Why shoot L10 and which gear?

[ericjhuber]

I'm a rookie action shooter who is starting in Production and enjoying it very much. I like the challenge of using a Production gun with minor power factor and lots of reloads due to the 10 round mags. One of the things that has attracted me to USPSA shooting is not only the gun handling aspect of the game, but also the strategy when it comes to stage planning.

I think that might be why I really want to expand into Single Stack next. What's more fun than trying to figure out a stage plan with 10 round mags? Doing it with eight round mags!!!

I don't see all that many folks shooting L10 in my area and I'm guessing that's because of the gun law situation. We do have quite a few Single Stack shooters so I'll won't get any relief from getting thumped handily no matter where I shoot. I prefer it that way because watching the Jedi Masters and getting beaten by them helps make me better.

[bagdad45]

I have shot L-10 for about a year, including last year Area 2. I never thought I was hiding, in fact may classification is higher in L-10 than Limited, Production or SS. I actually started after a friend told me my gear wasn't competitive in Limited. My gear, Para P-14 45, extended mags getting 18+1 loaded, ghost holster, mag well, etc. Why did he think it was not competitive, because I couldn't load 22 +1 in my gun. I could only ever recall one stage ever that I had to reload and he did not, 22 round field course ending on steel. Even with 22 I would probably have reloaded going to steel just not to finish on slide lock with no extra rounds like he did. Generally all stages are 8 round friendly so everyone shooting limited reloads at 16 anyway. I never felt at a disadvantage and really just did it for something to do, did it for a year. Now shooting production after a long time shooting SS. I really wonder why more people don't shoot limited instead of Production. There are a few places mag limited but here in AZ load that Glock up to 20+ and have at it. Don't need competition holsters, lots of limited guys don't shoot with them, need fewer mags for the people just starting, 3 instead of 5, get a mag well or not.

I am not classified in Open but just bought a Baer Monolith I am going to get classified with. Never need more than 8 rounds at a time for a classifier.

[bigfish]

I think the "hiding out" aspect of it refers more to the people with suitable gear living in non-restricted states. I don't think anyone is "hiding out" for shooting L10 in a restricted state or because they think their gear might not be competitive in limited (.45 shooters or maybe a stock g35 shooting factory ammo for example. There are some people that would throw any poly gun in that category but that's not what this is about) but if you have a STI Edge or a CZ TS, or a P16.40 with 140mm mags and there are 15 or 20 limited shooters why would you want to be the only L10 guy there? Do you really like reloading that much and hate production division so much that you would rather spend the money on a limited gun and shoot your very own division?

[New4John]

My wife started shooting L10 this year for a totally different reason after shooting production for 2 years.

She primarily shoots 3 Gun now and it was hard jumping back and forth between her 3 Gun set up and production rig. Different weight, feel, no magwell, non-extended mags, etc.

She set up a G35 100% identical to her G34 that she uses in 3 Gun. Could she simply have shot the G34 as Limited (-)...sure, but if you're gonna play, you may as well get the advantage of Major PF.

Could she just shoot Limited (+) now, yep, but she gets more mag change practice in L10.

Makes sense I suppose, and I'm not arguing with her

Edited August 13, 2013 by New4John

[Rob01]

John that's another reason I had forgotten to post about gear position. I wanted to keep my mags in front and not have to have them all around the side hip area like production is required to do. Just wanted to keep it the same as my 3 gun rig. Just makes it easier.

[motosapiens]

I think the "hiding out" aspect of it refers more to the people with suitable gear living in non-restricted states. I don't think anyone is "hiding out" for shooting L10 in a restricted state or because they think their gear might not be competitive in limited (.45 shooters or maybe a stock g35 shooting factory ammo for example. There are some people that would throw any poly gun in that category but that's not what this is about) but if you have a STI Edge or a CZ TS, or a P16.40 with 140mm mags and there are 15 or 20 limited shooters why would you want to be the only L10 guy there? Do you really like reloading that much and hate production division so much that you would rather spend the money on a limited gun and shoot your very own division?

I guess I've never seen anyone with real limited equipment (20+ round capacity) shooting L10. If I had, I would probably agree with you. The folks I see shooting L10 are using 1911's with 10-round mags, or using duty/carry-type 40-45 pistols (glock, m&p, cz75) and just want to shoot major without getting finicky mag extensions and other competition-only stuff.

[Bill H]

When my sons started shooting with me I went from open to L-10. My oldest son shot production because a Glock fit his hand. My other son shoots a 9mm 1911 in L-10 minor because the 1911 fit his hands and he weighs 100lbs. No way would single stack mag positioning work for him. The last mag pouch would be behind his hoster. I shoot L-10 so that we could all get a good stage strategy together. That is how they learn.

To tell you the truth after shooting L-10 I prefer it to open and Limited. I have to think more about stategy and where to reload. I got tired of hearing people bich about how they would have to reoad because the stage round count was one more than their big stick held.I feel I am a better shooter for shooting L-10 and have more fun. I am at a point in life that I would rather teach my kids and see them have fun than worry about a prize. Our local matches show combined score for all divisions and there are usually quite a few open and limited shooters below me. No I am not hiding out.

[Flexmoney]

I don't even know where my mag extensions are. I suppose they are buried in some parts box. With L-10, I don't have to find them and get new springs in them. I can just go shoot. It is less gear intensive.

Along that same line, and as mentioned, I don't have to play the capacity game to keep up. At 10 rounds, it is an even playing field. (Any video gamers here? Kinda like console vs. PC)

[frag316]

(Any video gamers here? Kinda like console vs. PC)

Hey, man, now you've gone too far! Everyone who's anyone knows only hiders play console games!

(NOTE: I'm horrible at console shooter games--mouse and keyboard are easier for me to figure out than the two joystick thing.)

[Torogi]

L10. HI and CA. And some other states too.

In CA, any new firearm purchase since 2000 came with a 10rd mag. Cant imagine that is going for 13yrs now=(

That being said, i shoot production=) cheaper and more fun shooting minor.

[sfinney]

After I made M in Limited I shot L10 for a few months to get my L10 classification up from A to M as well.

During that season I selfishly shot a major match in L10 knowing they were giving away frames and slides for each Division, and I was more likely to finish top 2 or 3 in L10 (I was already in practice) than Limited.

Came in 2nd L10 behind a GM, and beat another GM known for L10, and a few other strong M or A shooters,

"Hiding out" or not, simple economics influenced that choice. Plus I got a cool crystal trophy.

I have not shot L10 since then.

Edited August 13, 2013 by sfinney

[motosapiens]

After I made M in Limited I shot L10 for a few months to get my L10 classification up from A to M as well.

During that season I selfishly shot a major match in L10 knowing they were giving away frames and slides for each Division, and I was more likely to finish top 2 or 3 in L10 (I was already in practice) than Limited.

Came in 2nd L10 behind a GM, and beat another GM known for L10, and a few other strong M or A shooters,

"Hiding out" or not, simple economics influenced that choice. Plus I got a cool crystal trophy.

I have not shot L10 since then.

That just goes to show why giving valuable prizes based on division finish is bad and encourages sandbagging. Random draw is mo bettah for a variety of reasons.

[Flexmoney]

(Any video gamers here? Kinda like console vs. PC)

Hey, man, now you've gone too far! Everyone who's anyone knows only hiders play console games!

(NOTE: I'm horrible at console shooter games--mouse and keyboard are easier for me to figure out than the two joystick thing.)

Yeah...I jones for mouse and keyboard control...often.

The

is good... (even funnier when you substitute this conversation in there...and change the ending line a bit )

[frag316]

To avoid hijacking the thread too much more, I'll just say the only thing I play on a console is NCAA Football.

My kids are all about the shooters, tho.

[Flexmoney]

To avoid hijacking the thread too much more, I'll just say the only thing I play on a console is NCAA Football.

My kids are all about the shooters, tho.

Don't worry about hijacking this thread much. We are already seeing a prize table drift added (side troll?)

Hitler sucks.

[sperman]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only guy who can't aim with a joystick. I finally broke down and bought a PS3 when GTA4 came out. I didn't want to wait for the PC version, plus the ported GTA games always had little glitches that the console version didn't.

[shtr3]

I just bought a .45 auto limited STI Edge just to shoot limited 10 at some point later in the year, after the sectional championship that I will be shooting limited in. I like limited so much, but want to shoot different disciplines, so I choose the buy the soft shooting 45 limitied gun, and plan on shooting Limited 10. I wouldn't mind shooting production, but like my 2011 feel, so this is why i am choosing it. In the end of the match, arent you competing against all divisions anyway, in the big picture.

[sfinney]

After I made M in Limited I shot L10 for a few months to get my L10 classification up from A to M as well.

During that season I selfishly shot a major match in L10 knowing they were giving away frames and slides for each Division, and I was more likely to finish top 2 or 3 in L10 (I was already in practice) than Limited.

Came in 2nd L10 behind a GM, and beat another GM known for L10, and a few other strong M or A shooters,

"Hiding out" or not, simple economics influenced that choice. Plus I got a cool crystal trophy.

I have not shot L10 since then.

.

That just goes to show why giving valuable prizes based on division finish is bad and encourages sandbagging. Random draw is mo bettah for a variety of reasons.

I actually prefer ribbons or plaques for division and class winners, and prize table by order of overall finish. But that's pretty old school.

I'm shooting for hgh overall anyway

[Dirtychemist]

So I've never understood why shoot L10. I mean if you have a good limited gun (2011 or even good plastic gun) you'll shoot limited. On the other hand, if you're the 1911 kind of guys, there is single stack there for you. So why do some people shoot L10? Which gear do they use and what is the advantage of doing so? Anyone?

You haven't ever shot stages with 8 round magazines. Ask me how I know.

Limited 10 removes the holster and magazine requirements at the hip bone.

If you shoot Major in Single Stack you now buy new mags and you get 2 extra bullets. I can't tell you how many stages I wish I could have 2 extra bullets for magazine changes.

Those are the two biggest reasons I've considered the change but I'm aiming for A shooter in Single Stack to show the production guys you don't need that many bullets.

[kneelingatlas]

I don't get all the negativity towards L10? USPSA made it a division, if no one where shooting it they would kill it, but there are people who prefer it so they shoot it; if you don't, don't.

[frag316]

(Any video gamers here? Kinda like console vs. PC)

Hey, man, now you've gone too far! Everyone who's anyone knows only hiders play console games!

(NOTE: I'm horrible at console shooter games--mouse and keyboard are easier for me to figure out than the two joystick thing.)

Yeah...I jones for mouse and keyboard control...often.

The

is good... (even funnier when you substitute this conversation in there...and change the ending line a bit )

We only have Halo for the shooter games. I won't buy the more "realistic" one until my kids get older--too much cussing and human-on-human violence.

[frag316]

I don't get all the negativity towards L10? USPSA made it a division, if no one where shooting it they would kill it, but there are people who prefer it so they shoot it; if you don't, don't.

Like I said earlier--there was a proposal before the BoD a few years ago to kill it, since Single Stack became official. It didn't go anywhere. I personally think killing it is a bad idea , because you get shooters from all over the place who are magazine restricted.

[kneelingatlas]

I personally think killing it is a bad idea , because you get shooters from all over the place who are magazine restricted.

That makes two of us, so I guess my comment wasn't aimed toward you...

[kamikaze1a]

What a revelation. We shoot L10 because our laws prevent us from possessing hi-cap mags. I never realized some do by choice...

[Rob01]

While I have hi caps for my Glocks and can run Limited with my 35, I only have a few hi caps I got prior to the ban in my state as I knew I would get an STI .40 eventually due to the constant rants by my team mate about how great they are LOL But I don't think enough to run limited. If one got damaged at a match I wouldn't be able to finish so I just plan on running limited 10 with the STI and the few hi caps downloaded and the few other 10 rounders that I can purchase now. Limited 10 works out well that I can still atleast get the 10 rounders and shoot my new to me STI in comps.