capacity not currently common to any other Division. Additionally it is a base pad change to go back to factory capacity if you needed to for some reason. So what I would like to see change: · Weight limit removed · Move to the 141.25MM mags loaded to capacity (23+1) · Drop the certification by the manufacture process, anyone with a computer can do a search in 2 minutes and see if a gun is “ readily available” for purchase. NROI should just do this on any “New” offering based on a member request and add it to the list. Example the S&W Performance Center Ported is a standard production frame with a trigger over travel stop threaded in so why do we as individual USPSA shooters have to fight the giant corporate maze of S&W for years to get a "Certification" for NROI · Clean up the “special notes” if Glock gets a pass on their slide holes on the “C” models with a non-ported barrel swap then so should any and all other manufactures. Example the S&W Performance Center Ported is a standard production slid with the ports milled prior to final finish, just like the Glock “C” series · Expand the grip stippling/ tape area to include the common areas currently excluded: o Front strap to trigger guard radius o Underside and front of trigger guard o Thumb pad / index points along the frame above the trigger and below the slide Edited August 20, 2015 by 2011BLDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 If they did all that, wouldn't that be a lot closer to Limited than Production? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011BLDR Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) If they did all that, wouldn't that be a lot closer to Limited than Production? No, I think it would barrow elements from Limited, Open and Production and create a rule set that reflects what is actually being used and be a blast to shoot. Remember we are behind on this one not out in front; this class of guns already exists and is in use, they are a mixture of full customs and customized factory offerings. Most existing in use guns (as in 98%) are excluded by our current extremity restrictive rule set. Edited August 20, 2015 by 2011BLDR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 i don't think the decision to have stand alone Nationals has anything to do with offering the full range of divisions at matches. what gives MDs the authority to only offer the divisions they like? When you hang the USPSA banner out for a match isn't ther an expectation about what that match will offer? Do you really believe it's appropriate to only offer the divisions YOU want as MD. I'd love to hear what leadership thinks about that?Here is the rule on divisions:6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize a winner in each Division. Ya gotta have at least one wow ... that's .... disappointing ..... obviously shooters will vote with there feet if not enough divisions are offered at a match but with something like a new provisional division which will be decided based on participation levels, allowing MDs to exclude a division they don't care for won't be reflected in the data .... Also, "offering" a particular divison at a match is nothing more then scoring those shooters separately, & if you're doing electronic scoring there is really no extra work .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If they did all that, wouldn't that be a lot closer to Limited than Production? Actually mini open minor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insertgenericid Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 If they did all that, wouldn't that be a lot closer to Limited than Production? No, I think it would barrow elements from Limited, Open and Production and create a rule set that reflects what is actually being used and be a blast to shoot. Remember we are behind on this one not out in front; this class of guns already exists and is in use, they are a mixture of full customs and customized factory offerings. Most existing in use guns (as in 98%) are excluded by our current extremity restrictive rule set. Endorsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 i don't think the decision to have stand alone Nationals has anything to do with offering the full range of divisions at matches. what gives MDs the authority to only offer the divisions they like? When you hang the USPSA banner out for a match isn't ther an expectation about what that match will offer? Do you really believe it's appropriate to only offer the divisions YOU want as MD. I'd love to hear what leadership thinks about that?Here is the rule on divisions:6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize a winner in each Division. Ya gotta have at least one wow ... that's .... disappointing ..... obviously shooters will vote with there feet if not enough divisions are offered at a match but with something like a new provisional division which will be decided based on participation levels, allowing MDs to exclude a division they don't care for won't be reflected in the data .... Also, "offering" a particular divison at a match is nothing more then scoring those shooters separately, & if you're doing electronic scoring there is really no extra work .... So, you'd rather "Require" MD's to do things a certain way? That only works for so long -- before the volunteers stop volunteering....... I'd rather give MDs the option to know their local audience and to tailor the match to their customer base.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2011BLDR Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Production: holster and mag positions Action type (SA Excluded) Minor Limited: Grip modifications Slide machining Open: Optic ( slide mounted only) Excluded mods: Comps Barrel ports Slide Rackers Thumb rest Unique to CO: 141.25MM MAG limit + minor = 23+1( I think mag wells should be allowed also) Readily available in the market base gun ( in a few years stand alone gunsmith frames may need to be addressed if they appear) Optic required to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric4069 Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Excluded mods: Comps Barrel ports Slide Rackers Thumb rest I would prefer to also continue excluding mag-wells personally Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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