steel1212 Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Rob all I see is that it must fit the box. The commander sized guns can have bill barrels but I didn't see anything on size the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakobi Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Not that I can find. The only rule that would limit barrel length is that it has to fit in the box and the interpertation of special conditions in Appendix D5 -Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 only length rule I could find was how short the barrel has to be before it can be a bull barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 IMO, 5.4 does not conform to JMB original ideas of a 1911. When in doubt check out Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on the Colt 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 If it fits in the box and makes weight and has a bushing barrel, it's legal. By the standard that many of you would use, a full length guide rod, ambies, beavertail, or dovetail sights would make a gun illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 You should have your "Single Stack Elitist" card revoked. I am down with going all purist and ditch the ambi's and $hit but if you think the 5.4 is based in the "Service Pistol" rule then more power to ya! I am going to email Amidon myself. It should not have taken this long for a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Email sent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Seems to me that "must have their basis in the original 1911..." is not the same as saying it must match the original design. Having a basis in something means evolution of the original design is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Again my argument is based in the "Service Pistol" designation but at this point is moot until Amidon responds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I eagerly await Amidon's ruling. This is interesting, as I have always thought there was some rule that said barrel cannot be more than .10 longer than factory length. Maybe that's a production division rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) still no reply on my end, not sure how long a reply should take though if its not legal, I am interested to see the reasoning as to why. Edited May 7, 2014 by amish_rabbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Me neither. I would guess that this is a bigger topic than I first thought and is taking a little while to reach a consensus. It's a nail-biter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I eagerly await Amidon's ruling. This is interesting, as I have always thought there was some rule that said barrel cannot be more than .10 longer than factory length. Maybe that's a production division rule? It is a Production rule for replacement barrels. From App D4, 21.3: BARRELS: Current rules remain in effect - you may replace the barrel with an OFM or aftermarket barrel which is of the same length, contour and caliber as the original barrel for that model of gun. Special Notes/Clarifications: For purposes of this interpretation, a barrel within +/- 0.1” of OFM is “the same length”. Barrels of the same length, contour and caliber but with different crown profiles are authorized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I eagerly await Amidon's ruling. This is interesting, as I have always thought there was some rule that said barrel cannot be more than .10 longer than factory length. Maybe that's a production division rule?Would someone please send the noob a rulebook? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 So we're accepting the gun conforms to the first part of the rule - "only 1911 production type pistols" ... But then saying it doesn't have "basis in the original 1911 service pistol"? How can it be one without being the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Service pistol implies military adoption and designation. I.E. M1911, M1911A1, M15 etc. Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Out of curiosity, do the guns with the 5.4" barrel have longer slides also, or does the barrel just stick out farther than normal ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 see the picture I posted on page 1, they have a full slide on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moltke Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) IMO, the qualifying factor in the sentence is not "service pistol", because "service pistol" is a descriptor of the 1911 from which all these guns in question are designed, even the 2011. The qualifying factor is whether the gun is "based on" the original 1911 service pistol design. The guns don't have to be actual "service pistols", or even original "service pistol" configuration, or their exact model adopted as "service pistols" by any military. They just have to be "based on" the original 1911 service pistol design, and this is obviously "based on" the 1911 service pistol design... it just has a longer barrel & slide. But if it still fits in the box, and still meets weight (does it actually?) ... I'd be hard pressed to nail anyone on it. Edited May 7, 2014 by Moltke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 What a cliffhanger! I'm building a new SS rig soon and I'd love for it to be a 5.4". I know I can fit one in the box, and easily make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 5.4inch single stack 40s&w.....hummmmmmmmmm (scratches chin, shakes head while dialing George up to talk over things....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) IMO, the qualifying factor in the sentence is not "service pistol", because "service pistol" is a descriptor of the 1911 from which all these guns in question are designed, even the 2011. The qualifying factor is whether the gun is "based on" the original 1911 service pistol design. The guns don't have to be actual "service pistols", or even original "service pistol" configuration, or their exact model adopted as "service pistols" by any military. They just have to be "based on" the original 1911 service pistol design, and this is obviously "based on" the 1911 service pistol design... it just has a longer barrel & slide. But if it still fits in the box, and still meets weight (does it actually?) ... I'd be hard pressed to nail anyone on it. While I respectfully disagree it is moot until Amidon renders his opinion. Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entropic Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) If it fits in the box and makes weight and has a bushing barrel, it's legal. By the standard that many of you would use, a full length guide rod, ambies, beavertail, or dovetail sights would make a gun illegal. Bingo. SVI even lists the 5.4" gun as "USPSA SS Legal". Also, square trigger guards are legal and not the original design or available on service pistols (that I know of). Edited May 7, 2014 by entropic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Would love a link to where is says that on their site as I can't find it. And I think I will wait for conformation from NROI before I run out and buy a SVI 5.4" barrel length, Proprietary Pistol Design. http://www.sviguns.com/7101.php Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 By the strict interpretation of "service pistol" proposed above the commander and officer model guns should not be allowed. If the 5.4" is supposed to be illegal we need a smaller box. Interested in Amidon's response. I just looked briefly at SVI site and didn't see where the 5.4" is shown as SS legal. Do you need to be logged into gun builder to see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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