R34PER Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I was watching the latest PowerFactor show youtube upload. They brought up a point that I really agree with. Why not eliminate Production/Single Stack and combine them into Limited 10. That sounds ideal to me. What is everyone else's thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Get rid of L10 and Revo! Add pistol caliber carbine. Everything else is great! Prod, Limited, SS, Open, PPC that should be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If they combined L10, production and SS wouldn't that be the same as eliminating SS and Production? Isn't production one of the most popular divisions? How does this make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 i personally would love to see some way of combining ss and L10. I would even be happy to see it use existing SS capacity rules (10 minor/8 major). I'm not sure why the original old dudes thought it was so important to have the holster restrictions, but I'd be ok with that too. 1911's are already seriously competitive in L10, so I think you'd still see plenty of them. I know I'd continue to shoot one. Might be interesting to see how many cz/unicorn shooters would opt for 10-round minor in such a division. but whatever. it also works to just make fun of l10 shooters and call then names until they man up and shoot a real division. it's probably not a good idea to do ANYTHING to production, except allow stippling for the poor saps that shoot crappy plastic guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34PER Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I have multiple guns that I would love to compete with, but the only place they are competitive is L-10. Example my IWI Jericho with a trigger job that makes it competetive with other CZ75s, but that trigger job makes it ineligible for Production. However it uses CZ75 mags so there is no way that it can be competitive in regards to capacity in Limited.I prefer major power factor cailbers, but the production 10 round format. Also, why are Proudction guys so scared of competing with Single Stack? Edited December 7, 2015 by R34PER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindAsABat Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without limited 10, for those of us that don't live in a free state, there would no way that we would be competitive in Limited given our capacity restrictions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without limited 10, for those of us that don't live in a free state, there would no way that we would be competitive in Limited given our capacity restrictions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All divisions revert to the allowed mag limits in specific states. This is a non issue for those that live in places like CA and NY. You shoot limited with whatever you local laws allow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I have multiple guns that I would love to compete with, but the only place they are competitive is L-10. Example my IWI Jericho with a trigger job that makes it competetive with other CZ75s, but that trigger job makes it ineligible for Production. However it uses CZ75 mags so there is no way that it can be competitive in regards to capacity in Limited.I prefer major power factor cailbers, but the production 10 round format. Also, why are Proudction guys so scared of competing with Single Stack? have to ask what in the trigger job makes it not production legal? the only thing I can think of is a trigger from a Tanfoglio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R34PER Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Maximis228: What happens when someone shooting in their state in limited that has been reduced to 10 rounds then goes on to shoot in another state or a major match and is stuck shooting 10 round gear against people running huge stick mags? That hardly seems fair. BikerBurgess: In order to use Tanfoglio small frame trigger parts. I had to remove the slide mounted decocker lever in order to use the firing pin. It's an external modification and makes it not production legal. That same modification is perfectly legal in Limited 10. Edited December 7, 2015 by R34PER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maximis228: What happens when someone shooting in their state in limited that has been reduced to 10 rounds then goes on to shoot in another state or a major match and is stuck shooting 10 round gear against people running huge stick mags? That hardly seems fair. BikerBurgess: In order to use Tanfoglio small frame trigger parts. I had to remove the slide mounted decocker lever in order to use the firing pin. It's an external modification and makes it not production legal. That same modification is perfectly legal in Limited 10. so you made it a frame mounted safety gun? not trying to argue, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maximis228: What happens when someone shooting in their state in limited that has been reduced to 10 rounds then goes on to shoot in another state or a major match and is stuck shooting 10 round gear against people running huge stick mags? That hardly seems fair. Find loaner mags. Make it so you can modify your mags to allow more when you go out of state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesquire Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Why would you move the most popular division (prod) into the second least popular (L10)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without limited 10, for those of us that don't live in a free state, there would no way that we would be competitive in Limited given our capacity restrictions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All divisions revert to the allowed mag limits in specific states. This is a non issue for those that live in places like CA and NY. You shoot limited with whatever you local laws allow. But, they would not be competitive at area or national matches unless they buy mags on the way and dump them before returning home. Again, a "screw you" to the shooters behind enemy lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eisenhow Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Without limited 10, for those of us that don't live in a free state, there would no way that we would be competitive in Limited given our capacity restrictions. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk All divisions revert to the allowed mag limits in specific states. This is a non issue for those that live in places like CA and NY. You shoot limited with whatever you local laws allow. In states like MA it's not that straight forward. They allow preban mags so you can shoot a glock (since pre-bans) exist. If you want to shoot an M&P you need L10 unless you want to chance being charged with a felony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I still haven't figured out how it actually helps USPSA to eliminate a division, and I really haven't seen anyone else present a good reason either. Divisions are very regionally dependent. Where I shoot Limited is the biggest division by far, generally followed by Open, then L10 or SS, with production sucking hind tit. It cost USPSA nothing but a trophy at nationals to keep L10, and it is a great division for the oddball guns out there. The "I don't like l10 because there are not enough shooters in my area" reason seems stupid to me. If you want more shooters in L10, then shoot L10. I am classified in all divisions, and L10 is one of my favorites, and it always baffles me when people who never shoot a division want to piss on it. To all you L10 naysayers, come shoot some L10 you might like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundevil827 Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Just curious, what "problem" is being solved, and why the need to consolidate divisions? I mean, why the need for a solution where I can't seem to find people saying there is a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Just curious, what "problem" is being solved, and why the need to consolidate divisions? I mean, why the need for a solution where I can't seem to find people saying there is a problem? the main reason for this argument is that everyone agrees on the 4 teams for the college football playoffs, which means we need to find something else trivial to passionately argue about while we're supposed to be working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I was watching the latest PowerFactor show youtube upload. They brought up a point that I really agree with. Why not eliminate Production/Single Stack and combine them into Limited 10. That sounds ideal to me. What is everyone else's thoughts? let's see ..... get rid of the most popular, fastest growing division (Production) and keep Lim10 & SS, 2 divisions that combined are still the least attended across the country .... whatever our new Pres has in store for USPSA I doubt this will be a part of it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandabooks Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 How about if we get rid of L10 and split Production into Light and Heavy? And allow major PF on the heavy side. Keep the new CO division where it is and put a barrel restriction at 4.25". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I don't see many open shooters where I am, plus the guns are loud and hurt my ears. what if we just eliminate open, and add a subcompact division with a 6 round mag capacity limit. then we could get all those guys that shoot nanos and pf9's and lc9's and pm9's to run 32 round cof's with 6 reloads. Of course we'd have to change the rules to make it only 6 rounds from a single view, which would then make all the major revolvers un-obsolete again. Oh, and we could also have a rule that every range has to pipe in justin bieber music during matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Maximis228: What happens when someone shooting in their state in limited that has been reduced to 10 rounds then goes on to shoot in another state or a major match and is stuck shooting 10 round gear against people running huge stick mags? That hardly seems fair. Find loaner mags. Make it so you can modify your mags to allow more when you go out of state. Given what people spend on mag tuning to make sure that the combo of later, ammo and mags all play nicely together, that's a terrific suggestion. Perhaps you should consider making loaner mags available to everyone for every major match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 i personally would love to see some way of combining ss and L10. I would even be happy to see it use existing SS capacity rules (10 minor/8 major). I'm not sure why the original old dudes thought it was so important to have the holster restrictions, but I'd be ok with that too. 1911's are already seriously competitive in L10, so I think you'd still see plenty of them. I know I'd continue to shoot one. Might be interesting to see how many cz/unicorn shooters would opt for 10-round minor in such a division. but whatever. it also works to just make fun of l10 shooters and call then names until they man up and shoot a real division. it's probably not a good idea to do ANYTHING to production, except allow stippling for the poor saps that shoot crappy plastic guns. Well I am an old dude so no offense taken. I have stated numerous times in this forum the logic behind each and every part of the 1911 single stack division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 I have stated numerous times in this forum the logic behind each and every part of the 1911 single stack division. Yes, you have, and I appreciate it. Unfortunately, I'm catching up to you in age, so I don't remember the specifics, lol. not like it matters since i have the exact same draw whether it's from a drop offset holster in front of my hipbone or a belt ride holster behind my hipbone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Because sometimes the stuff on the podcast is just to stir stuff up and has no real merit. Putting out that many shows you're bound to dump out some bad ideas. A better way to say it would be why not get rid of SS and L10 and fold them into Prod. I can think of fun reasons to do so, but nothing compelling enough to make a nation wide organization change something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickBlasta Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Maximis228: What happens when someone shooting in their state in limited that has been reduced to 10 rounds then goes on to shoot in another state or a major match and is stuck shooting 10 round gear against people running huge stick mags? That hardly seems fair. I'd be interested to see data on how often this actually happens. That is, L10 people traveling out of a ban state to shoot matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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