Thomas H

If you have more matches (and get the ICORE club started), make sure to let us know! I know at least a couple of people will come down from Nebraska to shoot.

Couple of comments: When I was an SC (when asking about steel Challenge clubs in my Section), I was told that I wasn't to be given access to the activity of the clubs in my Section with regard to Steel Challenge as my job was USPSA, and I wasn't the Section Coordinator for Steel Challenge. Literally, I wasn't supposed to be talking to clubs about it. So....if you heard that from SCs and such, it was probably because they were told it wasn't anything they were supposed to be doing. (I'm not precisely sure why, you'd think it would be the same thing, but it isn't...) I'll note that when I was the Section Coordinator, in addition to shooting USPSA and SCSA (and I'm not only in Club 13, I'm in Club 21), not only did I talk to people about SC, but I started a Level II Steel Challenge match at my local club and ran it as long as I was the SC. I talked clubs into adding on Steel Challenge affiliation, and more matches. I personally think that SCSA is a great sport by itself, AND a great way to start people in the shooting sports in general, many of whom also end up shooting USPSA. (Or at least, that's how it works out here. There is a LOT of crossover in terms of people shooting both sports. It interests me how many people are saying that the two groups are fairly separate in their area.) I get how people are saying "we aren't represented" but what I'm not getting out of this thread is exactly what problems there are at the moment. And....you vote on ADs just like everyone else. You have a USPSA/SCSA membership. When voting for your ADs, make sure that SC is a part of why you vote. Are there current issues that are serious problems? How is the current BoD failing their Steel Challenge people? Every time someone has asked that question, no one has actually listed any actual answers. And as for the "we want to be proactive!" I get that---but shouldn't that mean making sure the current ADs and SCs actually pay attention to SC, instead of (as someone else pointed out) literally adding another layer of bureaucracy to this? That's my opinion, at least. As someone who shoots a number of Steel Challenge matches (29 this year so far, including 3 majors, plus one more major next week) in addition to being an RM who has the SC endorsement (and I was the RM for the Area 3 Steel Challenge Championship), plus being a member of Club 13 (I have three A classifications, one M, and the other nine are GM)-----I really enjoy shooting Steel Challenge. And at the moment, I think a better solution to "we aren't being represented" is to have the BoD acknowledge officially that the Areas and Sections also include the SC clubs in them, and that the ADs and SCs also need to be taking care of their SC clubs. And if those people don't want to do it---well, that's why we vote. My opinion.

I personally think that indeed, physicality makes a difference, and many people will indeed eventually hit a hard limit beyond which they can go no faster, with that hard limit flat-out being slower than certain standouts that exist in the sport today. That being said, I also think that people's hard limit is at a significantly higher level than they think it is. However, most will probably never reach it even with unlimited practice time because most people aren't good at self-analysis, nor do they take classes from people who are good at functional analysis. (As such, they won't know why they aren't faster, and no one will be able to tell them what is wrong with their technique and where they are losing time.) So....if people had the resources (the range, with steel) and time (and ammo!) to practice in a fairly unlimited fashion on their own, I personally think that most anyone (with basic average physicality) could make A-class in pretty much any centerfire division, and M-class in the rest. With some good analysis, making M in centerfire and GM in the rest is completely possible. However, since at the moment the top end of our sport (in the rimfire divisions especially) is significantly higher than 100% GM, my personal belief is that on their own, most people wouldn't be able to pass that point (making GM) by much. (Some could, but these most likely had initial talent AND support to help them get better, as opposed to doing it all on their own.) YMMV, of course. And I don't mind people thinking I'm wrong, because I can't give you stats to back that up. Merely based on my experience teaching physical movement for 25 years, and shooting classes for 10 or so. I'll note that I'm toying with the idea of collecting the set of GM classifications, but....I just don't know if I care enough about Limited, Open, and OSR to bother. Once I get SS up 4% or so, I'll have all the rest. Don't know if I'll ever try for those three--my current classifications in those were made using a Production, CO, and ISR gun respectively. Point to that is...if you like shooting, and don't have any particular physical issues, you can definitely make M with practice. And probably GM, though that will probably require being able to practice using recoil management to help drive the gun from target to target, which will require a range. Again, YMMV. Feel free to ignore all of that.

Many people differ in opinion with you about that last sentence. (Not to mention that many people shot many of the stages using VERY different stage plans.) For other folks---at A3, the cart had fault lines on it that defined the shooting area on it. So it is a moot point.

^^Absolutely ALL of this. A stage can be legal but still a bad, boring, or stupid stage. One of the reasons I have shot Production, SS, PCC, and CO at various times is so that when I design stages, I remember to think about it from different points of view. When I started (only having shot Production) a couple of the local Open shooters would come by and vet my stages, and tell me about all the things I had missed from a hi-cap point of view. (Which was initially a lot.) Sure, everyone in [whatever] division has the same stage to shoot, and are "only" shooting against each other. That doesn't mean that a legal stage can't be dumb or not fun to shoot, especially when compared to someone else in a different division shooting it. People who design stages should (IMO) go past merely thinking "is this legal" and instead think "is this going to be fun to hi-cap pistol, lo-cap pistol, AND PCC to shoot?" Adding "and there are multiple ways to shoot it" is even better.

Given a choice, I don't want to start on Smoke & Hope, Roundabout, or Showdown. They are the fast stages, and I'm generally not at my fastest on my first stage of the day. (Also, if I shoot Smoke & Hope first, I tend to forget to aim enough on the next stage. ) I can start anywhere else, though I'd also PREFER not to start on Outer Limits. Out of all of them, I like starting on Accelerator most. Requires aim and trigger control, but not as much as Outer Limits, Pendulum, or 5 To Go.

Ah, I was wondering what happened. The problem is, at a Level 2 (and up) match, you aren't allowed to include stages that aren't official stages. As such, if the stage was wrong, it had to be tossed.

Congrats! I'm doing something similar. Currently about to start working on my Single Stack classification time, as I just finished up Production. (Okay, not "finished up" but "met my goal.") After that, I've got Open, Limited, and OSR left, and while I'm not sure I care enough about them to get those scores up there (I never shoot those divisions, other than to get classified to a certain minimum in the first place) NOT having them match the rest may also irk me enough to do it anyway. When I was working on getting classified in all 13 divisions, I found (to my extreme surprise) that shooting ISR in Steel Challenge is actually a ton of fun. I am NOT a revo person, but....in SC, it is a good time. Borrow someone's revo sometime---you will be surprised, I think. (Note: It is a LOT more fun with an eight-shot. Six shot, when you start out, is just frustratingly annoying. ) Again, congrats! Well done! --- L3232

1) I can think of several "serious" shooters that aren't certified ROs, and never pick up a timer or a tablet. (Including a number of M and GM shooters.) There's a lot of "if I'm running the timer/tablet, I won't do as well when I'm shooting" attitude. Some people aren't really interested in helping out the sport, merely themselves. 2) Sometimes, the local match situation isn't something you can change. If the MD and the match committee are all in lock-step about "the way it should be," volunteering isn't going to make much difference, and in some cases they won't even let a person help out. I do agree that MOST of the time, change CAN be made by helping out, getting certified, making sure people use the rulebook, and so on. But telling people to "get off your ass and be the solution" isn't really useful if you don't know the situation.

Why not?

That makes perfect sense to me.

Like I said, this is something you can easily look up on the USPSA website or app. 19-04 HHF, Carry Optics: 10.0767

The Ralston part is the mailing address, which is nowhere near the actual range. Latitude/longitude to the front gate of the range: 41.001888, -96.103791

In what division? They are different, based on the division. I'll note---no matter what, you can always go to the USPSA website, go to your classification record, then click on the little calculator-looking thing on the right. It is a classifier calculator, and you can use it for all classifiers and all divisions. Similarly, if you have the phone app, you can do the same.

I don't see this as an either/or situation. I do both---it depends on what I am practicing at that time. Note: This is how I practice, so feel free to ignore it. When I practice for SC, I normally (in one range session) only practice one stage, with MAYBE parts of a second stage (if there was something annoying me about it the last time I shot it). I start off by shooting it like at a match---five strings, going for match scores. (So all makeup shots, shooting at match speed.) Then I take a look at where I'm losing time, where I tend to have misses, and anything else I remember having difficulty with the last time I shot the stage. This gives me specifics of parts of the stage run I need to work on whether in terms of technique, speed, or whatever. I work on speed to first shot, the hardest transition, the most difficult 3-shot sequence, and the hardest shot on the stage. Occasionally I work on different plate order as my skills change, to see if things could be done differently. (For example, I currently shoot Roundabout VERY differently from when I was an C-through-A class shooter in centerfire divisions. As my skill levels changed, certain things became easier which meant I could do a more efficient stage order to save time.) I practice my stance, shifting my hips, and where I should center myself (on what plate). When I'm doing THOSE things, I don't worry about makeup shots. Then I go back and do a couple of strings like in a match, but without any makeup shots. Just working on getting the hits, but as fast as I can do so. Then I practice whatever I screwed up there. Then I do some more "let's push the speed now that we've practiced this" runs, without makeup shots. And lastly I go again and shoot the whole thing like I just came up to shoot the stage in a match--5 strings, makeup shots, etc, exactly like a match. So----sometimes I do makeup shots, because calling your shots and fixing misses quickly is important. Sometimes I don't, because I'm focusing on one particular aspect of a certain skill.

I do this also, and it works especially well because I prefer the stock to be very short. RickT, have you tried setting the stock shorter and having her grab the front of the stock under the barrel?

That's a function of the equipment, not the match level. So it pretty much completely depends on whether or not the host owns AMG Commander timers or not.

IDPA doesn't allow AIWB, and I don't personally think that IDPA tests carry skills or tactical skills. So, while I have on occasion used my carry gun in IDPA (it is my backup gun if my competition gun dies), since I can't use my actual carry method (neither my holsters nor my mag pouches are legal, even though the mag pouches USED to be legal), I don't see any reason to worry if I'm dressing like I normally do. IDPA isn't training (again, this is just my opinion, I don't see any need to yet again start up the "IDPA IS TACTICAL TRAINING!!!!11!!!" argument, so feel free to ignore my opinion) and is just another shooting game that's fun to play, so I use equipment that lets me play the game. For IDPA, that means an OWB holster with a decent gunbelt and a lightweight vest. (Along with some mag pouches.)

How dare people have fun differently! What are they thinking? Don't they realize that that if they attempt to have fun in a way in which we don't approve, we'll turn into whining complainers who talk about how they are awful and then we'll make fun of their guns!

I dunno---I've seen Manny Bragg do it several times in situations in which he thought it could save him time, and repeatedly succeed. I do agree that most people doing it end up screwing it up, or having it take more time anyway. It's legal, so it is all good.

As a comment, the switch for the laser on my PCC is where I can easily put my thumb on it. (The laser is literally made so it can be turned on and off easily and quickly.) As such, turning it on during a run isn't wasted time at all--it makes no difference to my time. And not having it on during the rest of the stage means fewer visual distractions while I'm shooting other things. To the OP: PCC folks can turn on/off lasers whenever they like. No rules against it.

Given that my local clubs didn't start using PS to track matches until later in 2014, and several clubs took longer than that, 349 makes sense for match count since 2014. Have no idea if that's actually correct, I'd have to check my own stats for that.

I personally think it is both fine, and also hilarious. Anyone with a heavy gun isn't going to put a weight on the front (if they do, all the better for the rest of us). Anyone with a light gun (example: G34) will probably find that adding a little extra weight to the front will actually be helpful, even when shooting minor. I'm thinking that for me personally, a TLR-1 on the front end will be just about the perfect amount of extra front-weight to help the dot settle faster without making an appreciable difference to large-angle transitions. And that people adding more weight to the front will find a point of diminishing returns. ....and that is something that people can do just fine. Is any of that going to make any substantive difference to match results? Not for the people who run out and find the heaviest thing they can hang off their gun, I'll bet. To people already shooting heavy guns? Only in a negative fashion. To people shooting light guns? Only if they 1) find the right weight to reduce recoil without slowing while also 2) actually practice with the different recoil impulse. Will THOSE people find an increase in accuracy at speed? Maybe..... I'll be interested to find out. I think that similar to a lot of changes that have occurred in the past that were roundly decried that ended up being no problem, and making no substantial difference other than to let more people shoot without them running into rule problems---this is going to do the same. Though we'll see some funny gun mods in while it all settles out.

Was the holstered gun in the appropriate condition for a gun in the holster? (if single-action, safety on, etc?) If so, no, not a DQ. Guy needs to pay more attention, and get their brain straightened out, but not a DQ. If the RO says "if finished, unload and show clear" and the person doesn't show clear but does something different, then they aren't done.

No argument there. I did say "if possible" after all. Another thing to try is to angle the stage in the bay slightly---the stage doesn't have to be parallel with the back berm, and if angling it slightly to the left means that the right-most plate on 5 To Go is no longer a problem, while still not being angled enough to be an issue on the left side, there's a possibility. I'll note you said that the initial situation wasn't a safety issue, just annoying for the other shooter. Hence my comment of "if possible" and the point about the fact that if the target isn't angled, it is going to make a substantive difference in stage times.