3 gun sucking away uspsa shooters?

[Forgetful]

I've actually moved away from 3gun (which I started in) and more to uspsa.

Little bit of :

Zero affordable reloading rifle component available over the last 6 months

Easier to pack for uspsa

Easier to clean up from uspsa

Cheaper to shot uspsa

[Nik Habicht]

I think we're confusing "awards" and "prizes". An award is something you earned, like a plaque or trophy. The top shooters SHOULD get those! Donated items (prizes) should be distributed randomly so everyone has a chance. Like I said, I prefer the way the "other game" does it...JMHO

Errr you means besides the like 5 raffled guns? You mean besides that people like me in the bottom third walked away with +$300 of stuff?

Lets ignore that, I say I had a chance at anything on the table, I squandered it when I shot poorly.

That's the issue...you DIDN'T have a "chance at anything on the table" if you were competing for the first pick with a bunch of GMs and pro shooters! With a raffle, you do.

Of course he did -- he shot the same stages under the same rules and officiating, and he could have won the match......

.....that might have involved more practice, and money spent on the sport -- but he had the same opportunity to make those choices as any GM. That he chose or shot poorly in this context, doesn't change the fact that he had the same opportunity....

[HeyChris]

Having awards based on skill and finish is the logical way to make it.

Having said that, I would love to see a big sponsor choose to donate one large prize specifically for a random raffle at an event. (Not sure how often that happens) That seems like it would satisfy those that would like a chance at a larger prize who contribue to the sport but will never be at the skill level needed to be at the top.

Edited October 10, 2013 by HeyChris

[MarkCO]

That happens at almost every 3gun major...goes to ROs. I've won 4 guns and 3 high end optics in RO drawings.

[deerassassin22]

I wish I could afford 3 gun with me and my wife I'm looking at 500 bucks in most cases in match fees. I won't never see the prize table so USPSA for 40 bucks even a match every week is only 150bucks a month.

[HeyChris]

That happens at almost every 3gun major...goes to ROs. I've won 4 guns and 3 high end optics in RO drawings.

How often does that happen for competitors, that was what I was referring to.

[MarkCO]

I wish I could afford 3 gun with me and my wife I'm looking at 500 bucks in most cases in match fees. I won't never see the prize table so USPSA for 40 bucks even a match every week is only 150bucks a month.

Cheapest way to start is to volunteer to RO a major. You learn a ton, get a free match and in most cases, a stipend to free room and board.

[MarkCO]

That happens at almost every 3gun major...goes to ROs. I've won 4 guns and 3 high end optics in RO drawings.

How often does that happen for competitors, that was what I was referring to.

You mean consumer competitors? It happens too, but not as much. ROs in 3Gun ARE also competitors.

[HeyChris]

You mean consumer competitors? It happens too, but not as much. ROs in 3Gun ARE also competitors.

I understand RO's are also competitors, and if you ask me.. they should earn every perk possible for working the event and putting up with shooter's grief.

I'd include them as well in terms of being eligible for a random drawing. Like I said, not sure how often it happens.. but to see something like your registration also includes an entry for a random drawing for a new (insert badass item) would be a nice bonus if sponsors choose to have one of their prizes dispersed like that.

Back to the topic, i'm new to the competitive scene, since the start of the year. I was drawn first to 3-Gun because of the great marketing of the sport and the fact it allowed me to play with more of my toys. While I also shoot USPSA, if I had a choice among the two on a single weekend, I'd select 3-Gun. And whether it is true or not, I sort of look at USPSA as old and 3-Gun new, even though it has been around for awhile. As others have said, I think it goes back to the great marketing that is being done for 3-Gun... I see it advertised all over the place and being on TV doesn't hurt either.

Edited October 10, 2013 by HeyChris

[steel1212]

So what is the "other sport". Just want to know so I don't accidentally compete in it. Oh well I guess compete would be the wrong word. Should I say enter for a chance to win.

LOL...I didn't think we were allowed to cross-mention the sports in the other's forum, but it starts with an "I"...

Is IS a competition, but they separate "awards" and "prizes"...

UMMM bill this isn't the other game. The other game doesn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of prizes. In this sport you win what you earn. It seems 3 gun doesn't agree with you.

[co-exprs]

Well the great thing is that there are lots of different competitions with lots of different ways to run awards and prize tables. Anyone can pick and choose the matches they like and can possition themselves for best results. Different approaches drive different behaviors in competitors and each method has it's pros and cons and with so many oppinions, someone will always take exception to all of them. Division seperated prize tables, combined prize tables, hybrid between the two, semi random with top prizes for top finishers, completely random, ect. Personally, I'm there to shoot my best. The fact that 3gun has prize tables to argue about is bonus.

[chevyoneton]

I just want the problem of being sucked away from USPSA by 3-Gun. Currently there is not enough 3-Gun around here to make that a problem as I am not able (or willing) to travel very far. I will never leave USPSA because I like shooting handguns that are not competetive in 3-Gun. Like SS & Revolver. I do like 3-Gun and if it came down to deciding between otherwise equal USPSA and 3-Gun matches, I will go to the 3-Gun match.

[kurtm]

I was runing a monthly 3-gun match, it was hard to get 30 shooters at any time. The monthly USPSA match at the same venue has been consistently in the 80s and 90s for the last two years. I would say it depends on where you are and the free time on weekends your customer base has, more than one sucking competitors away from the other.

As for Prizes, If I did this for the prizes I sure would shoot a lot more majors than I do. I quit attending the matches I didn't feel were fun. They have great big prise tables, but lack in other areas that just plain kills the fun for me.

As for USPSA, I can honestly say, for me, that the Multi-Gun nationals for the last 3 years has been the very best 3-gun match to attend in the Nation. I also enjoy the USPSA pistol matches because no matter what, the target presentation is the same for everyone and visible!

[Mbauer67]

I don't believe 3-gun is sucking away pistol shooters, I believe pistol shooters are walking away from the pistol only game because they realize how much better rounded your skills become at any shooting game after becoming a good 3 gunner.

Not to mention 3 gun doesn't have all those silly rules that the pistol matches have. Just put 2 one the brown.

[co-exprs]

I am as good as I will ever be with pistol. I've got miles and miles to go on rifle and shotgun.

[jsrn61]

I've always been interested in 3 gun, but no matches in my area. recently started driving 2 1/2 hours to a 3 gun club match. I will still shoot IDPA and USPSA when i can But 3 gun trips my trigger. The only thing i would like to see is the targets score the same as the other disciplines.

[B45C22]

It is pulling me away. For the first time ever, I left a 3-gun match with a gun off the prize table that was worth more than the cost of the trip. Never gonna happen with USPSA. I don't shoot for the prizes, but they sure make me feel better when I get a good one as a reward for a good performance.

[Jadeslade]

These things go in waves. The discipline needed to shoot well in a good USPSA match is high. And will always be. The idea you can go 3 Gun and do well attracts new shooters. It is fun to shoot 3 gun matches. What really separates matches is stage design and the shooting challenge. Some are more gifted at this than others. I find no fun in 3 Gun matches where everybody shoots the courses the same way. But pistol is same way. Kevin Imel's review of stage design for USPSA is very instructive and helpful. I don't think 3 Gun has taken away from USPSA matches around here. Most shooters I know add it to their matches they already shoot. There is a burgeoning profit motive in staging 3 Gun matches and that will eventually lead to a drop in participation as profit dips and becomes unpredictable. Only a few ranges have enough targets and personnel to stage 3 gun and pistol matches with regularity. If you want natural terrain, Rio Salado and Rockcastle are the best known. Local matches of any kind, 3 gun or USPSA are a labor of love. I like shooting out of cars and boats and helicopters(not flying) and these are practical skills and the matches that have this will prosper. USPSA needs an inspirational move at present, but the challenge of pistol shooting is forever and it will always be a competition friendly sport. 3 Gun not so much, because degree of difficulty. I like the idea of carbine only and shotgun only matches because then you have more stages and more varied arrays. Perhaps USPSA should have these types of competitions.

[Tuflehundon]

I was doing at least 2 USPSA matches a month. That is until last November when I finished building my rifle, and AR ammo became readily available again. After that I started shooting 3gun and have been ever since. I will shoot my 1st pistol only match for the 1st time in 6 months in a couple of weeks

[Kwontanamo]

"I like the idea of carbine only and shotgun only matches because then you have more stages and more varied arrays. Perhaps USPSA should have these types of competitions."

I would like that. During my last USPSA match I had the opportunity to speak with some of the more seasoned shooters. They had participated in 3 gun match the week prior and I think they said that they had a squad of 20 people and it took them like 2 hours ish for the squad to complete the first stage? or something like that. Probably not true at other ranges but that surprised me. Been reading through this topic and I must admit that I'm that guy who's trying to balance my time and finances between USPSA and 3-Gun...along with my career and grad school. Still need to save up for a shotgun and gear I need to finally be able to compete. Recently, I've been on the fence with just staying in USPSA and excelling in it.

[robg2008]

I shoot 3 gun and USPSA. However that is because the only 3 gun matches close to me are once a month at atlanta 3 gun. If there were more 3 gun matches close to me I would only shoot 3 gun. I greatly prefer it.

[Jadeslade]

I'm going to try and get up to those Atlanta 3 Gun matches. Saw the gear boxes at Area 6 and I love that range.

[pjb45]

We have two 3G and two USPSA matches a month. The size of of each match varies with no great predictor of how large each will be.

Most who shoot either one or the other, fewer shoot all 4 matches.

[CHA-LEE]

I am not a 3Gunner, I am a Pistol guy. So maybe I have a skewed vantage point of on this subject. I have observed a few 3Gun matches and even helped RO a couple 3Gun matches so its not totally unknown to me. I think that what 3Gun and dedicated Pistol matches primarily attract specific types of people or personalities.

Usually Pistol shooters are the type of people who want to explore and perfect a narrow band of shooting skills or equipment. They usually follow a performance exploration and improving path that hones their skills with a specific firearm to a the best they can. Basically the pistol shooters see themselves as specialists in their pistol craft.

Most of the 3Gunners I know and have observed are usually generalists. They usually switch up guns and gear on a regular basis to try new things or simply like to play with something different most of the time. Their gun handling and shooting performance skills are usually not honed to perfection like a dedicated pistol shooter, but they can usually pick up whatever firearm is laying around and do a decent job of using it in a 3Gun stage scenario. I would consider most 3Gunners as jack of all trades but masters of none kind of shooters.

In the shooting sports we are all consumers of a specific shooting type or style which is really nothing more than a "product" we are buying when we pay our match fee. Every "Product" is geared towards a specific audience or customer base. USPSA Pistol matches are geared towards specialists who want to hone their pistol craft to perfection. 3Gun matches are geared toward generalists that get an opportunity to interact with many different firearms and shooting challenges all at once. If a Generalist gets introduced to practical shooting by starting in a USPSA Pistol match they more than likely will gravitate to the 3Gun matches instead. Or the other way around for the Specialists.

Personally I could care less about shooting 3Gun matches. I have no interest in it mainly because I know that I couldn't put in the time, money or effort to learn it, train it, and execute at the level I would want to. Not unless I win the powerball and don't have to worry about holding down a normal 9-5 day job. I am still trying to learn how to shoot a pistol to its maximum potential and I really don't see an end in sight as the more I learn the more I realize how much i don't know. But this long pistol craft honing journey is what makes it fun for me. I am a specialist type of shooter and choose to focus my efforts on pistol craft. Even though I don't have an interest in 3Gun it does not mean that 3Gun is any less important or fun than a USPSA Pistol match. For the shooters who prefer to compete in 3Gun matches verses pistol matches I say "GO FOR IT!!!". This is why we have different gun games, different strokes for different folks. The only universal rule that should apply to all of these gun games is that they only happen with the dedicated volunteerism provided by the shooters. Pitch in and help to make your local shooting scene happen. Don't be a consumer and expect everyone else to cater to you because you paid a match fee which is usually less than the cost of the fuel you burned to drive to and from the range that day, or the cost of ammo you shot on a single stage. Regardless of the type of match you attend, pitch in and help make it happen!!!

[rvb]

That picture is a prize table at a 3 gun shoot? Wow. I've never seen anything like that. A huge thank you to the sponsors that made that happen.

Media Coverage goes a very long way in getting sponsors, a very long way

and 3gun Nation has done a excellent job of making a very watchable show and format for sponsors to be a part of

Hello USPSA

the excuse of nobody will watch people shooting a stage it is not good tv.......3gn has been able to take guys laying down and shooting 300-600 yard targets and make it work.

It is about the people that shoot it, what they are doing.

With cameras set up right a pistol stage can be exciting to watch, USPSA is just stuck in 1990's when it comes to advertising, promotions, and use of technology and they are getting passed up

with some minor improvements, practiscore could offer a real-time scoring capability, where everytime a score was saved, leaderboards updated. Maybe if that were accomplished, and with the right marketing/editing/presentation, the pistol side could be made as TV friendly as 3-gun. There's no reason it can't. Heck, reality-TV it up if that sells it, I know we have some personalities that would be fun to follow for a match.... it doesn't have to be just the supersquad on tv.

I "guess" what I am trying to say is, in the purest practical sense, a rifle and pistol have real history together. We added the bird buster in that mix for reasons I am not overly enthusiastic about. So there

I would shoot a Rifle/Pistol match in a heartbeat and leave my shotgun at home all year long if it was an option.

I would be all over pistol/rifle matches. But we have shotgun and shotgun-accessories companies sponsoring matches, so I don't see pisto/rifle becoming mainstream soon... one of these days I'm just going to have to suck it up and buy a shotgun and pretend to enjoy it long enough I convince myself it's true...