have you ever had the thought of questioning someone ammo?

[OUshooter]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=153291&st=0

I do think some folks would gripe, as if they don't already , but the random lvl 1 chrono might be a good idea. It's boggling for me to believe, but lots of handloaders don't have a chrono.

[Nik Habicht]

The dead giveaway is when the bullet sticks in the cardboard.... :-)

One Master class shooter was known for providing "chrono" loads. At a state championship, one of the RO's picked up his discarded magazine and stripped out 8 rounds. A notice was posted on the weeping wall for the shooter to report back to chrono. When he didn't show up, the MD found him on the range and told him to report to chrono as soon as possible

He didn't go.

They changed him to minor.

Depending on when this was, it may not have been the right call. From Appendix C2:

42. The scores of a competitor who, for any reason, fails to present his firearm for testing at the designated time and location and/or who fails to provide sample rounds for testing whenever requested by a Match Official will be removed from the match results.

[Nik Habicht]

OUShooter - 100% agree with you. I'm just saying I question peoples ammo more from a safety perspective rather than poor sportsmanship. Steel has a way of punishing the sub-minor shooters.

Declaring major and purposely shooting minor is a different story. That's just a dick move.

I definitely hear where you are coming from. Unfortunately USPSA rules don't really allow us to question a shooter's ammo from a safety standpoint as much as they do a PF standpoint. If a shooter has 2 squibs on back to back stages all a RO can do is ask that they use a different batch. We had a discussion about this recently with "unsafe ammo". I will have to see if I can find it.

The unsafe ammo thing isn't a request -- the ammo is withdrawn from the match, and can't be used going forward.

[BillChunn]

The dead giveaway is when the bullet sticks in the cardboard.... :-)

One Master class shooter was known for providing "chrono" loads. At a state championship, one of the RO's picked up his discarded magazine and stripped out 8 rounds. A notice was posted on the weeping wall for the shooter to report back to chrono. When he didn't show up, the MD found him on the range and told him to report to chrono as soon as possible

He didn't go.

They changed him to minor.

Depending on when this was, it may not have been the right call. From Appendix C2:

42. The scores of a competitor who, for any reason, fails to present his firearm for testing at the designated time and location and/or who fails to provide sample rounds for testing whenever requested by a Match Official will be removed from the match results.

1993

No... I don't have a copy of the rulebook that dates back that far.... but I still have the match t-shirt.... :-)

Edited September 28, 2012 by BillChunn

[Jim Norman]

On occasion we have been known to bring out the Chrono. Most of our shooters do make PF, but we've had a couple over the years decide not to shoot that day. A few others after minoring have decided not to complete the match. Go figure. On occasion we do run a chrono after a match and we'll shoot their gun to see how it goes.

[shuey134]

I was at a special classifier last year that had a surprise chrono. I hadn't had a chance to chrono my new load before the match so I was a little nervous. My power factor came in at 125.5 for production, no lie. Went home and bumped up the load a little and found a chrono after that.

[ChuckB]

It's not just reloaders that need to check their loads. At Colorado ST this year someone had the misfortune of going subminor with an off the self 9mm round. Rumor had it they were TulAmmo.

[SLM]

That happened a couple years ago at A8 to a guy on my squad shooting a Sig 226 and Federal factory.

[a matt]

At a level 1 match, Chrono the top two or three. If you are going to chrono at all. That way it won't take all day. I think if you set one up that should be enough for the next time. I was at a local match with a brand new gun. I want minor. I bought a chrono the next week so not to have any more issues. That was the only time. I'm usually about a safe 172pf now.

Edited September 30, 2012 by a matt

[Babaganoosh]

At a level 1 match, Chrono the top two or three. If you are going to chrono at all. That way it won't take all day. I think if you set one up that should be enough for the next time. I was at a local match with a brand new gun. I want minor. I bought a chrono the next week so not to have any more issues. That was the only time. I'm usually about a safe 172pf now.

All you have to do is put the chrono with the classifier stage. That goes quickly anyway.

[a matt]

At a level 1 match, Chrono the top two or three. If you are going to chrono at all. That way it won't take all day. I think if you set one up that should be enough for the next time. I was at a local match with a brand new gun. I want minor. I bought a chrono the next week so not to have any more issues. That was the only time. I'm usually about a safe 172pf now.

All you have to do is put the chrono with the classifier stage. That goes quickly anyway.

That my friend is an excellent idea!

That's is the fastest stage anyway. That will help with the stages clogging up, maybe?

Its a level one match so let the shooters bitch. Don't DQ anyone let the chrono say what needs to be said. Lmao!

Did not mean to quote myself.

Edited October 1, 2012 by a matt

[shred]

Sadly it's easy enough to cheat at chrono at major matches too....

The IPSC World Shoot chrono process sucked in many ways last year, but at least they pulled ammo randomly from the mags the shooter was using at the time, without warning.

I would guess that the top 20 use regular PF ammo because the risk of getting caught is too high, but I don't believe everybody is that honest. There's a whole lot of the 'if you ain't cheating, you ain't racing" mentality around.

[polizei1]

It's boggling for me to believe, but lots of handloaders don't have a chrono.

I've been shooting USPSA for a little over a year now, and have been reloading just as long. I don't have a chrono, because I simply can't afford it.

For the first half of my beginning season, I didn't know any people well enough to ask them to use a chrono to check my rounds. It turns out I was shooting 124pf loads the whole time, which obviously isn't that big of a deal. Well, I found out when I finally asked a local shooter if I could use his chrono before my first L2 match. I bumped my charge up and am now at 135pf. I keep it there so I have plenty of room for any variables.

I personally wouldn't care if the local matches chrono'd a few times a season, as I also believe there are probably a few people that won't meet it. I can only speak for myself though, not having access to a chrono at the time, I had no way to tell, but it certainly wasn't my goal to cheat. Hell, I even use my same 135pf load when shooting Saturday Steel matches!!!

The way I see it is, it's not really a big deal because it's only a L1 match. Those who purposely cheat with lower PF loads will pay for it when they aren't used to the gun for the L2 matches.

Edited October 1, 2012 by polizei1

[forddriver]

People question My loads all the time. It usually goes like this:

What are you shooting?!?!

That thing sounds like a canon!

My response:

Thats the fun of Power Pistol!

[a.roberts]

People question My loads all the time. It usually goes like this:

What are you shooting?!?!

That thing sounds like a canon!

My response:

Thats the fun of Power Pistol!

I've had similar conversations about Longshot.

[vluc]

The way I see it is, it's not really a big deal because it's only a L1 match. Those who purposely cheat with lower PF loads will pay for it when they aren't used to the gun for the L2 matches.

But so many shooters NEVER shoot anything except local matches. Out of the several hundred shooters we have in our email database, maybe 10% shoot Level 2 or 3 matches, the rest stay local. I don't agree that it is not a big deal for those at the local level.

We may be seeing chronos at our classifiers in 2013.

[sperman]

If your local match has a match bucks, or gives you a free entry to the next match, that could be a decent amount of money over the course of a year. My guess is that most people who can win their division at a local match are going to majors and have their load worked out, but I agree that "its just a local match" isn't the right way to look at this issue.

[Shadyscott999]

If your local match has a match bucks, or gives you a free entry to the next match, that could be a decent amount of money over the course of a year. My guess is that most people who can win their division at a local match are going to majors and have their load worked out, but I agree that "its just a local match" isn't the right way to look at this issue.

It could be even easier than chrono at classifier. Randomly do 1-2 people in each squad @ the classifier. Word will get around.

On another note... The 2 foot fireball and deafening report of my open gun with 10.7g of 3n38 kinda goes without saying, is major.

[sperman]

I thought there was a rule that if you used a chrono, all competitors had to be tested.

[Nik Habicht]

I thought there was a rule that if you used a chrono, all competitors had to be tested.

There is....

So random testing, or testing the top three won't work....

[OUshooter]

I thought there was a rule that if you used a chrono, all competitors had to be tested.

There is....

So random testing, or testing the top three won't work....

You will have to help me out Sir. All I can find is:

5.8.1.5 Match Officials reserve the right to conduct chronograph or

other tests on all and any ammunition, at any time, and a reason

need not be given.

Appendix C2:

43. The Chronograph Station is considered an official stage in the match and

subject to all sections of this rule book.

Couldn't those not selected just be marked DNF on that stage? Thanks in advance.

[Neomet]

I never have. I'm just out there shooting my own game. If it is unintentional it is an honest mistake, and if they are gaming major, that is their karmic tar pit and I'm not stepping in it. Maybe one day when it means if I win the Ford F350 I might speak up, but I kinda doubt it.

[lugnut]

I get some ribbing from some of my shooting friends about the velocity of my rounds. But everytime we chrono I'm always right around 135 for my production rig.

When they give me crap I just shoot their guns. I have big hands and just strangle the pistol into not jolting during recoil.

I get ribbing too but I've never had loads that fail chrono ( I shoot minor fwiw)... I use the same loads in practice as matches. Well not totally true- I tend to seat primers a little harder and case gauge my rounds for major matches.

When people give me crap- I simply invite them to set up their chrono and they can test my gun/ammo.

Most folks have no idea what different loads can do to recoil/sound and when they figure it out they are usually quite surprised.... that all being said I'm sure there are folks that don't make minor or major on occasion... whatever...

EDIT: At out last local major IDPA match (150 people +/-) NOT ONE person didn't pass chrono...

Edited October 2, 2012 by lugnut

[Sin-ster]

I've never been questioned or accused, but I've drawn a "crowd" around the chrono when my loads are about to go over the sensors. Subtle, but obvious.

They never SEEM disappointed when it's 130-131, every time. But I get a chuckle out of it just the same.

I shoot the same load, all year, for everything-- practice, steel, matches... It even goes through my other 9mm's, including the little M&P Shield. I typically take 3-4 of the mags I just used on a stage and pull 8 rounds out of them, just because it's easier.

At the Gator last year, I had just finished the stage when Mr. Gary came to grab a random mag off of everyone's belt. He pulled two empties before he found one with ammo in it.

[motosapiens]

It's boggling for me to believe, but lots of handloaders don't have a chrono.

I've been shooting USPSA for a little over a year now, and have been reloading just as long. I don't have a chrono, because I simply can't afford it.

They cost $100. How can you NOT afford a chrono if you can afford to travel to ANY match that uses one?

All the same, I would like to see chrono's at our local matches just as a service to competitors, so they know where they are on someone else's chrono long before they get to a major. We had one for a practice match last spring. It took less time than shooting a classifier stage. zippety-skip.