USPSA Revolver Participation

[Bubber]

"This has already taken place in ICORE with the IRC. The IRC alone had 81 open shooters, 119 limited shooters and 32 classic shooters. Regional particapation in 2011 shows 23 open, 9 limited and 5 classic in the Rocky Mountain Region. 15 open, 47 limited and 18 classic in the Central States Region. 38 open, 53 limited and 19 classic in the Southwest Region. For a total of 157 open, 228 limited and 74 classic and you add these all together it comes to 459.

If USPSA could draw 10% of these contestants to any area matches or even nationals it would triple the particapation that is currently taking place now. The majority of the shooters from ICORE are from California and that shows from the particpation at the Southwest Regional but look at the numbers for the Central States and that drew shooter from all over. If we are to grow in numbers we need to expand and experiment. Not all change is good but you will never know if change is never tried."

There are just not that many shooters hanging out there shooting their revolvers in ICORE and not shooting USPSA to draw from. Many shoot in the other divisions with other guns. You are culling from a much smaller pool than you are assuming

Underlug, it would be nice to see how many of the ICORE revo shooters shoot USPSA and what divisions they do shoot. Maybe we could poll the shooters next year IRC to get a good picture. But I doo feel yur assumptions are correct about the smaller pool to draw, (cull), from. later rdd

Edited August 23, 2011 by Bubber

[Pseudonym]

Bubber I am clear on that, my communication skills are letting me down again. Here is what I am getting at, as I read the rules, 7 and 8 shot revolvers are legal in revolver class,they must however reload after firing 6 rounds. Are the people with 7 and 8 shot revolvers at a competitive disadvantage having to make a reload with 2 live rounds unfired? Hopefully that is more clear. If so how are they at a disadvantage?

[Joe4d]

I think we can argue till we are blue in the face, but will never know for sure, create a provisional division, let revolver be 6 shot max for major 8 shot max for minor and see how the scores pan out.

The fact that 200 people shot a nearby icore match doesnt mean alot of those people dont already also shoot USPSA with a different gun. I shoot IDPA with a single stack .40, creating SS didnt get me shooting USPSA, I was already shooting it with a Para.

[Bubber]

Bubber I am clear on that, my communication skills are letting me down again. Here is what I am getting at, as I read the rules, 7 and 8 shot revolvers are legal in revolver class,they must however reload after firing 6 rounds. Are the people with 7 and 8 shot revolvers at a competitive disadvantage having to make a reload with 2 live rounds unfired? Hopefully that is more clear. If so how are they at a disadvantage?

The 7 and 8 shots are not at a disadvantage, they would just like to use their revos to the fullest. Right now if you fire the 7th shot it is a trip to open, if there is an open division to shoot in. If not...I need to RFM to see what it says, I forgot. later rdd

[mrmetalweld57]

I currently shoot revolver in NRA action, the Masters, and the Memphis charity match. That's the only uspsa match I shoot revlover in because I don't like shooting 8 round courses with a 6 shot gun. If 8 shot guns are ever allowed that'll be all I shoot. My memory and my eyes aren't that good anymore. Shooting a 6 shooter on a semi-auto course just isn't that fun for me. Until this class is made inclusive it will not grow. This is pretty much a one gun class in which only a 625 is dominant. Frustrating!! I'm done. Ed

[revoman]

"This has already taken place in ICORE with the IRC. The IRC alone had 81 open shooters, 119 limited shooters and 32 classic shooters. Regional particapation in 2011 shows 23 open, 9 limited and 5 classic in the Rocky Mountain Region. 15 open, 47 limited and 18 classic in the Central States Region. 38 open, 53 limited and 19 classic in the Southwest Region. For a total of 157 open, 228 limited and 74 classic and you add these all together it comes to 459.

If USPSA could draw 10% of these contestants to any area matches or even nationals it would triple the particapation that is currently taking place now. The majority of the shooters from ICORE are from California and that shows from the particpation at the Southwest Regional but look at the numbers for the Central States and that drew shooter from all over. If we are to grow in numbers we need to expand and experiment. Not all change is good but you will never know if change is never tried."

There are just not that many shooters hanging out there shooting their revolvers in ICORE and not shooting USPSA to draw from. Many shoot in the other divisions with other guns. You are culling from a much smaller pool than you are assuming

Underlug, it would be nice to see how many of the ICORE revo shooters shoot USPSA and what divisions they do shoot. Maybe we could poll the shooters next year IRC to get a good picture. But I doo feel yur assumptions are correct about the smaller pool to draw, (cull), from. later rdd

I am assuming that the ICORE shooters who only have 8 shot revolvers and would like to only shoot against revolver shooters would use these in USPSA but choose to use other guns as they do not want to compete against autos with the revolver and risk going to open if they touch off a 7th round. I am with Bubber on taking a poll at the IRC. Just to give an idea I have six 8 shot revolvers and two 6 shot revolvers and the only reason I have the two 6 shot is that is what I had to buy to shoot in the revolver division in USPSA. I am lucky that I can afford to play so much but if I wasn't and I could only choose one revolver I would choose an 8 shot and shoot ICORE and steel and skip USPSA by not wanting to be restricted by my only choice of gun.

[Pseudonym]

Thanks Bubber. I do not own or have a 7 or 8 shot just wanted to make sure there was nothing I was missing. So they can compete in revolver without a competitive disadvantage if they choose to do so, just have to be able to count to 6. They could also compete in production and L-10 as well and "Use their revos to the fullest" if they choose to do so.

[underlug]

"This has already taken place in ICORE with the IRC. The IRC alone had 81 open shooters, 119 limited shooters and 32 classic shooters. Regional particapation in 2011 shows 23 open, 9 limited and 5 classic in the Rocky Mountain Region. 15 open, 47 limited and 18 classic in the Central States Region. 38 open, 53 limited and 19 classic in the Southwest Region. For a total of 157 open, 228 limited and 74 classic and you add these all together it comes to 459.

If USPSA could draw 10% of these contestants to any area matches or even nationals it would triple the particapation that is currently taking place now. The majority of the shooters from ICORE are from California and that shows from the particpation at the Southwest Regional but look at the numbers for the Central States and that drew shooter from all over. If we are to grow in numbers we need to expand and experiment. Not all change is good but you will never know if change is never tried."

There are just not that many shooters hanging out there shooting their revolvers in ICORE and not shooting USPSA to draw from. Many shoot in the other divisions with other guns. You are culling from a much smaller pool than you are assuming

Underlug, it would be nice to see how many of the ICORE revo shooters shoot USPSA and what divisions they do shoot. Maybe we could poll the shooters next year IRC to get a good picture. But I doo feel yur assumptions are correct about the smaller pool to draw, (cull), from. later rdd

Think we'd have a little extra time to do so during the awards presentations?

[underlug]

Bubber I am clear on that, my communication skills are letting me down again. Here is what I am getting at, as I read the rules, 7 and 8 shot revolvers are legal in revolver class,they must however reload after firing 6 rounds. Are the people with 7 and 8 shot revolvers at a competitive disadvantage having to make a reload with 2 live rounds unfired? Hopefully that is more clear. If so how are they at a disadvantage?

The 7 and 8 shots are not at a disadvantage, they would just like to use their revos to the fullest. Right now if you fire the 7th shot it is a trip to open, if there is an open division to shoot in. If not...I need to RFM to see what it says, I forgot. later rdd

We could attack this with the firing of a 7 and/or 8th shot a trip to procedural land or some other penalty rather than openville. 6 shooters are counting to 6 to avoid the click

[Carmoney]

I think we can argue till we are blue in the face, but will never know for sure, create a provisional division, let revolver be 6 shot max for major 8 shot max for minor and see how the scores pan out.

I agree.

Some of you might be surprised to hear I voted to allow the 7- and 8-shot minor option. I think it would be very interesting to give it a try, and it might be just the thing to help re-invigorate the division.

The other thing that would make a real difference is a stand-alone USPSA Revolver Nationals with a real prize table.

[cas]

...I don't like shooting 8 round courses with a 6 shot gun… ...Shooting a 6 shooter on a semi-auto course just isn't that fun for me.

See, that's exactly what makes it fun for me.

[Norther]

One thing no one is mentioning, comparing the major/minor scoring with SS division, is that in SS minor gets only 25% more shots than major. In Revolver, an 8 shot would get 33.33% more. A bigger advantage. Personally, I just started shooting USPSA in revolver just because I felt like getting classified in all 6 divisions, and it's the last one. I'm only a C so far, but I think that'll change soon, and I am having a blast even on the long courses. At least I'm beating some of the semi-autos now... USPSA and steel challenge are the only games in town, but this winter maybe I'll drive the 5.5 hours one way to get to an IDPA match. ICORE sounds fun, but not available here.

Edited August 24, 2011 by six-gun shooter

[underlug]

I think we can argue till we are blue in the face, but will never know for sure, create a provisional division, let revolver be 6 shot max for major 8 shot max for minor and see how the scores pan out.

I agree.

Some of you might be surprised to hear I voted to allow the 7- and 8-shot minor option. I think it would be very interesting to give it a try, and it might be just the thing to help re-invigorate the division.

The other thing that would make a real difference is a stand-alone USPSA Revolver Nationals with a real prize table.

I guess you can try it. My only fear is that you keep hearing that USPSA wants to dump a division. The ones mentioned are revolver and L-10. I don't think L-10 is going anywhere because of the state mag restrictions. By becoming a bigger PIA for match directors (more work), it might become easier to get rid of us.

[Carmoney]

I think we can argue till we are blue in the face, but will never know for sure, create a provisional division, let revolver be 6 shot max for major 8 shot max for minor and see how the scores pan out.

I agree.

Some of you might be surprised to hear I voted to allow the 7- and 8-shot minor option. I think it would be very interesting to give it a try, and it might be just the thing to help re-invigorate the division.

The other thing that would make a real difference is a stand-alone USPSA Revolver Nationals with a real prize table.

I guess you can try it. My only fear is that you keep hearing that USPSA wants to dump a division. The ones mentioned are revolver and L-10. I don't think L-10 is going anywhere because of the state mag restrictions. By becoming a bigger PIA for match directors (more work), it might become easier to get rid of us.

Several years ago that was discussed, but it really hasn't been much of a topic lately. And of course we all know that scores are done by computer, so there really truly isn't a PIA factor at all.

I don't see that much downside to giving the 8-shot minor option a try. I suppose a few of the cheapos will bitch about their 6-shooters becoming "instantly obsolete." But that's not necessarily true, depending on stage design. Besides, most serious wheelmen have at least one 8-shooter in the safe already. There are plenty of aging revolver guys who would benefit from the lower recoil impulse of minor-powered .38s.

The vote here is roughly split. It doesn't appear there is a consensus to campaign the BOD to make a change. So I guess the discussion, while interesting, is academic.

[underlug]

I think we can argue till we are blue in the face, but will never know for sure, create a provisional division, let revolver be 6 shot max for major 8 shot max for minor and see how the scores pan out.

I agree.

Some of you might be surprised to hear I voted to allow the 7- and 8-shot minor option. I think it would be very interesting to give it a try, and it might be just the thing to help re-invigorate the division.

The other thing that would make a real difference is a stand-alone USPSA Revolver Nationals with a real prize table.

I guess you can try it. My only fear is that you keep hearing that USPSA wants to dump a division. The ones mentioned are revolver and L-10. I don't think L-10 is going anywhere because of the state mag restrictions. By becoming a bigger PIA for match directors (more work), it might become easier to get rid of us.

Several years ago that was discussed, but it really hasn't been much of a topic lately. And of course we all know that scores are done by computer, so there really truly isn't a PIA factor at all.

I don't see that much downside to giving the 8-shot minor option a try. I suppose a few of the cheapos will bitch about their 6-shooters becoming "instantly obsolete." But that's not necessarily true, depending on stage design. Besides, most serious wheelmen have at least one 8-shooter in the safe already. There are plenty of aging revolver guys who would benefit from the lower recoil impulse of minor-powered .38s.

The vote here is roughly split. It doesn't appear there is a consensus to campaign the BOD to make a change. So I guess the discussion, while interesting, is academic.

I don't want to be the stick in the mud. I just don't see the potential gain. I don't think there are that many people who just own 8 shooters waiting for a rule change so they can shoot USPSA. I think the cost of dilution outweighs that potential gain, but, why not try, I guess. I think there are a lot more people who will choose between the 625 and 627 they already own.

[spanky]

We allow SS to have 10 shots instead of 8 if scored minor so why not the same for Revo?

[10mmdave]

The vote here is roughly split. It doesn't appear there is a consensus to campaign the BOD to make a change. So I guess the discussion, while interesting, is academic.

Have to agree with mike, 50/50 on the 1st question and not many takers for the last question.

(9 would be encouraged to shoot at the time of this post)

It would be interesting to try but with only 9 additional shooters it doesn't look worth the bother

to headquarters.

Maybe in a few more years. Or maybe this thread isn't reaching out far enough ??

Did notice 107 member votes but only 95 show up ?

A lot of folks did bring up some valid points, until it is tried we'll never know.

Thinking about this the last few days I wonder what it would do to the USPSA Revo classifier's ?

If USPSA Revo mirrored ICORE limited would it increase or decrease shooters in that game ?

Oh well, it's been a good discussion so far.

[spanky]

The vote here is roughly split. It doesn't appear there is a consensus to campaign the BOD to make a change. So I guess the discussion, while interesting, is academic.

Have to agree with mike, 50/50 on the 1st question and not many takers for the last question.

(9 would be encouraged to shoot at the time of this post)

It would be interesting to try but with only 9 additional shooters it doesn't look worth the bother

to headquarters.

Maybe in a few more years. Or maybe this thread isn't reaching out far enough ??

Did notice 107 member votes but only 95 show up ?

A lot of folks did bring up some valid points, until it is tried we'll never know.

Thinking about this the last few days I wonder what it would do to the USPSA Revo classifier's ?

If USPSA Revo mirrored ICORE limited would it increase or decrease shooters in that game ?

Oh well, it's been a good discussion so far.

The poll was set for multiple options so the numbers mightn't mesh exactly.

[underlug]

The vote here is roughly split. It doesn't appear there is a consensus to campaign the BOD to make a change. So I guess the discussion, while interesting, is academic.

Have to agree with mike, 50/50 on the 1st question and not many takers for the last question.

(9 would be encouraged to shoot at the time of this post)

It would be interesting to try but with only 9 additional shooters it doesn't look worth the bother

to headquarters.

Maybe in a few more years. Or maybe this thread isn't reaching out far enough ??

Did notice 107 member votes but only 95 show up ?

A lot of folks did bring up some valid points, until it is tried we'll never know.

Thinking about this the last few days I wonder what it would do to the USPSA Revo classifier's ?

If USPSA Revo mirrored ICORE limited would it increase or decrease shooters in that game ?

Oh well, it's been a good discussion so far.

Did not even consider the classifiers. Those that are not 6 shot friendly would skewer things wouldn't it?

[underlug]

We allow SS to have 10 shots instead of 8 if scored minor so why not the same for Revo?

You can get through an 8 shot array with 8 shots without a reload. You cannot with 6. And now there is the question raised re classifiers

[Bubber]

Ok, I will talk to the head guys at the OKCGC to give this a try again. I need to talk to all the Revo shooters there to let them know the plan and get the ok. It can work a couple of ways. All of us shoot together, we squad this way as much as possible anyway. We can have the guys shoot in any division they wish and I can change them over to Revo (Open, eight or what ever) and compile the data for a Revo match where all the revos will be scored against themselves using the hit factors they have earned and going through the process. 7 and 8 score minor, no mater if they make major or not. Doing this separate will not affect the scoring of the overall match and should not incurr any more work for the MD's and we usually R.O ourselves. We can also just let the guys shoot in revo division as is but assure theat they shoot no more than 6 prior to a reload on the classifiers only. We have some talented Revo guys with okcIcore, No343 and Chris C. in the mix so if they could shoot the eight shot and at least one of them shoot the standard we can see if an advantage is gained. We are pretty even, if we can slow okcicore down. I can garner all the info I can get and post it on the Revo Forum. And if someone else would give a go also we can get some good numbers. It will take a few months to get the stuff rolling. But I am willing to give it a go. later rdd

[No.343]

Ok, I will talk to the head guys at the OKCGC to give this a try again. I need to talk to all the Revo shooters there to let them know the plan and get the ok. It can work a couple of ways. All of us shoot together, we squad this way as much as possible anyway. We can have the guys shoot in any division they wish and I can change them over to Revo (Open, eight or what ever) and compile the data for a Revo match where all the revos will be scored against themselves using the hit factors they have earned and going through the process. 7 and 8 score minor, no mater if they make major or not. Doing this separate will not affect the scoring of the overall match and should not incurr any more work for the MD's and we usually R.O ourselves. We can also just let the guys shoot in revo division as is but assure theat they shoot no more than 6 prior to a reload on the classifiers only. We have some talented Revo guys with okcIcore, No343 and Chris C. in the mix so if they could shoot the eight shot and at least one of them shoot the standard we can see if an advantage is gained. We are pretty even, if we can slow okcicore down. I can garner all the info I can get and post it on the Revo Forum. And if someone else would give a go also we can get some good numbers. It will take a few months to get the stuff rolling. But I am willing to give it a go. later rdd

I don't own an eight shot, so I volunteer to shoot the standard way. I can take a whooping.

[JRB]

I agree with all of you on this subject.

I am a newbe to the Revolver, shot an auto in all divisions in IPSC/USPSA. I am now shooting 1 of 2 custom Revolvers in Action Pistol ( 6 shot's ) what a hoot, and the few times i get to shoot in IPSC/USPSA I love to use the Revolver. I am also a left handed shooter, so reloads are a nightmare.

Revolvers are 6 shots and game should stay the same.

7 and 8 shots are great, but the problem always comes down to the same thing. " He who has the most money wins ".

It should not be this way, but you all know it is. The guy who has a good 6 shot that works well should not be forced to go broke just to play.

IPSC/USPSA and the rules of the 2 games promote " he who has the most money wins " no guns in all the divisions except OPEN even meet the reality of of the shelf.

Please give me a chance to put my body armor on before you start shooting at me.

I have never in my 30 years of shooting, had so much fun shooting my 2 Revolvers. And to those who shot them well it's a treat to watch.

Thanks

JRB

[Bubber]

I agree with all of you on this subject.

I am a newbe to the Revolver, shot an auto in all divisions in IPSC/USPSA. I am now shooting 1 of 2 custom Revolvers in Action Pistol ( 6 shot's ) what a hoot, and the few times i get to shoot in IPSC/USPSA I love to use the Revolver. I am also a left handed shooter, so reloads are a nightmare.

Revolvers are 6 shots and game should stay the same.

7 and 8 shots are great, but the problem always comes down to the same thing. " He who has the most money wins ".

It should not be this way, but you all know it is. The guy who has a good 6 shot that works well should not be forced to go broke just to play.

IPSC/USPSA and the rules of the 2 games promote " he who has the most money wins " no guns in all the divisions except OPEN even meet the reality of of the shelf.

Please give me a chance to put my body armor on before you start shooting at me.

I have never in my 30 years of shooting, had so much fun shooting my 2 Revolvers. And to those who shot them well it's a treat to watch.

Thanks

JRB

Talk No.343 into posting his lefty reload it is quite smooth. There are several others that have some good lefty loads. They can prove that a lefty is not hadicapped doing reloads. I can prove some righties are handicapped.

edited to put my comments in the right spot.

Edited August 24, 2011 by Bubber

[CDPMatt]

I already shoot SSR/ESR but am taking a break and shooting bottom feeders this year. I've shot a few USPSA matches with my 625 and it was fun.... probably will again but the addition of 7 or 8 shots wouldn't intice me any more as I don't shoot or have an ICORE club near me.