STI Texas Multigun Championship April 11-13, 2014

[moto727]

Sheldon,

Will you post the results of the team portion? Kinda like to know how we stacked up.

thanks

[Chuck Anderson]

Didn't make the match this year because of the 3GN match the same date. I did have some issues last year with one of the staff in particular. I spoke with Sheldon about it at the time. He was receptive and as far as I know dealt with it at the time. General rule is if something is wrong, deal with it at the match, not on the internet after the match. Vince Pinto over at IPSC really harps on this whenever anyone complains after a match. If you didn't address it at the time, and were aware of it, you really lose a lot of credibility when complaining later. If you think bringing something wrong to the attention of the match staff will result in you being undeservedly DQ'd, avoid that match. I would never go to a match where I thought the MD would DQ for bitching. Not to say that we shouldn't call attention on issues after the match, just do it during the match as well.

I will say one thing about RO's/CRO's/MD's etc. Three gun shooters are a bunch of A-type dudes for the most part and we're all pretty independent. For the most part we make decisions all the time. A lot of MD's really like RO's that can think for themselves. This can be a really bad quality in an RO at a major match. Most of the bad decisions, hard feelings, thrown out stages and just flat out stupid calls at matches I've seen have been made at the RO level. An RO took it upon themselves to decide how Stage A should be run. Then that information isn't communicated to the RM...or anyone else. With a gap between the staff and main match like they had at the TXMG this can really have an effect. Decisions made two weeks before aren't documented and change by the time the main match comes around. The RO should be making safety calls and all, but if there is a question about how this stage should be shot, a penalty applied, or something else like that, the RM should be consulted. Both to make sure it doesn't conflict with the rules, but also so he can make sure that change is documented for all future competitors, and to make sure no one else shot it without that advantage or disadvantage.

[RJH]

I was scheduled to shoot stage 10 at 9:00 on Friday. The squad that shot at 8:00 advanced about halfway between the shotgun dump barrel and the end of the bay. Since there was no forward charge line stated in the WSB, the RO said it would be okay. I actually asked the RO if he could talk to a MD and make sure the stage was to be run that way. He said that was how everyone would run it. After the first squad left, the forward charge line was placed just past the dump barrel. The entire first squad gained a significant advantage on stage 10.

[Jeff F]

Sounds like I didn't miss much by not making this match

[myankuskie]

I'm in agreement that if there's a problem/issue at a match, then address it there. When I tried to do that with Sheldon on Sunday concerning some issues that I had with the prize table not being fair to the WWII shooters, I was told by him, "Just go get something off of the table and please leave". Needless to say, I will not return.

[kurtm]

Be nice Deathtrap....I've got your signature and know how to use it. besides we haven't practiced trigger in quite a while, I now have a full series of 3-gun teaching videos on YouTube, with a break every 1-2 minutes to tell you how great I am. Look them up you'll like them

[GM2B]

The winner of the shoot house stage was Doug Johnson as I remember, also one of the ROs on that stage, so I'm guessing that his run didn't have any shenanigans going on.

I think a 16 second time with both ports is doable if you can hose with a rifle on the move. One of the other ROs said several people had the time, but not so many all the hits..

STi stepped up big time as well; the table went deep in Tac and they also gave all the ROs a frame and AR lower. It was cool watching the WW2 guys rocking the Garands.

I shot the house stage in 21 and shot it all wrong flat footed all the rifle and went to the right window with rifle then back tracked to dump bucket and drew pistol to engage 1 target. I zig zagged because my pistol ammo was crap and shot near to far flat footed rifle because I was shooting thru and not thinking straight. 15 is doable all day if shot correctly. I have only shot with Doug once and he sure seems like a stand up guy and he CAN shoot fast....!

I plan on going back to this match to see if there are any new holes in the plane and see if I can avoid adding any new ones next year! Sure sad I missed out on one of those nice new 2011's.

[doubleaay78]

I was scheduled to shoot stage 10 at 9:00 on Friday. The squad that shot at 8:00 advanced about halfway between the shotgun dump barrel and the end of the bay. Since there was no forward charge line stated in the WSB, the RO said it would be okay. I actually asked the RO if he could talk to a MD and make sure the stage was to be run that way. He said that was how everyone would run it. After the first squad left, the forward charge line was placed just past the dump barrel. The entire first squad gained a significant advantage on stage 10.

To call that a 'significant advantage' is the understatement of the year. There was a forward charge line just a few feet downrange of the dump barrel when we shot stage 10.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Friends,

There's obviously concern about the way this match was conducted and it really sucks that some shooters feel they were disadvantaged. My name has been mentioned several times in this thread and I'm happy to see the comments have been generally supportive, both as a man of integrity and as a fairly decent shooter. I shot with an RO squad on both 29 MAR and again on 09 APR. On both days, the guys I shot with sincerely tried to shoot the stages fairly and as intended; we routinely asked Sheldon for clarification prior to most of the stages because the WSBs were broadly written and subject to interpretation. At least for the RO squads I shot with, if we gained any advantage was purely unintentional.

I was one of the ROs on Stage 10 and it's true that the first squad on Friday morning was allowed to advance down-range past the barricade due to a misunderstanding regarding whether there was a charge-line in play. A charge line was emplaced after the first squad shot and the rest of the shooters were limited by that. I can also verify that when my RO squad shot Stage 10, we DID NOT advance past the dump bucket since we'd asked Sheldon and we understood his intent. My partner ROs with me on Stage 10 told me that at least one RO squad had advanced downrange past the dump bucket and that's why the first squad was allowed to do the same on Friday morning before we got clarification.

There's been several questions about how I shot stage 9 so quickly and I'll do my best to answer. From the start position, I shot the two targets on the right one round each (A zone hits) and then transitioned to the line of targets on the left of the house, hosing them near to far while advancing. I shot the single target next to the house as I started up the ramp. Once inside the house, I stopped behind and to the left of the dump bucket and shot three paper targets through the left port - near target first, then left to right on the two far targets. Then I leaned to the right and shot two additional paper targets through the shot out hole in the wall, working right to left (these targets were in my natural line of view through the shot-out hole, perhaps because I'm fairly tall). I dumped my rifle, drew my pistol, and took a step and a half to the right where I shot the far right target (including a make up shot because I called my second shot high right). The RO was astonished at my time and even reviewed the timer to check the number of rounds fired. I had a couple targets with only one round in them, but lucky for me they were A zone hits. Looking at the results, several other shooters made runs within two seconds of my time so I'm not sure this qualifies as a "super-human time", but I'll take it as a compliment. This was probably one of the best five runs I've ever laid down and the stage played to my greatest strength - hosing close paper with a rifle.

Without a doubt, this was my best performance at any major match I've ever shot; I was extremely happy with my runs on 10 of 12 stages. It breaks my heart to know others feel they weren't given a fair shake or that the ROs had an unfair advantage. I will offer this up to any competitor who feels they were disadvantaged by my actions in any way, just let me know and I'll DQ myself from the match and return the STI pistol I got off the prize table to Sheldon. My integrity and reputation are worth far more than anything I'll ever take off a prize table.

ETA: I sincerely believe that any discrepancies that may have taken place were purely unintentional and without malice. I consider Sheldon to be a friend and the RO staff was among the best I've ever worked with.

Look forward to shooting with everyone again!

Edited April 15, 2014 by Fullauto_Shooter

[Flatland Shooter]

This was my first major 3 gun match and it was a blast.

All of my prior competition has been USPSA matches so my experience with the written stage briefings were governed by the USPSA rules and requirements.

At no point do I feel that anyone "cheated" or intentionally shot a stage contrary to what they believed was the others would be shooting it.

Much of the problems folks have complained about could in the future be avoided by reasonably detailed WSBs. On two stages when I questioned why I was not allowed to shoot the stage the way I saw shooters do it on Thursday I was told "that is not how the Match Director intended it".

On Friday morning at Stage 9 I was advised that all shots from inside the house must go through the ports so the "hole in the wall" was no longer an option.

On Stage 1 we were advised that we would not be allowed to shoot anything other than the fast targets with the prop gun. Initially I was told that since STI was furnishing the ammo for the prop gun, it would not be fair to STI to use up so much ammo. I did ask the RO if the earlier shooters would be required to reshoot and did not really get an answer but they did offer to call for the MD.

I'm from the camp where if its not on the WSB, its allowed. That said, all of the ROs did an outstanding job and I would be proud to shoot a match with any of them.

With the minimal information given, its understandable that some shooters could have some advantage. Usually that is resolved by requiring the shooters that were deemed to have had an unfair advantage reshoot for an accurate score. I assume they were unable to do this which resulted in Stage 1 getting thrown out.

Me and my friends enjoyed the match and hope to attend again next year.

If asked, I would recommend that in the future the following three changes be implemented.

First, online squadding would speed up registration and make more than a few shooters happy.

Second, post the stages several weeks in advance. It seems to be the norm for most other matches and it will allow shooters, especially those travelling long distances, to better gauge how much ammo to bring.

Third, develop detailed stage briefings For a level 2 or higher USPSA match, the stages must be reviewed and approved by the NROI. To some that write the stages, the detail required may seem like overkill But the end result, as long as the setup crew follows the WSB and attachments, we will have stages that will be consistently run and fair to everyone.

Hope to see everyone next year. Oh, and Squad 17 was the best.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Flatland Shooter

[Spartan-6]

First, a BIG THANK YOU to Mr. Paul Payne and STI for the match.

Also Thanks to C-T-D, Sierra Bullets and ErgoGrip for the generous prizes.

Thanks to the RO's that I met. Fun, helpful and polite... To those I spoke with, I hope to work with you at the Fallen Brethren Challenge in October.

Thanks to JP for your support and ever-approachable persona. I appreciate you, Sir.

A huge thanks to the fellow members of SQ-18 for the support and lessons. Y'all really made this a fun little match and I learned a lot. Hope we'll get to shoot together again at another match.

-six-

[LChico]

Without a doubt, this was my best performance at any major match I've ever shot; I was extremely happy with my runs on 10 of 12 stages. It breaks my heart to know others feel they weren't given a fair shake or that the ROs had an unfair advantage. I will offer this up to any competitor who feels they were disadvantaged by my actions in any way, just let me know and I'll DQ myself from the match and return the STI pistol I got off the prize table to Sheldon. My integrity and reputation are worth far more than anything I'll ever take off a prize table.

ETA: I sincerely believe that any discrepancies that may have taken place were purely unintentional and without malice. I consider Sheldon to be a friend and the RO staff was among the best I've ever worked with.

Look forward to shooting with everyone again!

Another reason I am proud to call Doug Johnson my friend.

Linda Chico

[jrmock]

Fun match. Lots of good people. Ty Gentry is kind of a butthead (or as he refers to himself 'Mr Douchebag' ) but he is fast.

Did I miss where we were supposed to shoot buck shot? I thought the round count said 15 for buck shot but I never saw anywhere that we were to use it.

[shred]

Stage 1 was thrown out due to inconsistencies with the prop gun and the shotgun targets. Presumably because that was brought up at the match.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

There's been several questions about how I shot stage 9 so quickly and I'll do my best to answer. From the start position, I shot the two targets on the right one round each (A zone hits) and then transitioned to the line of targets on the left of the house, hosing them near to far while advancing. I shot the single target next to the house as I started up the ramp. Once inside the house, I stopped behind and to the left of the dump bucket and shot three paper targets through the left port - near target first, then left to right on the two far targets. Then I leaned to the right and shot two additional paper targets through the shot out hole in the wall, working right to left (these targets were in my natural line of view through the shot-out hole, perhaps because I'm fairly tall). I dumped my rifle, drew my pistol, and took a step and a half to the right where I shot the far right target (including a make up shot because I called my second shot high right). The RO was astonished at my time and even reviewed the timer to check the number of rounds fired. I had a couple targets with only one round in them, but lucky for me they were A zone hits. Looking at the results, several other shooters made runs within two seconds of my time so I'm not sure this qualifies as a "super-human time", but I'll take it as a compliment. This was probably one of the best five runs I've ever laid down and the stage played to my greatest strength - hosing close paper with a rifle.

I appreciate you responding on here and being honest about how you shot the stage so fast. Most of us looked at who had the scores and they were either people we knew/trusted or looked up to, so none of us want to believe anything you may have done to be intentional.

Here is the problem:

When I got to that stage, I saw the shot out holes with the targets visible in them and knew I could shoot heavy and burn that stage down with one hit on paper. I shot the stage in 21 seconds, matching BJ as a nobody since it was probably my best stage at the match. The only way you could shave 1/3 of my time off is to be superhuman .....or get to shoot the stage differently. I won the stage in heavy, and I can tell you that I could shoot that stage in 19 if things went right with how I had to shoot it. I asked about shooting thru the holes in the wall and was told I had to shoot thru the ports only. I can see how you could shoot it that fast thru those holes.

That stage needed to be thrown out, along with any other stage that was shot differently by any group of shooters! Shooters shot it differently, therefore gaining a sizeable advantage. Our scoring is based on match points, the difference between the stage winner shooting it in 18-19 seconds when someone shot it in 21 means you will have more points compared to the fastest time being 1/3 faster meaning a 21 second time would get 66 points instead of 80-90. Look at how many points separate each finisher in any division, and you can see that several people were screwed based on the example you gave.

I still believe that the issue is less with the collective group of ROs doing any cheating, and more with the MD/RM not maintaining the integrity of the match by making every person who got that advantage, reshoot those stages...including ROs.

[Rigs]

"Then I leaned to the right and shot two additional paper targets through the shot out hole in the wall, working right to left (these targets were in my natural line of view through the shot-out hole, perhaps because I'm fairly tall)."

When squad 13 got to this stage, we were told that the "shot out hole" was not intended to be used as a shooting port. We had to move to the second position to be able to engage all targets.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Rigs

[JPeel]

Was stage 7 supposed to start "seated in the car seat, hands on the wheel"?

[AustinWolv]

Was stage 7 supposed to start "seated in the car seat, hands on the wheel"?

We were told that we could position body however we wanted, as long as both hands were on the wheel and the full body was inside the car, i.e. even toes were not allowed to hang outside the door/off the seat.

[M ammo]

Was stage 7 supposed to start "seated in the car seat, hands on the wheel"?

We were told that we could position body however we wanted, as long as both hands were on the wheel and the full body was inside the car, i.e. even toes were not allowed to hang outside the door/off the seat.

That is how I did it,,,,,,,,,,, feet in hands on the wheel,

[kurtm]

"Feet in hands on the wheel"........feet in...comma....hands on wheel...

Punctuation save on ciropractor bills.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

"Feet in hands on the wheel"........feet in...comma....hands on wheel...

Punctuation save on ciropractor bills.

stop messing with my livelyhood! A chiro's gotta eat man.

[JPeel]

"Feet in hands on the wheel"........feet in...comma....hands on wheel...

Punctuation save on ciropractor bills.

Now that's funny

[AustinT]

Here's what it looked like when I shot it:

[M ammo]

"Feet in hands on the wheel"........feet in...comma....hands on wheel...

Punctuation save on ciropractor bills.

stop messing with my livelyhood! A chiro's gotta eat man.

OK I know I have a comma Problem,,,, if I watch late night TV,,, I'm sure they make a Pill for that. they seems to make a pill for eveything else!

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Austin,

Stage 1, we had to dump in the barrel and could not leave the rifle on the top of the ports.

Stage 2, shot the same as I did, but I had to squat to shoot thru that port.

Stage 7, thats how I started in the car. BUT, a shooter in my squad received procedurals for shooting in about the same spot on the right side of the fencing, even though he was uprange of the stop lines and further away from the steel. Did you get procedurals for shooting outside of the left border of that fence for the steel?

Austin was high junior right? It's good to see kids in the sport.