Skydiver Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So 6.9 inches of sight radius improved by another 0.4 inches would make a 7.3 inch sight radius... 0.4 / 6.9 = .0579 = 5.79% less error in your sight pictures assuming you're shooting perfect sight pictures Ken, You're looking at it wrong. If you're shooting perfect sight pictures then sight radius is not important as all groups would be the same. If the gun is capable of shooting a 1.5" group at 25 yards and you shoot perfect sight pictures you will always achieve a 1.5" group, it doesn't matter if your sight radius is 1" or 20". What more sight radius does is give you less error when your sight picture is not perfect. Assume a sight alignment error of .10" low (half the height of a typical 1911 front sight) when the shot breaks. If your sight radius is 6.9" the bullet is off by .10" for every 6.9" traveled. With a 6.9" sight radius your shot will be 4.35" below your point of aim at 25 yards. With a sight radius of 7.3" inches it would be low by 4.11", 0.24" less. It seems like a very little difference but consider if your target is an 8" plate at 25 yards. 4.35" low misses the plate but 4.11" low catches the bottom edge of it. A minor, yet measurable difference. Or look at it this way, how many hits on paper have you had that just missed the higher scoring ring? Your 5.79% increase in accuracy (really a decrease in error) means that for the same sight picture every hit that was 3/4 of a bullet diameter away or less would have scored the higher zone. Damned English system... Why didn't we convert to metric... Anyway the numbers don't seem to work out for me. What am I doing wrong? 25 yards = 75 feet = 900 inches 900 / 6.9 = 130.43 900 / 7.3 = 123.29 130.43 * 0.1 = 13.043 inches 123.29 * 0.1 = 12.329 inches 13.043 - 12.329 = 0.714 inch It seems that at 25 yards the difference will be almost 3/4 of an inch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I love this "fit in the box" pictures... (I know its for a now defunct IPSC division, but it still brings a smile to my face about how much "out of the box" thinking went into making it fit into the box.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T Bacus Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Damned English system... Why didn't we convert to metric... Anyway the numbers don't seem to work out for me. What am I doing wrong? 25 yards = 75 feet = 900 inches 900 / 6.9 = 130.43 900 / 7.3 = 123.29 130.43 * 0.1 = 13.043 inches 123.29 * 0.1 = 12.329 inches 13.043 - 12.329 = 0.714 inch It seems that at 25 yards the difference will be almost 3/4 of an inch. You're right. I should never attempt math! In all my calculations I went 25 yards X 12 inches per yard, forgetting to convert to feet first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GmanCdp Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Stats for the up coming Double Tap in Texas .. Division Totals Division Count CLASSIC 65 Limited 127 OPEN 92 Production 98 SINGLE STACK 34 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1soldier Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Anyone going to show up to SS nationals with a 5.4? I'm tempted to, just to see how it goes. I don't see myself winning anything so worst case I switch to my backup gun and shoot for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Can't wait for someone to show up at SSN with a 5.4" single stack and see how Dick Heinie reacts to that. Something tells me it's not going to go over too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mach1soldier Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I would be willing to bet no one notices until you put it in the box.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'll be your Huckleberry..............my SV 5.4 Single Stack is being finished in the next couple of weeks.....I am not attending SS nationals this year but will be attending a bunch of other match's with it. I would have no problems showing up to SS nationals with it and shooting it. It fits the box and makes weight.....what seems to be the problem? That someone thought of a new way to improve the product that a certain match director never thought of? So is it just an ego thing with him? I have to give Gary Stevens credit-he was originally against the idea till we went round and round with a rational, logical discussion on the topic. At the end, he gave credit to SV for putting a lot of thought and effort into making sure that the gun fits the specifications of the Division. He just never thought that anyone would ever do something like this, so it never crossed his mind when he was the force behind the initial setup of the rules for the Division. Roy Neal Team SV Infinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) Well when you get down to the bottom line it is a 1911. While I have tried to keep the Division from morphing into something unrecognizable, I don't think this innovation will break the Division. The box is the limiting factor in many of these ideas. Glad I thought of it:) Thanks for the kind words Roy. Edited April 2, 2015 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 I'm fine with the 5.4", although some of the "purists" will certainly have a problem with it. But if 5.4" is ok, then what's the justification for restricting .40 to eight rounds, when a standard length magazine holds 9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 Standard mags in Production guns hold more than 10. Standard revolvers exist that hold 7/8 and can make major. Can make major with 9mm in a Limited gun too. BUT, The rules that define the division say what's ok and not. Box has existed for some time; not a rule change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 That may be true, but I believe the single stack division rules essentially evolved from the 1911 Society rules, which limited the guns to "traditional" 1911 design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 2, 2015 Share Posted April 2, 2015 (edited) The rules, as I have stated many times, were a merging of 1911 Society Rules, IDPA Rules, and USPSA Rules. Holding major at 8 rounds allows 9mm guns to compete on a somewhat level field, and allows all other 1911's to compete equally. Edited April 2, 2015 by Gary Stevens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I'm fine with the 5.4", although some of the "purists" will certainly have a problem with it. But if 5.4" is ok, then what's the justification for restricting .40 to eight rounds, when a standard length magazine holds 9? There's no such rule. You can load up to 9, declare minor, and blaze happily away..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Point is, it's an arbitrary rule, the purpose being to level the playing field. Basically, the goal was to make something like an IROC race series where it was a skill contest instead of an equipment race. Having 9 rounds instead of 8 is an advantage. Having a 5.4" gun instead of a 5" gun is an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Glad you know what my goal was as I created the Division and wrote the rules. FWIW, you are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Point is, it's an arbitrary rule, the purpose being to level the playing field. Basically, the goal was to make something like an IROC race series where it was a skill contest instead of an equipment race. Having 9 rounds instead of 8 is an advantage. Having a 5.4" gun instead of a 5" gun is an advantage. And a stage design is like a race track. A close hoser stage makes the sight advantage of a longer gun worthless. A standards style stage with tight shots and no shoots reward major over minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Ok Glad you know what my goal was as I created the Division and wrote the rules.FWIW, you are wrong. Ok, sorry about that. Guess I misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Gary.....your welcome for the kind words. It was only the truth....... Now remember that next week at Battle in the Bluegrass!!!!!!!!! Otherwise, the keys to your golf cart may go missing (again). Just saying......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 Fits the box, 8 major and 10 minor. OK. Sounds reasonable to me. I just wish there was room for some of the other classic guns like the Hi-Power to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted April 6, 2015 Share Posted April 6, 2015 I just wish there was room for some of the other classic guns like the Hi-Power to play. Ditto. Not being able to play in SS made selling my P220ST a little easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 You could always find an IPSC match where Classic Division allows other platforms that are not 1911's and are single stack's to play. Sig P220's, HKP7's for example...........Just a thought.........1911's still rule the roost but it does allow them to come out and play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Having a 5.4" gun instead of a 5" gun is an advantage. Really? Is that why no one shoots a 5" gun in limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltdmstr Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Um, I dunno. Why don't you do a poll and see how many people think a longer sight radius is an advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Um, I dunno. Why don't you do a poll and see how many people think a longer sight radius is an advantage? I don't care what people *say* they think on the internet. If you look at what people actually shoot at the national level, it seems like a mix of 5", 5.5" and 6" guns. If it was really an advantage, there would be no 5" guns in limited in the top 20 or so, but there are a LOT of them. That tells me it's more of a personal preference thing than an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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