amish_rabbi Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 so ruling is that since a 5.4" gun can fit in the box its good to go for IPSC classic div, I'm not as familiar with USPSA but looking at the rules it seems like there is no reason that it wouldnt also be legal for USPSA (assuming weight) curious if anyone who knows the rules better than me can see why it wouldnt be legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poolguy Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Maximum size Handgun and all maga- zines Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16 x 6 x 1 5/8 (tolerance +1/16, -0) (8.938 x 6 x 1.625) (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The USPSA box is slightly larger than the IPSC box but I don't think a 5.4" slide 1911 meets the criteria of "Only production type pistol" per the Special Conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Hmmm thats true, but SVI do produce specific 5.4" barrels and slide so perhaps that covers it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Even if it fits the box which I do not believe it will. Or make weight for that matter. The following would cover it IMHO "Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal" http://www.uspsa.org/document_library/rules/2014/Feb%202014%20Handgun%20Rules.pdf Edited April 11, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 "Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public andhave their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal" How does that relate to barrel length? The rules specifically mention barrel lengths shorter than 4.2 inches, which obviously wasn't the original design length. Also there have been plenty of 6" production type pistols, so would there be any rule against shortening a 6" gun to fit the box? Or does SVI making 5.4" guns make them production type already? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Yes the 6" and the 5.4 will not fit the box so the rest is moot. But I would argue that the 5.4 is not a duplicate of any factory original. Trimming the 6" to fit the box is entering into reductio ad absurdum. Edited April 11, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'm not sure if that rule does cover it, having a longer (or shorter) barrel and slide on a pistol does not mean it no longer has a basis on the original design, its not like you changed the way it works. And the 5.4" is available from SVI to the general public, and they are a factory, so that is that part. Why dont you think it would fit the box when a standard gun with a little trimming on the bevertail fits the box? The weight is the only thing I see that would be a challenge to hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 (edited) Is a 5.4" "the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning"? The shorter variants provide no advantage, the longer variants do. So again that part of the argument is rendered moot. In MY OPINION it will not pass muster and does not meet the rule definition. However, I say give it a shot! I believe it will fail under that rule but there is only one true way to find out. Take it to a match and see if you can get it passed inspection. I believe that if you were to attempt to get that gun into the likes of the WSSSC it would be disallowed under the rule I cited. ETA: Another argument that could be made of the shorter variants is the Colt Commander (M15) was adopted by the military in 1972. None of the longer variants have been, thus keeping with the "Service Pistol" designation. Edited April 11, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yagi Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 This is one of the very good reason why i shake my head when it comes to IPSC Classic vs USPSA Single Stack ruling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ummm Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 andhave their basis in the original By this requirement, a 2011 would be legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROY NEAL Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I have the first SV 5.4 Sight Tracker and it does fit the USPSA and IPSC box with ease. That is the wide body version, so what do you think the odds are of the SS version fitting into the box???? If it fits in the box and makes weight, what is the issue? There is no one stopping anyone else from utilizing this specific size of pistol so yes, they are available to the general public. Since I will be at the factory next month, I just might have to order one......hmmmmmmm...... R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 Your sight tracker is what made me think of it. I will most likely be having one built since I usually only shoot IPSC anyways, no weight there Let me know what Brandon says about if he can have it make weight or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal. That's the rule. If you think a 5.4 or 2011 meets that. Go nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 As always the answer is an easy email away... email NROI and ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 As always the answer is an easy email away... email NROI and ask them. Where's the sport in that?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted April 18, 2014 Author Share Posted April 18, 2014 As always the answer is an easy email away... email NROI and ask them. not currently a USPSA member... whats the email? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 18, 2014 Share Posted April 18, 2014 (edited) John Amidon dnroi@uspsa.org Edited April 18, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R2KBA Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 (edited) Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal. The key words here are "type" and "basis". I take that to meaning Function and Operation. A barrel length of 4.8, 5, or 6 inches doesn't negate the basis and type of the J.M Browning original design. So as long it fits the box and is within the weight limit, it should be legal.... IMHO Edited April 20, 2014 by R2KBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 20, 2014 Share Posted April 20, 2014 service pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Hey rabbi, You ever hear back from Amidon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Most people have trouble making weight with a 5" gun now you wanna make weight with a extra 1/2" of metal :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 2, 2014 Author Share Posted May 2, 2014 still waiting on a reply from USPSA this makes weight, so its possible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 I may be crazy but isn't there a rule staring barrel length may not exceed 5.1 imches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Inches, sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now