cylindrically challenged

I own 2 C-More railways. And would not recommend buying one. Both of mine are temperature sensitive. The impact goes down when it's cold and they shoot higher when it's hot out. They are both polymer. The amount of shift runs about 4" inches low at 20 yards going from a 60 degree day to a 40 degree day. I never trust them. And always rezero the day before the match and just hope there isn't too big of a temperature swing by the next day. I think the plastic expands and contracts with temperature change which in turn pushes or pulls the lens out of place. I'm shooting an inexpensive $100 dollar Sightmark on my PCC. It hold it's point of aim and has a nice selection of reticles. It's as bright as the C-More too.

I've used airsoft for cross training before but was very discouraged by the durability of the equipment (Western Arms) ,the accuracy of the unrifled barrels and how badly the wind blows the little 6mm plastic BBs. It's like throwing knuckle balls. I would like to cross train with a rifled barreled .177 CO2 powered revolver. Much more durable and much more accurate at much greater distances. Crosman makes the Vigilante 10 shot revolver for 50 bucks. And Umarex makes a 686 S&W for 270 bucks. Does anyone have any experience with any of the pellet/ CO2 revolvers? Which one actually replicates the trigger pull and weight of a real S&W wheelgun? I have a complete set of 1/3 scale Steel Challenge targets and would like to start practicing with the .177 to replace 10 cents a round (and hard to find) .22s. The last time that I was able to buy bulk .22s at a Wal-Mart was March of 2013.

Has anyone approached S&W about the commercial feasability of manufacturing such a revolver? I'd think it would be particularily successful is states with 10 round limit magazine bans. Here's a revolver that could match that capacity. And the 327 mag is nothing to sneeze at from a defensive handgun point of view. Especially out of a 5" or 6" barrel.

That was awsome. It gave me an idea, maybe an annual Zombie match with a minimum power factor of 300. No sissies allowed.

The Pro-Am held in Oklahoma is an all steel shoot with par times set so short that the fastest shooters in the world can not get all of the targets down before the par time expires. In 2011 Bob Vogel took his iron sighted Glock 17 and entered it into the open division against the fastest shooters in the world. Most of these shooters were wielding full blown compensated & scoped 2011s. He won the match with the Glock 17. He then put the Glock 17 in stock division and won the match again. My point: 1. It's the indian not the arrow. 2. A great shooter can adapt to almost anything and still shoot great. 3. Don't worry about the trigger type--tune the trigger that you have and practice your butt off.

Who would you recommend to build an open division Bianchi auto??

I like that they are made out of steel and wood. During practice, my brass never hits the ground. This saves me having to tumble the brass before reloading. I don't have to get down on my knees to pick up my cases. I don't lose brass. (even at lost brass matches because I get my moonclips back) The 617 (22 lr) revolver is the world's best crosstrainer for when you don't feel like shooting up your centefire ammunition. Same trigger pull, same weight. Jerry Miculek is just "cool". I can run Steel Challenge at an 88 powerfactor. The autos can even function at this level. It give me an advantage. If I beat a bunch of autos it's looked upon with a lot of respect. If I lose, it's simply dismissed--they beat a revolver, big deal. I never look bad. And the biggest reason of all-- your talent will go further in Revolver Division. If for example you're an "A" class shooter and you go to a big match such as the Steel Challenge and you're shooting an auto you will finish 50 shooters from the top. And your competing against all of the sponsored shooters. If you go the same match with a revolver as an "A" class shooter you will actually have a shot at the podium. Huge difference. I gave this advice to a IDPA Glock shooter and he switched to revo and is this years defending SSR national champion. He would have never been able to win this title with the Glock. Competition was just too deep and filled with sponsored shooters. Now that he has earned that title, 20 years from now, he'll still be able to tell his grandchildren that he was a national champion. It just doesn't have the same ring to it as telling your grandkids that you were a master class shooter. I can legally hunt deer with my 627. And the only thing that I have to do to the gun is drop in my 215 gr. cast bullets with a butt load of WW 296 behind them. I'm extremely ready for deer season--with the gun I practice with. If I feel like it, that same 627 (8 3/8" bbl.) can be taken to an IHMSA silhouette match and in the production standing class, can be quite competitive at dropping the 200 meter rams. Most autos simply don't have this kind of flexibility.

Glad it passed. Big thanks to the area directors that supported the change.

A few tips that I've picked up over the years work particularily well for revolver. I have a set of one third scale steel challenge targets that I set up in my basement. I can set up Smoke N' Hope, Accelerator, etc. I have a CED airsoft timer and the wrist attachment so that you can wear the timer. I position the timer's mic so that it is about 3 inches from the revolver's hammer. At the sound of the buzzer I can draw and dry fire. The timer records everything-- time to first shot, splits, etc. I use a 627 S&W revolver for the drill with a C-More red dot sight. When using the red dot sight it is easier to see the quality of your trigger pull and get a good visual as to shot placement. Iron sights can work too you just don't get such clear visual feed back. You can also practice reload drills as the timer will record the last shot, reload and then record the next shot. It gives you your reload split. I used to cross train a lot with .22 revolvers. But with the shortage of .22s I don't use this training technique nearly as much. The dry fire / CED airsoft practice has allowed me to keep my skills at a high level and the only cost is a little time.

The older front locking system didn't do all that much because there is always some side to side tolerance in the ejector rod. If you push the cylinder out while it's locked up you will see how much play that system allows. The new frame detent ball lock up does not have to deal with the ejectors rod's side play. My biggest issue with 627 durability is with the stainless cylinder's tendancy to peen their notches. I have replaced both of my stainless 627 cylinders with the 327 titanium cylinders. The titanium seems much harder and since it has less mass--it slams with less force when it comes to a stop against the cylinder stop.

At our club we have between 1 and 0 revolver shooters at our matches. You could double that turnout if you pass 6major / 8 minor because I'd start shooting USPSA again. I really disliked all of the standing reloads that you ran into shooting a 625--- so I sold it. I only shoot a 627 now.

I load my 9mms as long as possible. Loading .020" off of the barrels lands and grooves, my 124 gr. Bayou bullets finish out at 1.230". At this length they work perfectly in a .38 Super magazine because the ammo is as long as a .38 Super. If you can load long like this it gives you the added advantage of greater internal case capacity. This makes it much easier to make major power factor in a 9mm. There are many gunsmiths who could cut the throating in a barrel to accept these long rounds.

I too found the multitude of standing reloads no fun. I sold my 625 and stopped shooting USPSA altogether. I'm not a big fan of bottom feeders. I use my 627 for Steel Challenge , NRA Action and steel matches at Briar Rabbit Shooting Sports where my 8 shooter is allowed to compete heads up with the 6 shooters in their revolver division. If the 6 major / 8 minor rule passes, I will be back to shoot some USPSA matches.

I had this problem before with some bad remington primers. If you looked real close at the fired primers you could see very fine cracks in the primer its self. It wasn't every primer, but the primer would have a small split at the corner where the face of the primer was bent to form the sides of the primer. This allowed high pressure gas to escape from the primer and cut my breech face. Your photos show gas cutting around the primer pocket. The high pressure gas is either escaping out of a loose primer pocket or out of the primer its self. If you have any of the fired rounds left over from the breach face eating rounds, give them a good look over for small soot stains where the high pressure gas was escaping and go from there. It could be a bad batch of primers or just too much pressure for the primer pockets to hold. Like Benny said, slower powders could reduce your pressures. Also, push your overall length as far out as possible, this too can lower you case pressures. I load my 9mms on a 2011 platform clear out to 1.240". That way my pressures are no worse than a .38 Super. And they feed better from a 1911/2011 platform at this length. If your barrel throat will not accept a round of this length any good gunsmith could throat your barrel to accomplish this.

But couldn't you have placed even higher if you would have been allowed to shoot your 8 shot revolver as major power factor in Production? I would love to see a BOD rule change to allow this. Allow stock 627s to be able to shoot 357 major ammo in Production.

In Single Stack you can compete shooting 10 minor or 8 major. So far all of the big matches have been won by competitors shooting 8 major. But in single stack--major and minor--reloading times are the same. If 8 major revolvers were allowed in production you would have the same match up (8 major vs. 10 minor) but the auto would have a significant advantage of reload speed. Simple change and a lot of fun at the club level.

I'm not trying to change Revolver Division. I'm trying to find a simple rule change that would allow fans of the 627 to use their revolvers to their maximum capability. I have tried conventional 6 shot major USPSA matches. I found it so masochistic that I sold my 625. But 8 majorrevolver against 10 shot auto minor in Production Division sounds fun. I'm trying to change Production Division not Revolver Division.

"They can shoot l-10 and be in the same boat as the 6 vs 8." This is a poor match up from what I am proposing. In Limited 10 you have to have a minimum of .40 cal. to be allowed to shoot major. So with a 357 you are forced to shoot 8 minor versus autos that can shoot 10 shot major plus the autos faster reloads. You wouldn't have even a remote chance of being competitive.

We have tried 6 shot major revos in USPSA for years and ridiculously low turnouts are proving that the average person does not enjoy the masochistic drill of repetitive standing reloads. You have no chance of getting into the flow of an 8 round neutral stage with a 6 shot revolver. A one legged man in a butt kicking contest comes to mind. And even though the majority of our voters would prefer allowing 8 minorinto revolver division, there is still a vocal minority wanting to stay put. While they are fighting this out---what is the harm of allowing unmodified 8 shot major power factor revolvers into Production? It would just give the revolver guys somewhere they can shoot their 8 shot 627s to full capacity. Weigh out the risk/benefit of this request, it will not step on any of the top production shooters toes (they'll still win)and it will allow 627 nuts a place to play with their magnums. Shooting 357s out of a 357 is as production as it gets. It's a win win request. There is no down side. And at the club level--with a little skill advantage--you could even be competitive with the minor scored production autos. This would be a fun challenge.

Carmony: Without a BOD rule change you aren't even allowed to shoot a .357 as a major load in limited 10. (.40 cal. minimum) Jaxshooter & Grumpyone: Because of the scoring advantage of major over minor-- it's an attempt to overcome some of the inherent disadvantage of the revolver's slower reload speed. You still won't be able to win major matches for this very reason (reload speed) but you would be more competitive at the club level. Bubber: I really don't want success as being defined as not finishing last-- with such a rule-- at the club level--you might win a match or two if you could use major in Production. Carmony: I'm still not allowed to shoot all 8 rounds out of my revolver in revolver division. That's why major in Production might be a more palatable concept than 8 rounds minor vs. 6 rounds major in Revolver Division.

While we are looking for places to use our 8 shot revos why not push for a BOD rule change to allow 8 shot / major power factor / revolvers in Production Division. It's not like the revolver could win any major matches. I think everyone would agree to that. But it might close the gap to where a good revlover shooter could be competitive once in a while at the club level. A 5 inch 627 shooting the ammo that it was built to handle (357 mag) is about as stock and/or production as it gets. I'm not sure how to set up a voting poll but I'd like to see how the vote tally would pan out on this one.

I agree that there is really no contest with an 8 minor revo against an 11 shot production auto. So USPSA should throw the production revolver guys a bone and allow the 8 shot revolver guys to shoot major power factor. It would be big fun to get to use the 357 mag as a 357 against the wee 9 millimeters. What's more production than a stock 5" 627 shooting the ammo it was designed to fire.

Slightly off topic but something that would be really fun would be to allow 8 shot--unmodified--627's to be able to shoot major power factor in Production Division. That would be a blast. The revos probably wouldn't be competitive at the big matches but a good revo shooter could probably be competitive at the local club level.

I have shot my 625 in USPSA matches but found the constant standing reloads to be so frustrating that I sold the gun. I now only shoot my 627 in ICORE, Steel Challenge and NRA Action. I will not shoot USPSA with a 6 shot wheelgun. In my other disciplines my times and scores with the bottomfeeders are competitive. But in USPSA there's just no way to do that with a 6 shooter. I enjoy giving bottom feeders a run for their money in the other disciplines. Allowing 8 shooters in would definately increase my participation in USPSA. 8 shot arrays would be a welcome challenge to get through clean and then be able to load on the run. You could then develop a natural flow for the stage. USPSA with a 6 shooter just isn't fun.

Gman Bart, What Quickload is failing to take into account is that the 9mm can be loaded to a much greater OAL in a 1911/2011 platform. Quickload has to base it's 9mm data for an OAL that will fit in Glocks & XDs, etc. and that's only 1.160". If the 9mm is loaded to the same OAL as the .38 Super with the same bullet and same powder the pressures will be similar. When you stretch the 9mm out to 1.240" you have created a whole new cartridge. If you take a .38Special case and load it to a .357 overall length you can use 357 mag. load data (so long as the ammo is being fired in a 357 revolver). .38 Super vs. 9mm is no different. What brass you use is irrelevant, it's the case capacity that will determine your pressures. On a 9mm just hang the bullet further out front to create the same case capacity.