entropic Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Would love a link to where is says that on their site as I can't find it. And I think I will wait for conformation from NROI before I run out and buy a SVI 5.4" barrel length, Proprietary Pistol Design. http://www.sviguns.com/7101.php It is available to the general public. Go into gunbuilder and select 5.4" single stack. It claims it is legal and is the longest that will fit in the USPSA box. I'm inclined to believe them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) Indeed it does: "Template Description:USPSA/IPSC Legal 5.4 inch Single Stack. This is the longest sight radius pistol that will fit the USPSA/IPSC box." Still waitin' for Amidon. Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 oh look what I started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieTheCat Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 This is so exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 oh look what I started The gamer in me wants to build a new gun. The purist in me wants the 5" to be the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 oh I'm already going to have one built, Its IPSC legal I just want to know if I need another top end for shooting USPSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) oh look what I started The gamer in me wants to build a new gun. The purist in me wants the 5" to be the limit. Agreed, gamers gotta game! I don't see a whole lot of room for purism when production allows G34s and stock 2s. SS already allows shortened 1911s with bull barrels- nothing pure about that! Edited May 7, 2014 by MikeRush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 From Amidon: The box is the barrel length meaning there is no length stipulated as the box is the deciding factor as long as everything else meets the criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) There it is. I would suggest removing/editing this qualifying descriptor then: "Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal" Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 From Amidon: The box is the barrel length meaning there is no length stipulated as the box is the deciding factor as long as everything else meets the criteria. Just made my day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D__ Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 USPSA is 5.11 and legal already... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 There it is. I would suggest removing/editing this qualifying descriptor then: "Only 1911 production type pistols. Must be available to the general public and have their basis in the original 1911 service pistol as designed by John M. Browning. Pistols made from components that duplicate the factory originals are acceptable. Frames must be metal" So you are reading this that all 1911's most be 5 inch guns? based on what you are "reading" would a 1911A1 not be legal then? what about beavertails, ambi's, fiber optics, magwells, flat mainspring housings, dovetails, three hole triggers, full length guide rods what about guns with a light rail? or aren't all of those built off the basis of the original design, just like a 4inch gun, a 4 1/4 in gun, or a 5 1/4 inch gun would be as long as it is less than 43oz with a empty mag and fits the box. without external slide lightening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StraightUp_OG Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 (edited) So if it is the box then then the rest of this qualifier is not important outside of the frame being metal. It opens it up to more interpretation and I am not rehashing my arguments before the ruling. If you would like to know how I interrupted it please feel free to re-read this thread. Looks like I am building a 5.4! Edited May 7, 2014 by StraightUp_OG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Here is what I sent him John, Jake Martens here SC in Indiana, I have a 1911 gun rules question. If a 5.4 inch bushing barrel Single Stack makes weight and fits the box is it legal in single stack? Saw nothing in the rules on barrel length as long as it fits the box, can you please advise this was his response: The box is the barrel length meaning there is no length stipulated as the box is the deciding factor as long as everything else meets the criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 SVI 5.4" slide sales increasing by 6000%? Is it feasible to cut down a 6" and recut the bushing grooves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amish_rabbi Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 I feel like I should be getting a cut from SVI on all single stack 5.4" guns just based on me making this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 As Flex would always state, that is John's opinion/interpretation of the rules, that doesn't make the Rule until the BOD says it is. Rich As a side note, I believe the box was originally intended for Production Div. and was a mix between the IPSC box and the idpa box and the longest Production legal gun at the time. SS fell in to this box to make things easier. Gary Stevens would know why the box is the size it is and why SS uses the USPSA Box. SS should be a 5.1" barrel length as per the original M1911 drawings, if it is "fit the box" I don't mind building new guns for all of those looking for that 1/2"+ additional sight radius. Using the box will have spur grip safeties and ground down main spring housings to gain a little more sight radius the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Like rich said, until it's in the rule book as stating such you will be subject to interpretations. Maybe it will help some of you make major :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGO Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 So does this mean we can have longer slides to go with those barrels or must the box length barrel extend forward of a 5" slide?? This brings up many other questions..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 So does this mean we can have longer slides to go with those barrels or must the box length barrel extend forward of a 5" slide?? This brings up many other questions..... He sure isn't very clear is he? I will send him some follow up questions PM me if you have a specific ones you are thinking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Opinion here, but I think we have enough boxes. Between USPSA, IDPA, and IPSC there are 3 different boxes and standards. Also, maybe I need to be schooled on my history, but something like this may or may not have occurred with production "service" style guns. Glock makes 17, then later a target "longslide" 17L. 17L doesn't fit the boxes, so Glock stops regular production of it in favor of the G34 which is designed to fit the box with little room to spare. That becomes perfectly acceptable. Current rage in production seems to be the Stock 2 and Stock 3 with roughly 4.5 and 4.75 inch barrels respectively. The weight is on the complete other end of the spectrum compared to the Glock, but championships have been won with short, heavy CZ pattern guns and light, long plastic pistols. If someone wants to maximize within the rules why stop them? It hasn't lead to only 1 type of gun on the podium in production. What about limited? 5"s, 5.4"s and 6"s have all been legal, along with trackers barrels, bull barrels, bushing barrels and you see a wide variety in the top 16 and certainly in all levels of the sport. I don't think the 5" has been dethroned there... pick a standard and let people use what works best for them. Either way gear doesn't win matches, people do and while many people may build a 5.4" I don't think it will obsolete everything else. I understand the complaints about equipment race- but look at the "Production" nationals. Stock 2s run around $1700 here in CA, if you can find one. That's about what a 2011 costs! Maybe we can leave the box alone and come up with a true spec class, like Spec Miata in the racing world. Spec Hipoint division anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I can't see where just using a longer barrel would gain much, you would need the longer slide to give a little longer sight radius for any gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 As Flex would always state, that is John's opinion/interpretation of the rules, that doesn't make the Rule until the BOD says it is. Rich Except in this case it would appear to be an actual BOD approved rule. From the SS Appendix -- D5: 7--Maximum size Handgun and all magazines: Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (8.938” x 6” x 1.625”) (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm) And that's exactly what John's saying -- if it fits in the box, it's good to go..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRush Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) As far as cutting down a 6" to 5.4" this one was done beautifully and I think would be perfect: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=177137 Edited May 8, 2014 by MikeRush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) As Flex would always state, that is John's opinion/interpretation of the rules, that doesn't make the Rule until the BOD says it is. Rich Except in this case it would appear to be an actual BOD approved rule. From the SS Appendix -- D5: 7--Maximum size Handgun and all magazines: Yes, handgun with empty magazine inserted must fit wholly within a box with internal dimensions of 8 15/16” x 6” x 1 5/8” (tolerance +1/16”, -0”) (8.938” x 6” x 1.625”) (227.01mm x 152.40mm x 41.28mm) And that's exactly what John's saying -- if it fits in the box, it's good to go.....But no one on the BOD probably realized what fit the box could mean for SS Div. when written and now that it has been brought up they might want to clarify it. Rich Look what happened with Production Div. when some assumed the rules were clear and concise. Edited May 8, 2014 by RIIID Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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