bret Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 When you buy ammo from a manufacturer that doesn't pass chrono, what is their responsibility if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Are you talking about official match ammo or commercial off the shelf ammo? Sent from the range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 It was a guy I know that bought ammo from a commercial reloader, well known. Not sure if it was the match ammo for that match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 They don't really have *any* responsibility. From a business standpoint, one could go somewhere else, or actually chrono the ammo beforehand. If you take the same ammo and chrono it in 10 different guns, you may get vastly different results depending on the gun,barrel measurements, type of rifling, and who knows what else. Maybe your friend has a slow gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotMRD Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 If it isn't official match ammo. The responsibility falls on the shooter because they didn't verify power factor prior to the match. The manufacturer bears no responsibility for that. If it was official match ammo, it should be counted as minor regardless of what chrono readings are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 He went to an out of state match, not sure how you can chrono your ammo before you get to the chrono stage. This is why it's a good idea to load your own ammo and take it with you. He was shooting a CZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Everything is your responsibility. Match ammo or roll your own. 5.8.1.2 Official match ammunition purchased by competitors is deemed to be competitor equipment. Malfunctions will not be grounds for a reshoot and/or an appeal to Arbitration. 5.1.8.5 Match Officials reserve the right to conduct chronograph or other tests on all and any ammunition at any time, and a reason not be given 5.8.2 Where possible, match organizers (or their nominated vendor at the match) should make available a test firing bay, supervised by a Range Officer, where competitors can function test a small quantity of official match ammunition of the same batch through their handgun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 He went to an out of state match, not sure how you can chrono your ammo before you get to the chrono stage. This is why it's a good idea to load your own ammo and take it with you. He was shooting a CZ. if he flew there, and had the ammo shipped directly there..... yah, not much you can do. I chrono my ammo a couple times on different days before any major match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't think or expect the match director or USPSA to do anything, my question is about what responsibility if any does the manufacturer of the ammo have. He went sub minor and shot for no score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Unless it's a question of injury liability, the manufacturer might replace your ammo as a customer satisfaction issue. It's the same as if you had some gun work done and your gun jams at a match. The gunsmith would hopefully repair it but has no responsibility to you for losing the match. It just means that you need to go elsewhere for a better ammunition company( or gunsmith) . If it happens a lot, that reloading company is out of business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Unless its official Match Ammo, its on the shooter's shoulders. The ammo maker might say its "major PF qualified" but until you shoot it through your gun, you won't know for sure. If it was ammo that was ordered and shipped to the match ahead of time, then the shooter should have ordered it early enough to test it themselves first to make sure it works ok then ship a batch to the end location. Aside from injury liability due to "faulty" rounds, the manufacturer wouldn't be responsible for anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) See 5.8 and appendix C3 in the rule book. But that only applies if the match allowed official match ammo and the shooter bought it from the match, not from the manufacturer. Either way, if it fails chrono it is still on the shooter. Edited August 19, 2015 by scottlep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Everything is your responsibility. Match ammo or roll your own. 5.8.1.2 Official match ammunition purchased by competitors is deemed to be competitor equipment. Malfunctions will not be grounds for a reshoot and/or an appeal to Arbitration. 5.1.8.5 Match Officials reserve the right to conduct chronograph or other tests on all and any ammunition at any time, and a reason not be given 5.8.2 Where possible, match organizers (or their nominated vendor at the match) should make available a test firing bay, supervised by a Range Officer, where competitors can function test a small quantity of official match ammunition of the same batch through their handgun As far as Chrono there are rules to protect the shooter of official match ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't know if it was official match ammo. He would have been better off buying ammo from wally world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 he would have been better off verifying that his ammo make PF. it would be pretty annoying to get burned by ammo that was advertised to make PF, but ultimately, if you want something done right, better verify that it's done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bret Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 he would have been better off verifying that his ammo make PF. it would be pretty annoying to get burned by ammo that was advertised to make PF, but ultimately, if you want something done right, better verify that it's done right. He bought an XL650 and a chronograph. If I am in a pinch and need ammo, I will not buy this brand of ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 It might make minor in your pistol. The only way to know is to chronograph it before the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seanc Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't know if it was official match ammo. He would have been better off buying ammo from wally world. It could not have been official match ammo, if it were he would be exempt from chronograph. See appendix C3. Not aware of how many matches aside from nationals really have this service though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 he would have been better off verifying that his ammo make PF. it would be pretty annoying to get burned by ammo that was advertised to make PF, but ultimately, if you want something done right, better verify that it's done right. He bought an XL650 and a chronograph. If I am in a pinch and need ammo, I will not buy this brand of ammo. Your friend finally got smart. If you do not chrono any ammunition you buy OR reload the fact that you might go minor is your fault. There is something to the old saying "let the buyer beware." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I don't know if it was official match ammo. He would have been better off buying ammo from wally world. It could not have been official match ammo, if it were he would be exempt from chronograph. See appendix C3. Not aware of how many matches aside from nationals really have this service though... My understanding is that they are not completely exempt from the chrono. If there is a discrepancy between the delivered match sample and the competitor's loads during the match, then the provisions of C-2, items 38 and 39 apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundevil827 Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) He went to an out of state match, not sure how you can chrono your ammo before you get to the chrono stage. No sure how you can chrono before getting to the chrono stage? Investing around $100 for his own chronograph. That's a pretty cheap investment if you reload, or if you want to run something else before a major match. It's up to you to know.... ***EDIT*** I saw a later post...if he flew there, and had ammo shipped there, not much he can do. My apologies for not reading down further! Edited August 19, 2015 by sundevil827 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmt Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What manufactured ammo has any text on their packaging claiming to make major or minor PF for USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 As Reagan Said: Trust but VErify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnote Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What manufactured ammo has any text on their packaging claiming to make major or minor PF for USPSA?Stuff like Atlanta arms or other companies specifically marketing to competition shootersAnd I have no idea to what company OP is referring , just used above name for an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 What manufactured ammo has any text on their packaging claiming to make major or minor PF for USPSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts