STI Texas Multigun Championship April 11-13, 2014

[prreed10]

Austin,

Stage 1, we had to dump in the barrel and could not leave the rifle on the top of the ports.

Austin was high junior right? It's good to see kids in the sport.

He was the first shooter and we were the very 1st squad on Stage 1 Thursday AM and they immediately disallowed using the box for grounding rifle after he shot.

He even got a JR discount to shoot the Thompson!

[prreed10]

Here are my stages:

[JPeel]

I would post my video as a warning to others but it's pretty much "beep....STOP!"

[ClutchUSMC]

Austin,

Stage 1, we had to dump in the barrel and could not leave the rifle on the top of the ports.

Austin was high junior right? It's good to see kids in the sport.

He was the first shooter and we were the very 1st squad on Stage 1 Thursday AM and they immediately disallowed using the box for grounding rifle after he shot.

He even got a JR discount to shoot the Thompson!

Did he reshoot it?

[AustinT]

Austin,

Stage 1, we had to dump in the barrel and could not leave the rifle on the top of the ports.

Austin was high junior right? It's good to see kids in the sport.

He was the first shooter and we were the very 1st squad on Stage 1 Thursday AM and they immediately disallowed using the box for grounding rifle after he shot.

He even got a JR discount to shoot the Thompson!

Did he reshoot it?

I did not, nor was I given the option to.

[Akkid17]

Well, with all this poo swirlining around I can't believe I had such a good time and I finished much higher that I expected to. All of the guys and lady (and the designated squad goddess) on my squad were amazing. The RO's were fun and great to deal with. The stages were pretty fun, aside from that MF'ing long range stage, there was a little repetition from last years match but not to the point of carbon copying. Even with bombing stage 8 I wound up taking 5th in open and I won a stage for open which was awesome for me. Would have had another stage win in open if I hadn't thrown a shot and gotten a one hit paper penalty.

It is a bummer that stage one had to be thrown out, but I'm glad that since it was plagued with so many issues in how it was able to be shot that it was taken out of the rankings to even out the playing field. Other stages seemed to have the usual gaming skirting the stage description stuff, which is usual for 3-gun or even uspsa people always want to gain whatever advantage they can over the competition which I don't fault them for. Part of the reason why I don't shoot IDPA is the ability to have my own way to shoot and some times I works others it doesn't. I will say that some of the stage briefs were a little light but not to the point where I felt that someone could gain a monstrous advantage through them.

Otherwise, again I had a great time this last weekend and had a great group of people to shoot with in squad 10. The guys from the Nordic shooting team were awesome, Patrick Kelley and his wife were a blast to shoot with, the Brown family were a great group of people and excellent shooters and great to shoot with and Bobby from Lindberg guns and guitars is a great guy and was great to shoot with as well and even showed us Alaskan Yankees where to get some good BBQ. Also, a huge thanks to Frank Leslie for lending us a cart and for ROing it was a big help and made getting around the match much nicer. All in all, everyone in Texas was extremely friendly and awesome to deal with and shoot with. If every match I went to had people like that I would never have a bad match. Maybe it's just me, but even with all the Monday morning quarterbacking I had a great vacation and I wouldn't take it back (aside from that bastard of a long range stage!)

Thanks again,

Ben

Edited April 15, 2014 by Akkid17

[3gunshooter123]

Austin,

Stage 1, we had to dump in the barrel and could not leave the rifle on the top of the ports.

Austin was high junior right? It's good to see kids in the sport.

He was the first shooter and we were the very 1st squad on Stage 1 Thursday AM and they immediately disallowed using the box for grounding rifle after he shot.

He even got a JR discount to shoot the Thompson!

Did he reshoot it?

I did not, nor was I given the option to.

Well that surprising because every time I turned around someone was reshooting a stage... Except the one guy on our squad that was told by the RM the only way he could reshoot a stage after his gun went down was if it "required tools to fix the jammed gun." He took it down found a big piece of brass stuck under the extractor and then was told "that was a ammo issue." 2 stages later on another squad member splits a case in his rifle and is stopped by the RO (for some reason I don't know) and then given a reshoot for ammo. When the other shooter seen this, he ask the RM what about him was told "it was they're bad and they shouldn't of stopped him" and he was still not given a reshoot but the other shooter was.

Bottom line is inconsistencies like this were all over the place from WSB, to early shooters, to reshoots which in return effected the scores drastically.

I'm starting to think there has been a reason this match has had 3 different title sponsors in 3 different years

Edited April 15, 2014 by 3gunshooter123

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Up until this morning when I decided to check in on this thread I hadn't questioned the integrity of any of the shooters. I figured gamers will game and with the broad latitudes of the WSB's and a hundred different opinions it was all one big Cluster F$ck. I hate that I wasted my time and money to shoot a match that has been plagued with similar issues for years with no regard for equity of play, I can say this because I've seen it for 3 years now. What really pisses me off and disturbs me is that today I learned about the character of a friend and fellow shooter who I thought was above reproach. I realized that he had lied to me and my wife both about the way he burned down a stage. I had enough faith in this man because I knew how he could shoot that I never questioned his "Superhuman" run but what we were told Friday afternoon isn't what was posted here.

Keep the STI, you've lost all credibility with me and my family Lt. Colonel.

Blaise,

I saw your post and am confused about what's different between what I posted and what I told you on Friday? I shot the stage exactly like I posted it, so perhaps I didn't explain very well when we spoke face to face - please tell me what the disconnect is so I can address it. I'd love to discuss this with you on the phone (254) 449-6328. After we speak, if you still believe that I did anything dishonest, then I will honor my pledge to return the pistol to Sheldon Carruth.

Doug Johnson

[Jadeslade]

Here's what it looked like when I shot it:

Nice complete video. Nice shooting!

[topgunpilot20]

. . . this really isn't a bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacks, these are competitors demanding answers during an After Action Report.

Is that what your rant is? Because it sounds a lot more like someone accusing a well respected member of being a liar and 60 ROs plus a match director of conspiracy and fraud based on rumors and ignorance all while being too cowardly to bring it up in person.

I was involved with setup for the match and was an RO on stage 11. I would be happy to answer any questions as best as I can. Please repost them for me so i don't have to search through 16 pages.

Off the top of my head, setup for this match normally begins two weeks before the match with the RO shoot the weekend before the main match. The week leading up to the match is normally spent decorating and setting up non-stage related equipment. The stages are not changed in any way between the RO and main match. However, do to range restrictions this year, that was not possible. Half the stages had to be setup weeks before for ROs then torn back down. The target places were marked on the ground with spray paint and pictures were taken to ensure they would be correctly re-setup. This was certainly not ideal, but unavoidable due to range restrictions that were beyond the control of Texas Multi-Gun.

Stage 1 was thrown out when it was brought up to the match director that some shooters had used the prop pistol for unintended targets and others were not allowed to do so. This was not properly described in the stage description which was the miscommunication.

The rifle port on Stage 2 was never intended for using to shoot the falling steel, and no one should have been allowed to do it.

There were always 10 headshot targets on Stage 6.

No extra steel was added to Stage 8 (or any other stage).

The hole in the wall of the shoot house on Stage 9 was never intended to be a port and should never have been used as one.

I don't know anything about the charge line moving for Stage 10. I do know at least one person was DQ'ed for turning up range with their shotgun to dump it in the barrel, so it may have been a safety issue.

The "minimal movement" on the barricade for Stage 12 as described (moving from the top of one position to the side of the next position) sounds within the stage rules. I wish I had thought of that.

There were seven times the number of Tac Ops shooters as in each of the other division (combining the three in WWII with the 21 in Heavy). That's why there were seven times the number of STI pistols on the Tac Ops table than the other tables.

The only problem brought up to the match staff was Stage 1, and that was dealt with properly. Maybe if shooters would voice their concerns to the staff and give them a chance to fix it instead of waiting to complain on the internet afterward then these situations could be averted.

Jonathan Slayton

Edited April 15, 2014 by topgunpilot20

[doubleaay78]

. . . this really isn't a bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacks, these are competitors demanding answers during an After Action Report.

Is that what your rant is? Because it sounds a lot more like someone accusing a well respected member of being a liar and 60 ROs plus a match director of conspiracy and fraud based on rumors and ignorance all while being too cowardly to bring it up in person.

I was involved with setup for the match and was an RO on stage 11. I would be happy to answer any questions as best as I can. Please repost them for me so i don't have to search through 16 pages.

Off the top of my head, setup for this match normally begins two weeks before the match with the RO shoot the weekend before the main match. The week leading up to the match is normally spent decorating and setting up non-stage related equipment. The stages are not changed in any way between the RO and main match. However, do to range restrictions this year, that was not possible. Half the stages had to be setup weeks before for ROs then torn back down. The target places were marked on the ground with spray paint and pictures were taken to ensure they would be correctly re-setup. This was certainly not ideal, but unavoidable due to range restrictions that were beyond the control of Texas Multi-Gun.

Stage 1 was thrown out when it was brought up to the match director that some shooters had used the prop pistol for unintended targets and others were not allowed to do so. This was not properly described in the stage description which was the miscommunication.

The rifle port on Stage 2 was never intended for using to shoot the falling steel, and no one should have been allowed to do it.

There were always 10 headshot targets on Stage 6.

No extra steel was added to Stage 8 (or any other stage).

The hole in the wall of the shoot house on Stage 9 was never intended to be a port and should never have been used as one.

I don't know anything about the charge line moving for Stage 10. I do know at least one person was DQ'ed for turning up range with their shotgun to dump it in the barrel, so it may have been a safety issue.

The "minimal movement" on the barricade for Stage 12 as described (moving from the top of one position to the side of the next position) sounds within the stage rules. I wish I had thought of that.

There were seven times the number of Tac Ops shooters as in each of the other division (combining the three in WWII with the 21 in Heavy). That's why there were seven times the number of STI pistols on the Tac Ops table than the other tables.

The only problem brought up to the match staff was Stage 1, and that was dealt with properly. Maybe if shooters would voice their concerns to the staff and give them a chance to fix it instead of waiting to complain on the internet afterward then these situations could be averted.

Jonathan Slayton

Let's start with the team event. Was a team member added to the winning team at the last minute to replace another team member who DQ'd? This question is not based on rumor or ignorance I assure you.

How is it possible for the RO's to shoot the match themselves, and then completely forget certain stages? Why was my squad, on Sunday morning, the first to notice that something was different on stage 1? Did the RO's on stage 1 not remember how they shot that stage?

My squad was specifically told not to shoot through the shot out hole in the wall on 9. We were specifically told not to go past the forward fault line near the barrel on 10. We were specifically told not to shoot the small plates with a rifle on 11. We were specifically told we had to change steps on the barricade on 12. How did numerous RO's forget how differently they shot some/all of those stages? The people telling us these specific restrictions shot the match themselves, how did they not notice the numerous differences, especially since nearly all of the changes put main match shooters at a disadvantage?

Edited April 15, 2014 by doubleaay78

[topgunpilot20]

I have never been to best of the west when the wind wasn't blowing 5 to 20 mph so your telling us that y'all painted the dirt in those bays with spray paint where the targets sets during TXMG 1.0. Then open botw up to the general public to shoot and not one mark was blown away or removed.... You guys must be gods with spray paint to get that right!

I setup stages 2 and 3, and the spray paint for the target stands was still there. I don't know about the other stages. However, it is very likely some targets were a few inches off.

[3GunVinci]

The "circumstances out of the control of txmg" is a blatant lie. The the stages being set up and tore down and reset up was done to save a couple thousand dollars the range charges to leave he stages set up during the week. This was said directly by the MD. This was said by the MD in 2013 well in advance of any "circumstances".

There are many honest and ethical men who worked as RO's for this match. As with anything else these men group together, and tend to squad together. I guarantee you there were squads who played everything by the books. Some of the stages were shot by RO's weeks in advance, some shot-through the weekend of, and SOME shot the whole match Thursday along with a group of non-RO's. Obviously all 50 or so RO's and the non RO early shooters did not all shoot the same day in the same squad. So NO ONE is saying ALL the RO's are questionable.

Whoever said it is right there IS a reason there has been a new title sponsor each year and there IS a reason that a large number of the upper level match staff has changed year to year... so if you want the truth find one of men who used to be a closer part of that and ask him.

[topgunpilot20]

Let's start with the team event. Was a team member added to the winning team at the last minute to replace another team member who DQ'd? This question is not based on rumor or ignorance I assure you.

How is it possible for the RO's to shoot the match themselves, and then completely forget certain stages? Why was my squad, on Sunday morning, the first to notice that something was different on stage 1? Did the RO's on stage 1 not remember how they shot that stage?

My squad was specifically told not to shoot through the shot out hole in the wall on 9. We were specifically told not to go past the forward fault line near the barrel on 10. We were specifically told not to shoot the small plates with a rifle on 11. We were specifically told we had to change steps on the barricade on 12. How did numerous RO's forget how differently they shot some/all of those stages? The people telling us these specific restrictions shot the match themselves, how did they not notice the numerous differences, especially since nearly all of the changes put main match shooters at a disadvantage?

I am not aware of any team member being added to the winning team.

Stage 1 was not one of the stages shot during the earlier RO match. Some of the ROs may have unknowingly shot it incorrectly the day before the main match, and that carried over.

No ROs were supposed to through the wall on stage 9, nor were they supposed to shoot the rifle on the plate on 11 (as the RO on 11, I am not aware of anyone using the rifle on those targets). Using the top of one step and the side of another on the stage 12 barricade is within the rules for that stage and a damn good idea.

[doubleaay78]

Let's start with the team event. Was a team member added to the winning team at the last minute to replace another team member who DQ'd? This question is not based on rumor or ignorance I assure you.

How is it possible for the RO's to shoot the match themselves, and then completely forget certain stages? Why was my squad, on Sunday morning, the first to notice that something was different on stage 1? Did the RO's on stage 1 not remember how they shot that stage?

My squad was specifically told not to shoot through the shot out hole in the wall on 9. We were specifically told not to go past the forward fault line near the barrel on 10. We were specifically told not to shoot the small plates with a rifle on 11. We were specifically told we had to change steps on the barricade on 12. How did numerous RO's forget how differently they shot some/all of those stages? The people telling us these specific restrictions shot the match themselves, how did they not notice the numerous differences, especially since nearly all of the changes put main match shooters at a disadvantage?

I am not aware of any team member being added to the winning team.

Stage 1 was not one of the stages shot during the earlier RO match. Some of the ROs may have unknowingly shot it incorrectly the day before the main match, and that carried over.

No ROs were supposed to through the wall on stage 9, nor were they supposed to shoot the rifle on the plate on 11 (as the RO on 11, I am not aware of anyone using the rifle on those targets). Using the top of one step and the side of another on the stage 12 barricade is within the rules for that stage and a damn good idea.

Go ask the MD if a member was added to the winning team to replace a DQ's shooter. Let us know what he tells you.

[3GunVinci]

Have the original team event team lists been posted? I heard about the "Do you want to be on the winning team" comment made by the MD before the end of Sunday and before it was brought up on here.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Blaise1 - I sent you a PM. Please respond and let me know how you'd like to proceed.

Very Respectfully,

Doug

[latech15]

. . . this really isn't a bunch of Monday Morning Quarterbacks, these are competitors demanding answers during an After Action Report.

Is that what your rant is? Because it sounds a lot more like someone accusing a well respected member of being a liar and 60 ROs plus a match director of conspiracy and fraud based on rumors and ignorance all while being too cowardly to bring it up in person.

I was involved with setup for the match and was an RO on stage 11. I would be happy to answer any questions as best as I can. Please repost them for me so i don't have to search through 16 pages.

Off the top of my head, setup for this match normally begins two weeks before the match with the RO shoot the weekend before the main match. The week leading up to the match is normally spent decorating and setting up non-stage related equipment. The stages are not changed in any way between the RO and main match. However, do to range restrictions this year, that was not possible. Half the stages had to be setup weeks before for ROs then torn back down. The target places were marked on the ground with spray paint and pictures were taken to ensure they would be correctly re-setup. This was certainly not ideal, but unavoidable due to range restrictions that were beyond the control of Texas Multi-Gun.

Stage 1 was thrown out when it was brought up to the match director that some shooters had used the prop pistol for unintended targets and others were not allowed to do so. This was not properly described in the stage description which was the miscommunication.

The rifle port on Stage 2 was never intended for using to shoot the falling steel, and no one should have been allowed to do it.

There were always 10 headshot targets on Stage 6.

No extra steel was added to Stage 8 (or any other stage).

The hole in the wall of the shoot house on Stage 9 was never intended to be a port and should never have been used as one.

I don't know anything about the charge line moving for Stage 10. I do know at least one person was DQ'ed for turning up range with their shotgun to dump it in the barrel, so it may have been a safety issue.

The "minimal movement" on the barricade for Stage 12 as described (moving from the top of one position to the side of the next position) sounds within the stage rules. I wish I had thought of that.

There were seven times the number of Tac Ops shooters as in each of the other division (combining the three in WWII with the 21 in Heavy). That's why there were seven times the number of STI pistols on the Tac Ops table than the other tables.

The only problem brought up to the match staff was Stage 1, and that was dealt with properly. Maybe if shooters would voice their concerns to the staff and give them a chance to fix it instead of waiting to complain on the internet afterward then these situations could be averted.

Jonathan Slayton

As far as stage 1, if the stage gun was "not intended to be used on anything other than the two steel targets" don't you agree that it would have been helpful to put that in the WSB? Also, as you have seen from some of the videos posted, some shooters were allowed to "ground a safe rifle" on top of the barricade right where they had staged it prior to the stage starting. My squad was informed that we could not ground rifles there. Yet again, lets throw out what the WSB says and make up our own rules regardless of the impact that it makes on the overall scores.

Stage 2 - Again, if the steel was not intended to have been shot form there, put it in the WSB. The WSB said that it had to be shot from the ports - not ports B and C. What you DO NOT do is allow the RO's to move steel around after a bunch of shooters had already shot it that way so that you couldn't see the steel from there and add caveats to the WSB after the match was underway.

Stage 9 - The hole in the wall was specifically addressed in our walkthrough as a possible port that was perfectly fine to shoot through. You failed to address the fact that the forward charge line wasn't enforced for some of the shooters and they didn't have to use the hole in the wall because they were elbows deep in the first window shooting all of the paper from one position. Yet again, these things could have been addressed in a WSB.

DQing a shooter from breaking the 180 isn't a safety issue. That is part of every match ever shot. You can't break the 180 period. You can't change the stage after it has been shot without reshooting the shooters who have already shot it.

Stage 12 - If you wanted a minimum amount of movement, the minimum amount of movement should have been prescribed. I moved from a vertical wall to a step. It was a very small movement, but per the WSB, I could have moved less than that and still been within the rules.

Either the RO's took it upon themselves to "fix" the problems on their stages without consulting the MD or RM, or they approved the changes. Neither of which are right, fair, or equitable for all shooters.

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here. There is nothing that can be done at this point. A formal apology won't change anybody's feelings. I spoke to the RM while I was at the match and informed him of all of the items that I pointed out here and he told me that it was the first time that he had heard about most of them. I believed him then and I still believe that nobody had brought it up. My belief is that this was all caused by the mentality that "3 gun doesn't need all of the rules that USPSA has" You/We do. This is a great example of that. Stages get thrown out in USPSA, even at nationals, but not 7-8 out of 12.

[topgunpilot20]

As far as stage 1, if the stage gun was "not intended to be used on anything other than the two steel targets" don't you agree that it would have been helpful to put that in the WSB? Also, as you have seen from some of the videos posted, some shooters were allowed to "ground a safe rifle" on top of the barricade right where they had staged it prior to the stage starting. My squad was informed that we could not ground rifles there. Yet again, lets throw out what the WSB says and make up our own rules regardless of the impact that it makes on the overall scores.

Stage 2 - Again, if the steel was not intended to have been shot form there, put it in the WSB. The WSB said that it had to be shot from the ports - not ports B and C. What you DO NOT do is allow the RO's to move steel around after a bunch of shooters had already shot it that way so that you couldn't see the steel from there and add caveats to the WSB after the match was underway.

Stage 9 - The hole in the wall was specifically addressed in our walkthrough as a possible port that was perfectly fine to shoot through. You failed to address the fact that the forward charge line wasn't enforced for some of the shooters and they didn't have to use the hole in the wall because they were elbows deep in the first window shooting all of the paper from one position. Yet again, these things could have been addressed in a WSB.

DQing a shooter from breaking the 180 isn't a safety issue. That is part of every match ever shot. You can't break the 180 period. You can't change the stage after it has been shot without reshooting the shooters who have already shot it.

Stage 12 - If you wanted a minimum amount of movement, the minimum amount of movement should have been prescribed. I moved from a vertical wall to a step. It was a very small movement, but per the WSB, I could have moved less than that and still been within the rules.

Either the RO's took it upon themselves to "fix" the problems on their stages without consulting the MD or RM, or they approved the changes. Neither of which are right, fair, or equitable for all shooters.

I feel like we are beating a dead horse here. There is nothing that can be done at this point. A formal apology won't change anybody's feelings. I spoke to the RM while I was at the match and informed him of all of the items that I pointed out here and he told me that it was the first time that he had heard about most of them. I believed him then and I still believe that nobody had brought it up. My belief is that this was all caused by the mentality that "3 gun doesn't need all of the rules that USPSA has" You/We do. This is a great example of that. Stages get thrown out in USPSA, even at nationals, but not 7-8 out of 12.

Stage 1 - You are correct. The stage brief should have specified. Also, one shooter grounding a rifle in the wrong spot (an unforeseen event since the barrel was right there) is not a conspiracy.

Stage 2 - You are correct. Using the pistol through that rifle port was unforeseen.

Stage 9 - BJ Norris is the only shooter that I'm aware of that shot past the fault line. He was forced to reshoot instead of given procedurals because he wasn't properly briefed. "Within shooting area" was in the stage brief.

Stage 10 - I absolutely agree if that was the case.

Stage 12 - A different position on the barricade was described in the brief. The side of one step is different than the top of another.

This thread is the first that the staff is hearing of most of these issues.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Friends,

For the first time in my adult life, my integrity has been questioned and it shakes me to my very core. For the record, I shot the match as fairly as I could based on my understanding of the WSBs and MD's intent. I know I'm "clean" and I'll sleep soundly knowing I didn't intentionally cheat or do anything dishonest. This was my best shooting performance at a Major match and it really hurts to know that at least one of my fellow competitors is questioning my ethics.

For the record, I consider Blaise to be a good friend and I have nothing but the utmost respect for him. I honestly think what happened was a simple misunderstanding during our conversation Friday afternoon. I'm certain I never told him and Julie that I shot all the back-row targets with a pistol - I never even considered this as an option since I shoot rifle quicker than pistol. I did say was that some of the ROs shot all the back row targets with a pistol. Regardless of what was actually said, Blaise sincerely believes that what I posted doesn't match what we discussed in person - and that's a problem.

As I've stated earlier, my integrity and reputation are worth far more than anything I'll ever pick up off a prize table. I'm deeply saddened my reputation has been called into question and all I want to do is make things right. For this reason, I have decided to DQ myself from the match and I will "pay-forward" the STI Marauder pistol I picked up off the table to another competitor, whom I will name in this thread once I determine who it should be. I sincerely hope this gesture will reinforce that I'm a man of honor and integrity.

I hope to see you all at the range!

[prreed10]

We were the first squad to shoot on stage one Friday Morning. Sheldon arrived at the stage during our walk through. We were delayed from starting due to a clarificanton on what was to be engaged with the prop gun and the plate rack was moved, to be at less of an angle and more parallel to the start position. We specifically asked if the rifle could be grounded on top of the first bunker on safe and were told yes. Austin was the first shooter. When he abandoned the rifle, it rotated about 140 deg to the left. After USC, it was determined that the rifle must be grounded in the barrel. No one mentioned reshoot and the issue was not pressed as we were 30-40 behind schedule.

Ryan Reed

Edited April 15, 2014 by prreed10

[latech15]

For the record, stage 11 was flawless as far as I'm concerned. All except the part about making the aforementioned gravitationally challenged individual run all the way down that hill!

I've said my peace and I'll join the rubberneckers from here on out.

Jeff Blackmon

Edited April 15, 2014 by latech15

[topgunpilot20]

topgun, first and foremost I paid for the oppurtunity to shoot a FAIR match as did just about everyone there excluding match staff. Sponsors donated prizes and money's for their shooters to shoot a FAIR match. When you take away the FAIRNESS and stack the game in a certain direction then it becomes fraud.

The staff should do everything possible to make the match as fair as possible. However, just because mistakes are made does not mean there is any conspiracy or ill will. There is no evidence of ill will.

[topgunpilot20]

No, Its not a conspiracy, but it is another example of how some shooters were allowed to shoot a stage one way and others were specifically instructed that they were not allowed to do it that way. That is the basis of all of the issues going on here.

Stage 2 - Unforseen, Shmunforseen. I design a lot of stages. Have you any idea how often shooters find a way to game a stage that was "unforeseen" when I was drawing it? That isn't an excuse for redesigning the stage in the middle of a match. Making shooters take up a completely new position 15 or so feet away cost them lots of time. Especially those as heavily influenced by gravity as myself. If an unforeseen option breaks other safety rules, then penalties are assessed per the rule book (ex - shooting steel from too close = stage or match dq)

Stage 9 - I understand if BJ is the only person "that you know of" who was allowed to shoot it that way and had to reshoot it, but he is not the only one who shot it that way and I know specifically that others who shot it that way didn't have to reshoot it and their scores counted. Allowing a shooter to reshoot because he wasn't "properly briefed" is a crock. I guess if you walk up and shoot a virginia count with extra shots you get a reshoot because you weren't "properly briefed"? Nope procedurals. It is your responsibility to read the briefing and observe the fault lines for yourself.

This thread is not the first that "the staff" has heard of the issues. I, myself, brought most of them up to the RM before the match was over. It may be the first that you heard of them, but you obviously can't speak for all of the staff.

Stage 2 - I agree. If the stage description did not prohibit shooting through the rifle port and it was safe to do so then competitors should have been allowed to do so. Bad RO call in my opinion, but I don't think that RO intended to elevate his scores with that call especially when the ROs shot from the further port.

Stage 9 - You have a point. However, that is not evidence of ROs attempting to elevate their own scores by disadvantaging other shooters. BJ was not part of the staff.

[topgunpilot20]

@ topgunpilot20

Call it what you will; Cheated, Deceived, Played. When you leave a Major 3 Gun match knowing you paid for inequity it does resonate & irritate.

I'm still waiting to hear any evidence of either cheating, deception, or playing other competitors. Mistakes have been posted, but none of them were in bad faith.

Edited April 15, 2014 by topgunpilot20