USPSA Revolver Participation

[gr7070]

I am wondering how many of the people who have 7-8 shot revolvers have 6 shooters too.

I suspect there are actually many 7-shot owners who do not own any 6-shooters. Having said that I don't know that USPSA and other sports would add many of them to their ranks.

The 7-shot 686 is quite popular. So many of the non-gun-game-players don't see any reason to buy a 6-shot 686 when the 7-shot is available - other than it's unAmerican I can understand their logic ;-). So they buy the 7-shot. And they buy them in 2" and 6" bbls as well as 4". They just don't play games and aren't thinking of buying a more universal all-around configuration.

I'm not sure many of them would migrate over to the shooting games, since they're not into the games thing anyway. Of course, there's no chance you'd get any of them without a rule change, and with a change some could come over since they wouldn't have to by another gun.

Personally, I like the idea of an Open Revolver division, but I suspect it's not a good thing for revolvers on the whole.

[buckaroo45]

I already shoot an Open revo in USPSA; my Steel Challenge Horton 627 w/ Carmoney trigger and Carden ammo. It's not competitive against a TRUE Open gun but I get trigger time and the use of a fun gun. Keeps me semi ready for the infrequent Steel Challenge matches in South Florida. Otherwise I run a tricked up 625 in 45 ACP. At 65 w/ poor eyes and hands I don't figger on beating anybody except MAYBE kids under 12 and the criminally insane. I'm here for the love of the sport. Make whatever rules you like. I'll find something to shoot with.

Ron

TY63917

_______________________________________________

My plan for this stage is to shoot until I hit something

[adweisbe]

I would love to see this happen. Lowering the barrier to entry is a good thing. It's easy to say that you don't want to let this new equipment in, but it isn't like S&W is selling new 5" 625s anymore. Remember how this sport works for the people who don't already have their equipment.

Edited September 13, 2011 by adweisbe

[Dwain C. Baer]

Nice looking revolvers "Buckaroo45"

[West Texas Granny]

I'm not in favor of 7 or 8 shot revolvers being allowed. If they are then I put my revolver down and join the spray and pray crowd.

[diehli]

First the disclaimer: I don't have a revolver and have only shot one once (a Ruger in .38 Special, about a decade ago). My first one will be a 617 that'll be Carmoney'd (if he'll accept my business) and have an optic slapped on it. That's probably some time off. Dunno where it'll go from there.

So, with that out there, if the point is to increase revolver participation, wouldn't considering what most people have (kind of like what was done to form Production and Singlestack Divisions) be paramount?

Wouldn't the majority of revolvers in the general population be of the ICORE Retro/Classic type, i.e. a non-moonclipped 6-shooter in .38 Special (or, at least, in .357 Magnum with the majority of rounds being put through them .38 Special)?

But is the general population a good source to draw from for Revolver Division, or is recruiting members from other disciplines or—within USPSA—other Divisions the only reasonable thing given the de facto 8-round arrays?

If the general population is a good source, does modifying the power factor required to make major make sense? Would making power factor somehow contingent on something like whether the revo uses moonclips or speedloaders work? I'm thinking that if you make the current major factor, you make major, but if you make the standard .38 Special factor (105, it appears) and use speedloaders, major, but if you use moonclips, minor. Could/would this alienate current USPSA revo shooters?

Or am I just a bottomfeeder intruding where I'm not welcome?

Edited September 14, 2011 by diehli

[No.343]

If they made moonclipped guns minor I would reach through the cowebs to grab the old limited gun and join WT Granny in spraying and praying. I learned during Area 4 that minor is very bad for your scores.

[Bubber]

If they made moonclipped guns minor I would reach through the cowebs to grab the old limited gun and join WT Granny in spraying and praying. I learned during Area 4 that minor is very bad for your scores.

It was worth at least 4 1/2 points. Lowereing the PF floor would be nice so that it would not beat up my elbows and such. Making moonclip guns minor is not an option I wuld consider as it accomplishes nothing. It is easier to learn to relosd with a moonclip gun but that is where it ends. ONe still has to perform under match conditions. In a couple of weeks I will see if the other options discussed will affect revovler turnout. I hope at least a few take advantage of the opportunity to try the 7 & 8 shot vs the 6 shot in a match. Anyone get any data yet? Later rdd

[diehli]

I thought what I proposed was pretty clear. The minor PF floor is lowered to 105. Major is major (165) whether moonclipped, speedloaded, or single-loaded. A moonclipped minor gun is scored minor. A speedloaded minor gun is scored major so as to make the majority of revolvers out in the real world appear competitive in the Division.

[Bubber]

I thought what I proposed was pretty clear. The minor PF floor is lowered to 105. Major is major (165) whether moonclipped, speedloaded, or single-loaded. A moonclipped minor gun is scored minor. A speedloaded minor gun is scored major so as to make the majority of revolvers out in the real world appear competitive in the Division.

After I found my glasses and reread your post I see I misunderstood.but

if you make the standard .38 Special factor (105, it appears) and use speedloaders, major, but if you use moonclips, minor.

The only thing that registered on my brain (not enought room for a lot of information there) was the last part. I see now that major for moonclipped gun is at 165 and major for a speedloader gun is (whatever is decided). But we want to go a step further to include 7 and 8 shot, and open revolvers to their fullest, or at least see if it is feasible and to what cost. So if you are in the OKC area on the first Saturday in Oct bring it down so we can get some viable data. Film at eleven. later rdd

[No.343]

I'm afraid that I had the same misunderstanding as Bubber. I would hope that if we make some changes that we make them simple. I can see lowering the minor PF to allow non-reloaders to be able to play. I would prefer to see major scoring to be based on the actual power factor shot.

[Gregg K]

So if you are in the OKC area on the first Saturday in Oct bring it down so we can get some viable data. Film at eleven. later rdd

I wish you didn't live so far up north.

I would love to shoot my 8 shooter at minor heads up against 6 shot major. Most of the matches that I have went to the 8 shot would have a definite advantage. You could design stages to negate the 8 shooters advantage but I think at most of the matches the 8 shooter would rule.

[10mmdave]

Anyone get any data yet? Later rdd

Not yet Bubber, tried last night but Wednesday night practice is too chaotic !

Hope to try this out in the next 2 weeks.

Afa lowering minor, I’d rather see an approved ammo like ICORE does (do they still do that ??)

Steel is tough enough to reliably knockdown at 125 min. pf, lowering the pf just creates

more problems for the match folks to calibrate the steel.

The speed loader part of that idea is interesting.

[gr7070]

Making speed loaders more competitive would possibly do more for revolver participation than anything. I strongly believe 38 Special are far more popular wheel guns than .45s. IDPA SSR participation appears to be at least 2x more than ESR from what I've seen of sanctioned match results around the country.

I still don't think you're gong to see a huge improvement in participation, though. As I said in an earlier post *revolver* is what is wrong with the revolver division, not 1 or 2 rounds or minor or speedloaders, etc. They're not autos, that's what's wrong and that can't be fixed.

[West Texas Granny]

If they made moonclipped guns minor I would reach through the cowebs to grab the old limited gun and join WT Granny in spraying and praying. I learned during Area 4 that minor is very bad for your scores.

Forgive me for I have sinned. I've been lured to the dark side (semi's) by the Sig X5 and the CZ75 TS. 9mm. I am so ashamed.

[revoman]

I said that I was going to try this at my local match on Sept 18 but due to rain all day I was not able to. I will try again on Oct 2.

[No.343]

If they made moonclipped guns minor I would reach through the cowebs to grab the old limited gun and join WT Granny in spraying and praying. I learned during Area 4 that minor is very bad for your scores.

Forgive me for I have sinned. I've been lured to the dark side (semi's) by the Sig X5 and the CZ75 TS. 9mm. I am so ashamed.

God allows U-turns.

[buckaroo45]

Turn away from the shadow.

Go towards the light.

Take my hand if you want to live.

DO IT NOW!

______________________________________

This is a Public Service Message -

Submitted as part of my rehab for I too was once a sinner

[cylindrically challenged]

I'm all for 6 major and 7&8 minor in Revo division. Let's tell the BOD that we want to run this tenative rule change for a year and see the actual results. I personally think that it will add to our revolver shooter numbers. I primarily shoot Steel Challenge using my 8 shooter. My favorite action pistol sport is ICORE. But I have to drive 4 hrs. each way to get to the closest ICORE club. I also shoot some NRA Action pistol and it's nice to be able to use the same gun and powerfactor for that match too. I will not shoot USPSA because they will not allow me to use the 8 shot capacity of my revolver. I own a nice 6 shooter but I have to switch to major loads and have no fun having to take standing reloads one after another. The 8 shooter simply gets with the flow of a USPSA stage much better.

Thinking outside of the box, fun matches would be to allow 8 shot major (.357) revos in with Single Stack Auto and / or allowing 8 shot major (.357) revos in with 10 shot minor Production Autos. Now we're talking fun and allowing a lot of diversity.

[JFlowers]

As a revolver shooter ...

I like the idea of lowering the minor PF to meet 38 Special Factory specs. If that's 105, 110, 120, whatever, then cool. But I think the number needs to be representative of what anyone can buy at Walmart.

I don't like the "make speedloader minor automatically major" idea. If that happened, I would hang up my 45s and shoot puff loads in my Model 28, 38 Short brass, and SL Variants. Speedloaders can reload bloody fact with the right choice of speedloader and cartridge. I mean if I am scored major anyway. Never had issues with my current minor loads.

I have been watching the Single Stack guys a lot lately. With 8 they still make as many reloads as I do, just miss a standing reload every now and then. Sure, there are stages that really stiff the Revo shooter, but I don't see but about 1 a match.

[Bubber]

We have a couple of weeks before our try with the 8vs6 trial. We were discussing items at the ICORE match last weekend. One thing was that we have not been getting the word out to that group of shooters that do not know or shoot USPSA. These are the people we want to target to get more shooters, and especially revo shooters, to try the game. One of the guys was discussing having an Outlaw ICORE match for the PPC shooters in the area. Most if not all are LEO's and thought if it was offered to them as a LEO only event we may get some more participation for ICORE and maybe USPSA. It would not be as intimidating as they would be familiar with most of the competitiors and could put their effort into having fun. It was just a thought and we are going to pursue the effort. As soon as we have our trial 8vs6 match I will get what I can compile out to the forum. later rdd

[sargenv]

I've also shot my 8 shot in L10-Minor... a few ppl do that locally when getting ready for the IRC.. they seem to do ok...

[cas]

3) Opening the game up to 7 and 8 shot revolvers is just the natural progression of equipment, regardless.

I thought the point of revolver was to eschew the natural progression of equipment.

[curly]

I thought what I proposed was pretty clear. The minor PF floor is lowered to 105. Major is major (165) whether moonclipped, speedloaded, or single-loaded. A moonclipped minor gun is scored minor. A speedloaded minor gun is scored major so as to make the majority of revolvers out in the real world appear competitive in the Division.

After I found my glasses and reread your post I see I misunderstood.but

if you make the standard .38 Special factor (105, it appears) and use speedloaders, major, but if you use moonclips, minor.

The only thing that registered on my brain (not enought room for a lot of information there) was the last part. I see now that major for moonclipped gun is at 165 and major for a speedloader gun is (whatever is decided). But we want to go a step further to include 7 and 8 shot, and open revolvers to their fullest, or at least see if it is feasible and to what cost. So if you are in the OKC area on the first Saturday in Oct bring it down so we can get some viable data. Film at eleven. later rdd

I would love to do this but I sold my beloved 8 shot to a FREIND of mine Edited October 1, 2011 by curly

[Bubber]

I thought what I proposed was pretty clear. The minor PF floor is lowered to 105. Major is major (165) whether moonclipped, speedloaded, or single-loaded. A moonclipped minor gun is scored minor. A speedloaded minor gun is scored major so as to make the majority of revolvers out in the real world appear competitive in the Division.

After I found my glasses and reread your post I see I misunderstood.but

if you make the standard .38 Special factor (105, it appears) and use speedloaders, major, but if you use moonclips, minor.

The only thing that registered on my brain (not enought room for a lot of information there) was the last part. I see now that major for moonclipped gun is at 165 and major for a speedloader gun is (whatever is decided). But we want to go a step further to include 7 and 8 shot, and open revolvers to their fullest, or at least see if it is feasible and to what cost. So if you are in the OKC area on the first Saturday in Oct bring it down so we can get some viable data. Film at eleven. later rdd

I would love to do this but I sold my beloved 8 shot to a FREIND of mine

I would bet that he already put a dot on it but has yet to drill ports in it. And it shoots well. later rdd