2011 Single Stack Nationals

[RIIID]

Not withstanding the weather, we can not control the wind, rain, or cold, the match was a snoozer! Quite frankly, it was not on par with previous single stack nationals. The stages were simple requiring almost no option but to shoot them one way. IMO there were plainly to many short courses.

I accept traditionally, the 1911 Society ran the match in accordance with their perspective. This is fine. But as a USPSA National level match, there should be an upgrade as to the complexity and challenge to some (some not all) stages.

I would rather see a smaller number of stages with larger variety of challenges.

As a USPSA National Championship, the rules for the prize table need to change. I will say this year's drawings for guns was greatly appreciated! That decision was on of the most generous considerations I have seen in a long time. The prize table itself should be expanded. I truly appreciate Springfield Armory's committment to the match. It is incredible! Safariland again was a contributor. But if USPSA is going to be involved then lets expand the prize table.

I did appreciate the ROs and staff. They, once again, were great to all the shooters.

As with most endeavors of this type, there is always next year to make improvements from the lessons learned from this year's match.

One must realize that this match is the "Single Stack Classic" first and foremost with the USPSA Nationals piggy backing off of it. I think I'm right in saying that the SSC is the second longest running major match in the country with the "Desert Classic" being the first. If you want high round count and less demanding skill level stages tell the USPSA President what you want. I'm sure the SS Nationals can be thrown in with the rest of the Nationals in the fall.

As to the prize table size I'm sure the SSC would accept any prizes donated and distribute them to the shooters. A bigger prize table means higher match fees to pay for said prize table. The first three years of the match had a "big" prize table but that takes a lot of effort from someone to put together. I'm sure they would accept any help your willing to give. If you want a bigger SS Nationals tell USPSA to step up and deliver.

From what I can tell USPSA isn't putting much into this match except for calling it "Their Nationals" and collecting mission count money.

I get tired of hearing how USPSA members want to make the SSC more like USPSA matches they're used to shooting. The SSC is a true skills match, it may look super simple but it just chews people up every year, year after year. You can't make mistakes and expect to be at the top.

Rich

[martyg00]

Well put Rich!

And I agree completely!

Marty

A-7424

Edited May 16, 2011 by martyg00

[rgkeller]

Amen, Rich.

This year no one from USPSA was even at the awards ceremony.

[pjb45]

Rich,

I agree with most of your statements. The dearth of USPSA staff or help on the match was evident.

The match is no longer just a SSC match. There was some type of merger of the two philosophies.

Otherwise I would just be as happy if SSC ran the whole show.

If USPSA is going to be involved then they should step up to the plate and actuallyte participate/contribue that is evident to everyone; this includes COFs, Prize tables, etc.

Quite honestly and with all due respect, if you are tired of hearing about USPSA input into the match, then let the match revert back to solely SSC. IF SSC does receive benefit from being associated with USPSA then USPSA members should be able to voice their opinions.

[JakeMartens]

One must realize that this match is the "Single Stack Classic" first and foremost with the USPSA Nationals piggy backing off of it....

If you want a bigger SS Nationals tell USPSA to step up and deliver.

Obviously Single Stack Division was born out of the Single Stack Classic, maybe now it is old enough to get up and walk on its own!!

Maybe a USPSA National SS/Revolver Match, then put L10/Production, and Open/Limited back to back and let Open/Limited get away from the 8 round neutral stages.

The Western States Single Stack match hosted 250+ this year, 11 stages, 10 field courses, so it can be done.

I was very surpised to not see much in the way of USPSA "support". Even the staff shirts were the 17th annual Single Stack Classic, didn't say anything on there about the USPSA Nationals.

Yes the stages were the type that you could not shoot your way out of a mike or a noshoot because of the low round count/available points. I don't have a problem with that, and no not every stage has to be a 32 rounder either to be a good stage.

Like I said there were what I thought were a few really good stages, I liked the visual start on the standards, you don't get to see that often, but the par time for the first two strings should have been 4 seconds. I liked the all steel stage, it gave you options of either going 6, 7, 7, or taking more in the first 2 positions. Stage 10 with the chair saw some shooters standing up and going left first, then reloading going forward into the opening, some stood taking a step or two forward and reloading backing into the left position and a shoot house is always fun stuff.

As for a bigger prize table and higher entry fee, wasn't $200 enough? 358 shooters, probably by the time you pull out staff and sponsored shooters, what 300 paid.....that is a pretty good take don't you think.

[The Antichrome]

This year no one from USPSA was even at the awards ceremony.

The Pres. was unable to attend.

The rest of the USPSA staff onhand (basically the RO's etc.) left the awards

in the capable hands of the SSC/PASA crew while they held a memorial ceremony

and dedication for J.J.Powell.

It was a fantastic match that kicked my butt.

But how many Standards type stages can one match have? Whew;-)

[fastshooter03]

This was my first SSC/Natls or whatever.

I normally shoot Open class so I wasn't expecting much from myself but I thought the match would have been a little more intense on some of the stages.

I don't think any stage required more than two reloads.

Why the heck did I have 6 mags on my belt??

Prize table????

Was there one???

The lack of info about this match was a big turnoff.

We shot on Sat and should have left asap but waited around until other shooters we knew(who must have shot before) said there is no prize table just pistols for the class winners.

This will be my last SSC/Natls or whatever.

IMO it's just not worth the $500 it cost to do this thing.

Nick

[dohboy]

One must realize that this match is the "Single Stack Classic" first and foremost with the USPSA Nationals piggy backing off of it. I think I'm right in saying that the SSC is the second longest running major match in the country with the "Desert Classic" being the first. If you want high round count and less demanding skill level stages tell the USPSA President what you want. I'm sure the SS Nationals can be thrown in with the rest of the Nationals in the fall.

As to the prize table size I'm sure the SSC would accept any prizes donated and distribute them to the shooters. A bigger prize table means higher match fees to pay for said prize table. The first three years of the match had a "big" prize table but that takes a lot of effort from someone to put together. I'm sure they would accept any help your willing to give. If you want a bigger SS Nationals tell USPSA to step up and deliver.

From what I can tell USPSA isn't putting much into this match except for calling it "Their Nationals" and collecting mission count money.

I get tired of hearing how USPSA members want to make the SSC more like USPSA matches they're used to shooting. The SSC is a true skills match, it may look super simple but it just chews people up every year, year after year. You can't make mistakes and expect to be at the top.

Rich

I agree with you Rich! As far as I'm concerned USPSA is riding on the back of the SSC. This was my first SSTK Nationals/Classic and I liked it a lot because it emphasized shooting skills (which I'm severely lacking) more than "gaming skills". Hats off to the staff for keeping the courses of fire true to SSC standards. If I want to shoot "circus" stages, I'll attend another nationals. Thanks to all the staff/ROs for keeping the match running smooth. We shot on Friday and missed the bad weather on Saturday . If I can afford it, I plan on returning and hope the match maintains its integrity. Thanks for a great match!

Edited May 17, 2011 by Flexmoney

[Jammer1911]

Well My first Single Stack Classic is under my belt. It was a great match (even if Mother Nature didn't cooperate) The stages looked to be be easy but ate my lunch. That won't happen again. Decievingly simple yet hard! I was very humbled. The squad I shot with was great bunch of guys. I enjoyed my self even if I crashed and burned. I think the folks setting this match up did an excellent job. The sponsors (Especially Springfield Armory) did a great job with the prizes and awards. The number of guns given out was impressive (especially Sprngfield Armory) see a pattern here. Thanks to Canyon Creek also for the display of thier wares. I hope to be lucky enough to be able to get a slot again next year. Thank you for a great match and a great time.

Jammer

[super senior]

Now that we know that Dave Sevigny won the singlw stack match, what gun was he using???

[JakeMartens]

Now that we know that Dave Sevigny won the singlw stack match, what gun was he using???

Springfield Armory Custom Shop built gun

[Jadeslade]

In what way does USPSA "piggyback" off the Single Stack Classic?These us vs. them arguments are tiresome. Single Stack Division is represented at every major USPSA match and many club matches. Excellent Division. The SIngle Stack Classic has been designated, by mutual agreement, as the USPSA Single Stack Nationals. The folks at Pasa Park have graciously agreed to continue running the match. They do a bang up job by all accounts. I think pjb45's comments are as valid as anyone else's-he's seen a few matches. We complain about stages, weathers, targets, etc. So what else is new? There are no superiority issues. Lots of people always say-best match ever and it may well be, but I see that posted after every single big match, multigun, etc.- in the testosterone/adrenaline aftermath. It's a great match, I wish the weather could be better-but Illinois in the spring has rain and thunderstorms, c'est la vie. There is no need for trashing USPSA or SSS. We are on the same team. DVC

[pjb45]

Nicely Said.

[martyg00]

Nicely Said.

+2

Edited May 17, 2011 by martyg00

[Flexmoney]

+3

I think we get this same feedback every year now?

Certain matches have certain flavors.

You might be wanting strawberry ice cream, but you get chocolate ice cream. If ya think about it...isn't it nice to be having ice cream!?

Don't drop your ice cream!!

[BritinUSA]

"My momma always said, 'Life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get.'", Forest Gump

"Life is like a box of chocolates. A cheap, thoughtless, perfunctory gift that nobody ever asks for. Un-returnable because all you get back is another box of chocolates. So you're stuck with this undefinable whipped mint crap that you mindlessly wolf down when there's nothing else left to eat. Sure, once in a while there's a peanut butter cup or an English toffee. But they're gone too fast and the taste is... fleeting. So, you end up with nothing but broken bits filled with hardened jelly and teeth-shattering nuts. And if you're desperate enough to eat those, all you got left is an empty box filled with useless brown paper wrappers.", Cigarette Smoking Man, X-Files

[Gary1911A1]

I remember several years ago when the President of USPSA said something to the effect of SS replacing Limited 10, but it never happen. Me, I like the SS as it is. Maybe that has to do with my age and having shot IPSC in the late 70s' before USPSA even was a thought.

[RIIID]

There is no Us vs Them, the Them are Us and the Us are Them. The vast majority of the shooters and RO's prior to the SS Division creation were already USPSA members. The SSC wasn't a sanctioned USPSA match but it followed the rules closely, now anybody who wants to participate has to be a USPSA member.

The point is this match has been around a long time and it has been run the same way from the start. When USPSA created the Single Stack Division it was just an easy way to have a Nationals by joining with the largest SS match around. This is where the rub starts, shooters who have no knowledge of the SSC come along and want the SSC to mirror USPSA major type matches down to the last detail. If the shooters want a SS Nationals to be 100% USPSA in every aspect then get the President to put it in with the rest of the Nationals. The SSC shouldn't have to change its long time standing just so it can be called the SS Nationals.

Rich

P.S. The two main changes that are voiced most of the time are higher round count stages and a bigger prize table, neither one of these will make a match a "Great Match".

[Coach]

There is no Us vs Them, the Them are Us and the Us are Them. The vast majority of the shooters and RO's prior to the SS Division creation were already USPSA members. The SSC wasn't a sanctioned USPSA match but it followed the rules closely, now anybody who wants to participate has to be a USPSA member.

The point is this match has been around a long time and it has been run the same way from the start. When USPSA created the Single Stack Division it was just an easy way to have a Nationals by joining with the largest SS match around. This is where the rub starts, shooters who have no knowledge of the SSC come along and want the SSC to mirror USPSA major type matches down to the last detail. If the shooters want a SS Nationals to be 100% USPSA in every aspect then get the President to put it in with the rest of the Nationals. The SSC shouldn't have to change its long time standing just so it can be called the SS Nationals.

Rich

P.S. The two main changes that are voiced most of the time are higher round count stages and a bigger prize table, neither one of these will make a match a "Great Match".

What does make a great match? Isn't that a little bit in the eye of the beholder?

[BritinUSA]

I didn't shoot this match, I was just another observer. Here's what I observed:

I saw stages that had very few options, as a result it was a straight stand-up and shoot contest. There were no gimmicks, no tricks, no subtle ways of gaining an advantage. The winner was the person who shot the fastest with the most points.

This is what practical shooting used to be about (and still is if you ever take a trip outside the USA and shoot some IPSC matches). This was a good blend of speed shoots and medium to large courses of fire. The biggest stage was 24 rounds (the standards).

Does a 32 round stage make a better stage? Sometimes,... but not always. Sometimes, less is more.

This was a shooting contest, the way they used to be, the way I remember it back in the late 80's when I started shooting.

I almost wish I owned a 1911 so I could shoot the match.

But boy, was it cold...!

[Chills1994]

BritinUSA wrote:

I almost wish I owned a 1911 so I could shoot the match.

I didn't shoot the match, but you could have borrowed mine and my reloads.

[hankfan79]

I want to know if Dave got Rob's gun or not. I have heard in the past that this was the going prize to other shooters.

[rgkeller]

There were options on all of the field courses stages.

Taking the potentially faster option significantly increased the crash factor.

Great stages and great matches are not characterized by testing how fast a contestant can RUN but rather how fast and accurate the contestant can SHOOT.

[GForceLizard]

Certain matches have certain flavors.

You might be wanting strawberry ice cream, but you get chocolate ice cream. If ya think about it...isn't it nice to be having ice cream!?

I saw stages that had very few options, as a result it was a straight stand-up and shoot contest. There were no gimmicks, no tricks, no subtle ways of gaining an advantage. The winner was the person who shot the fastest with the most points.

This is what practical shooting used to be about (and still is if you ever take a trip outside the USA and shoot some IPSC matches). This was a good blend of speed shoots and medium to large courses of fire. The biggest stage was 24 rounds (the standards).

Does a 32 round stage make a better stage? Sometimes,... but not always. Sometimes, less is more.

This was a shooting contest, the way they used to be, the way I remember it back in the late 80's when I started shooting.

Isn't it nice that the Single Stack Classic is strawberry when all the other matches are chocolate? You have lots of matches to choose from, pick the flavors you like.

[BillD]

Every Major is mostly 32 rd field courses.

It's nice to see something a little different, once a year.