650XL press upgrades... Worth the cost, or a waste?

[mikeinctown]

I've seen the thread about the micrometer powder bar upgrade and the overwhelming response was that it is a worthwhile upgrade. However, there are several other which I'd like to get opinions on.

1) The first is a camming pin replacement. the camming pin scratches against the case insert slide as I move up and down and almost sounds like it is going to wear away the material. The upgrade pin has a small roller bearing which supposedly eliminates the need for any lubrication and would eliminate the scratching noise heard when operating the press. This kit has the pin I am talking about along with other parts http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-XL-650-Premium-Performance-Improvments-Kit-/321399781658?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ad4eb791a

2) Low mass detent ball and new spring. I've seen these separately rather than part of the kit as above. No idea if these actually work as advertised.

3) Shellplate bearing kit. again, there is a "bushing" shown in the kit above which to me actually makes more sense. However, I have seen the larger needle bearing kits. Are these more trouble than they are worth or a great idea and must have?

4) Roller lever. I know most people recommend the Dillon roller lever but I cam across this one on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/itm/ERGO-roller-lever-for-Dillon-650-reloading-press-/261500338350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce2a280ae made by in line fabrication, the handle is bent so that the handle is up closer to your natural standing position so that you do not need to bend at all (or lean)

5) spent primer chute kit. this kit includes a bolt on plastic part that a hose attaches to in order to funnel spent primers to a larger jar or bottle. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dillon-650-Spent-Primer-Chute-Kit-for-Dillon-650-Reloading-Press-/171385365409?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e75d23a1

6) Tool head lights. I've seen various versions of lighting including one that looks far superior to others. the light kit consists of a strip of lights by the powder check station and a machined light that fits in the center of the toolhead and is removable for toolhead changes. http://inlinefabrication.com/collections/dillon/products/skylighttm-led-lighting-kit-for-the-dillon-650

The company in line fabrication also has a host of other upgrades, so if you have used one of them and can either recommend or say forget it, the input would be very helpful.

thank you.

[RiggerJJ]

I have # 1, 2, 4, 5, and a cheap version of 6, just a small clamp-on halogen light I attach to the case feeder support rod. I feel they all help and are worth having.

Have decided for myself that #3 is probably hit or miss and not worth the trouble.

ymmv

jj

[Brassaholic13]

1, 5, 6.

[Arlin]

Mike:

I don't think you would be happy with he micrometer powder bar change. My experience is you will set the powder bar at one location and never change unless you have to change powders. I have separate tool heads for each caliber I load and duplicates in 38 super and 9mm depending on whether I shoot major or minor.

I've been using the same camming pin assembly since I've owned the machine and have kept a little grease on he surface of the insert slide, so far fifteen years now, no problems.

#2 don't bother see below.

I suggest the needle bearing modification. It will eliminate the jump associated with the original design and seems to negate the problem with the spring and detent ball.

I have the regular roller handles on my machines but the one you show may be an improvement.

I highly recommend the primer shoot kit. You won't be sorry you purchased this one.

Tool head lights, in my opinion, are good but I rely on my powder check system exclusively and have never had a problem.

Just my two cents.

Arlin

[ChuckS]

Bullet Feeder

[Sarge]

Bullet Feeder

Amen to that! I have a few of the upgrades and think they are great but the bullet feeder makes it a whole new ball game.

[The Donald]

Have the Inline handle a skylight on my 650, will add the spent primer chute and the roller caming pin, then it's bullet feeder time.

[stick]

#4 and a powder check die in station 3. Its worth its weight in gold.

[jmorris]

I had roller levers and strong mounts but got rid of them. I use the thrust bearing, powder check and bullet feeder. Of course the case collator.

[Handloader109]

I'm new to the 650XL, traded for it recently.

Loaded about 500 rounds of 9mm so far.

And I am actively making a few alterations to make things better and easier.

I WANT a roller handle. I haven't bought one, don't know which (Dillon, or the one you list or one I make myself) will be the one I choose.

#5 is worth a few dollars, I spent less than a dollar for two feet of 1/2 ID clear tubing and drilled out a 45 colt casing.

Fits into the slot perfectly. Have to put a clamp (I used a piece of wire) to keep hose on. Some others have used rifle casing which might be better as you could use a smaller hose and slide on the case. I'm NOT paying $25 for the kit.

#6 Lights. You have a hole in the toolhead. You can set a cheap Harbor Freight (or other flashlight) and it will work fine.

I had some LED strip lights I had purchased last year through eBay for a couple of $ to use on another project. roll of 10 feet you can cut into sections. Cut three sections about 6" long and using a discarded wall wart charger, soldered the wire to the strip and attached to a small strip of aluminum (light strip self adhesive back) that was shaped to fit under the top bolt of the case feeder. Cheap, cost me some time and I can see into a case easy.

#2, ball may or may not be worth it, I cut my spring already and put a HDPE bushing I made under the bolt. Helps but I still have some jerkyness. and may buy

#3 don't know if it will help. I hate losing powder due to motion.

No idea on #1 probably won't.

I just finished fabricating a micrometer powder measure. I had a straight micrometer I picked up a long time ago and never used.

I don't have a metal lathe, but I used my wood lathe and files to shape and drilled/tapped the micrometer and a screw to adapt.

Works well, and I DO use 4 different powders and five different bullets for my 9mm and this makes life easy to change between the bullets and the powders and keep track of settings. I Would have bought If I didn't have something I could make work.

[twodownzero]

5 is worth its weight in gold and saved me a LOT of irritation with the priming system on the 650

[mikeinctown]

#5 is worth a few dollars, I spent less than a dollar for two feet of 1/2 ID clear tubing and drilled out a 45 colt casing.

Fits into the slot perfectly. Have to put a clamp (I used a piece of wire) to keep hose on. Some others have used rifle casing which might be better as you could use a smaller hose and slide on the case. I'm NOT paying $25 for the kit.

I have a .45 Colt case and it seems just a bit too small to slide betwen the rails and actually sit there well. I can shove the nose end between the rails, so the primer end won't be snug enough. I've read of a perfect size rifle casing working but cannot remember which. (and I wouldn't have one anyway) I can see how this would be a big upgrade for people. I deprimered a couple hundred cases to see how the new workplace feels and I managed to get 3-4 spent primers not in the cup and it was already half full when I dumped it.

[rodell]

I have 1-5 and a micro led gooseneck for #6.

Each thing helps a little, together they help a lot. I was skeptical about the low mass ball but it does matter.

Edited September 23, 2014 by rodell

[cecil]

2 , 4, 5 & bullet feeder !!!

[Mikelindsey]

I have all the updates. I figure anything that makes things better and easier have to be worth the small price. Lug them all

[Handloader109]

#5 is worth a few dollars, I spent less than a dollar for two feet of 1/2 ID clear tubing and drilled out a 45 colt casing.

Fits into the slot perfectly. Have to put a clamp (I used a piece of wire) to keep hose on. Some others have used rifle casing which might be better as you could use a smaller hose and slide on the case. I'm NOT paying $25 for the kit.

I have a .45 Colt case and it seems just a bit too small to slide betwen the rails and actually sit there well. I can shove the nose end between the rails, so the primer end won't be snug enough. I've read of a perfect size rifle casing working but cannot remember which. (and I wouldn't have one anyway) I can see how this would be a big upgrade for people. I deprimered a couple hundred cases to see how the new workplace feels and I managed to get 3-4 spent primers not in the cup and it was already half full when I dumped it.

If you loosen up the two screws, slide the case into the slot and then tighten up the screws, the case can't budge.

[cbrconst]

5, defnitly' 5

Plus shell plate position pin tabs cut from coffee can lid plastic

Plus LED light strip kit from Pep Boys automotive

[Jmo2011]

Could you elaborate on the coffee can lid plastic a bit?

[RiggerJJ]

You can get the tabs for the locator pins from Dillon for not much money, or make your own. the pins are pushed thru them to make them easier to remove and handle...

jj

[Oskino]

I installed the shellplate bearing kit today. Def a nice upgrade, get it!!

[StealthyBlagga]

I have 3 (McMaster-Carr), 4 (Dillon) and 5 (UniqueTek) - all bring value.

No experience with the other items, but...

1 seems unnecessary (if the cam ever wears out, it is a free replacement from Dillon).

2 is something I'd like to try when I get around to it.

6 is not really needed as I have a powder check die and a hand-held LED light as a backup

Edited October 1, 2014 by StealthyBlagga

[Mikelindsey]

I have all the upgrades. After about a months use I took the roller bar off and put the stock pin back on. I never could get the roller to stay in the right position.

The only thing I don't have but would love feedback on is the bullet feeder. I'm still pretty new at this and go slower than most but which bullet feeder and why? Am I really going to speed things up on my 650 with one?

[gigs]

I sell most of these, so keep in mind that potential bias. That said, I'll try to be objective, since I'm also a user of several Dillon machines running 20,000-30,000 cycles per week or more doing brass prep for 5.56 and 300 blackout.

1. Roller cam pin. I get these from showshooz, the same guy selling them on ebay and amazon, and sell them myself at ballistictools.com I think it's a worthwhile upgrade, but not a "must have". The cam pin does wear a groove in the cam, as well as becoming "fig shaped" on the end (if you adjust it often), or lopsided if you never turn it. The roller cam also seems to make the movement of case insertion a little bit less jerky, which can help prevent station 1 insertion jams.

I'd rate the roller cam improvement a 5/10, nice to have but not absolutely necessary.

2. Low mass detent ball and/or reduced rate spring: Reduced spring... No, just no, for so many reasons. Low mass detent ball, absolutely recommended for both 650 and 1050. Dillon's steel ball bearings they use for detent are not all that hard in my experience and do wear out (although you might not ever get enough cycles on your machine to see it). The polymer detent balls, either phenolic or delrin, do reduce snap considerably and last nearly as long as the stock balls. If you go with a low mass detent ball, make sure it's phenolic or delrin, there's a few ebay sellers selling balls made of much less tough plastics which won't last long. I sell phenolic for the 650 and delrin for the 1050, and use them myself. Both materials wear very well, as well as steel in this application. I also sell replacement steel detents that are harder than Dillon's if you'd prefer extra long life, and don't care as much about snap or use a bearing that is working to reduce your shellplate snapping (and don't want to buy 100 of them from mcmaster).

Low mass detent ball, 10/10 highly recommended, reduced spring 3/10, not recommended.

3. Bearing kits. I've never used the bronze bushing type bearing. The needle bearing really isn't any thicker than the bronze, especially since you can leave one end plate off of it if you want. This is a very worthwhile upgrade for the 650, and a marginal upgrade for the 1050. Unless you never load 380 or 9mm or anything with a full case load, definitely get this for the 650.

Note regarding bearings on the 1050: It's extremely easy to damage your 1050 shell plate with a bearing kit installed if you set up your swage system so that it pop the shell plate up (or if you accidentally crash the swager into the shellplate with the toolhead removed). The bearing concentrates the stress if the shellplate flexes and can easily score the surface or cause it to become funnel shaped which will cause station one insertion problems, with as little as 10 thousandths of warpage.

The other thing about the 1050 is that the area on the shell plate where the nut retains it is much larger, and the nut seems to have finer threads than a 650 shellplate bolt, as well as 4 lock screws that can be tweaked to get the exact amount of shellplate drag that you need to prevent snapping.

I do sell 1050 roller bearings with the necessary o-rings, but I have stopped using them myself for the reasons cited above. Other large operations with a fleet of 1050s do swear by them, so it could have some value to you, just use with caution if you do use them.

I'd rate shellplate bearings a 9/10 must have for the 650, and a 3/10 not really recommended for the 1050.

4. Roller lever. Absolutely. When I first started my brass processing business I had the ball end handle. I almost had to get carpal tunnel surgery from it. Not really exaggerating. Do yourself a big favor and absolutely get the roller handle if you are loading more than 50 rounds at a time.

I also recommend the foam grip. It's tougher than it looks in the pictures, it's almost like a wetsuit material. Get it from me or Uniquetek. That helps cushion the impacts that are really hard on your wrist. I give the roller handle and the foam grip a 10/10 absolutely must have on a hand pulled press.

5. Spent primer chute kit. This is very nice to have for the 550 and 650 because it's tricky to mount a tube on the press to catch primers otherwise. No more spilling a cup full of primers, or even worse, breaking an index ring because you let it get overfull and the shellplate jammed. On the 1050, just cut off a 223 casing, jam it in the spent primer hole and hose clamp a hose onto it.

8/10 very nice to have for 650 and 550, 1/10 DIY instead for 1050.

6. Tool head lights. I can't comment on the one linked since I don't use it and never seen it in action. I think the ideal light would be a somewhat bright LED on a tiny flexible gooseneck clamped somewhere on the press. I'm not very impressed with Uniquetek's offering that goes in the center of the 650 toolhead. It really depends on what other kind of lighting you have available.

I'd call some sort of on-press lighting a 7/10 probably should have with no particular recommendation as to which one to use.

Edited October 2, 2014 by gigs

[mikeinctown]

Wow gigs, thanks for all the information and it looked to be very objective. At first I didn't think I would need to purchase the roller lever but after running a few hundred cases just through the deprime and resize die, I have to say that I can understand why people would recommend one of these. I did see the foam handle thing but thought it would look like that cheap foam that dry rots and falls apart after a short time. Good to know what it actually feels like. I'll probably be ordering at least a few of your store items in the near future.

Regarding the shellplate bearings though, it is my understanding that when you use the actual bearing kit that you need to bend or somehow resize the ejection clip that used to fit on the bolt. From what I have read, when using the bushing it is the same size as the bolt was so that you don't have to rebend the ejection clip. I have experience with this type of material and while it is impregnated with oil, applying some approved oil to the surface almost gives them a slickness similar to a bearing. not quite, but close. Might it pay to buff the shellplate up on a buffing wheel?

Thank you to everyone else who has also put in their comments so far!

[gigs]

Oh yes, I didn't think of that, the bronze bearing would allow you to move the wire all the way back down to the normal position. I've never run it so I can't really say how it compares to the bearing. If you bend your ejection wire just a little it works with the bearing, but I know some are reluctant to do that.