History Channel $100,000 Top Shot Competition

[smokshwn]

Then the ending was like David slaying Goliath.

Your logic is seriously flawed...Kelly is a world class Palma shooter, if you have to label David and Goliath when shooting precision rifles, Kelly would most assuredly be Goliath in the group.

As to picking on him, I didn't see anything close to bullying. Even if you interpreted it that way, can you possibly conceive that by picking and choosing through hundreds if not thousands of minutes of footage, almost any situation can be portrayed during post production.

I realize you posted that you don't know any of the personalities. JJ Racaza was the one who stated the smiley face was inappropriate. JJ is one of the most talented individuals in the world with a pistol, yet when you run into him at MacDonalds on the way to an Area match in the morning he greets you as if he was simply your neighbor not the guy who is going to put 50 points a stage on you. Might it be that JJ knows that even if you can shoot a smiley face, it doesn't always mean you should.

Edited June 9, 2010 by smokshwn

[Fullauto_Shooter]

I don't come much here since I only joined for reloading purposes years ago and didn't know who Mike or Kelly were before the show, so didn't have any preconceived ideas about them.

Watching the show I saw Mike and a few others as bullies who were picking on the skinny new kid for no reason other than he looked like an easy target. Picking him for elimination was outrageous, mean spirited, and the act of a bully. If there is anyone I think deserved a place to continue on that show, it was the kid, and if there I would have done everything in my power to make sure he got a chance to stay on as long as possible to enjoy and learn. Instead he was targeted to be kicked off immediately. I saw a bunch of arrogant men go from "I'm the best" in the beginning of the show to depressed whiners picking on an innocent kid because they lost one lousy competition. It was sad.

When Kelly shot that smiley face on the target I smiled too. When he told Red Group he shot it I laughed out loud. When the whiny bullies got upset about that and said he was too cocky I nearly fell on the floor laughing. It was great entertainment. Then the ending was like David slaying Goliath.

Since this was a highly edited TV show, what I saw was not everything that happened, but it is what was shown, what I saw and perceived, and probably what a lot of others saw and took home with it.

It gives the shooting community a bad name to show bullies picking on kids. Real or perceived, it looked really bad, and that's why I was happy to see Kelly stay and why I dislike everyone who was picking on him. I'm also disappointed I didn't see anyone stand up for him. He must have felt really alone in that cabin.

That you Kelly?

Funny, I didn't perceive anyone being a bully. The cockiest comment I heard was from the guy who said something to the effect "I'm gonna win so everyone else is shooting for second place".

Gotta remember, drama sells ads. If everyone were perfectly well-behaved, polite, and took responsibility for their mistakes and faults, it wouldn't be Reality TV.

[LChico]

I don't come much here since I only joined for reloading purposes years ago and didn't know who Mike or Kelly were before the show, so didn't have any preconceived ideas about them.

Watching the show I saw Mike and a few others as bullies who were picking on the skinny new kid for no reason other than he looked like an easy target. Picking him for elimination was outrageous, mean spirited, and the act of a bully. If there is anyone I think deserved a place to continue on that show, it was the kid, and if there I would have done everything in my power to make sure he got a chance to stay on as long as possible to enjoy and learn. Instead he was targeted to be kicked off immediately. I saw a bunch of arrogant men go from "I'm the best" in the beginning of the show to depressed whiners picking on an innocent kid because they lost one lousy competition. It was sad.

When Kelly shot that smiley face on the target I smiled too. When he told Red Group he shot it I laughed out loud. When the whiny bullies got upset about that and said he was too cocky I nearly fell on the floor laughing. It was great entertainment. Then the ending was like David slaying Goliath.

Since this was a highly edited TV show, what I saw was not everything that happened, but it is what was shown, what I saw and perceived, and probably what a lot of others saw and took home with it.

It gives the shooting community a bad name to show bullies picking on kids. Real or perceived, it looked really bad, and that's why I was happy to see Kelly stay and why I dislike everyone who was picking on him. I'm also disappointed I didn't see anyone stand up for him. He must have felt really alone in that cabin.

Wow - did we watch the same show?

I saw Mike say he wanted to go up against Kelly because "he was the best" with the rifle - I am not sure how that could be percieved as "outrageous, mean spirited, and the act of a bully."

I thought Kelly was a cocky young shooter with a lot of talent. But, in my eyes, that is not a negative statement. I've met a number of young teenaged shooters over the years (At that age, I would have described Chris Tilley, Max Michel, BJ Norris, Daniel Horner, and Blake Miguez the same way - knowing you are a great shooter can come off as cocky). It is only a failing if you cannot back it up. Clearly, Kelly can back it up.

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

[kevin c]

Might it be that JJ knows that even if you can shoot a smiley face, it doesn't always mean you should?

I can shoot a smiley face!!!

It's wall eyed, has a really bad case of acne, looks like it was punched in the mouth by a very large spike haired gentleman in studded leather, and was shot at a range of 6 feet, but it's a smilely face! -->

(actually, it was impressive to see, though I didnt catch the range.)

Edited June 9, 2010 by kevin c

[mikeseeklander]

I don't come much here since I only joined for reloading purposes years ago and didn't know who Mike or Kelly were before the show, so didn't have any preconceived ideas about them.

Watching the show I saw Mike and a few others as bullies who were picking on the skinny new kid for no reason other than he looked like an easy target. Picking him for elimination was outrageous, mean spirited, and the act of a bully. If there is anyone I think deserved a place to continue on that show, it was the kid, and if there I would have done everything in my power to make sure he got a chance to stay on as long as possible to enjoy and learn. Instead he was targeted to be kicked off immediately. I saw a bunch of arrogant men go from "I'm the best" in the beginning of the show to depressed whiners picking on an innocent kid because they lost one lousy competition. It was sad.

When Kelly shot that smiley face on the target I smiled too. When he told Red Group he shot it I laughed out loud. When the whiny bullies got upset about that and said he was too cocky I nearly fell on the floor laughing. It was great entertainment. Then the ending was like David slaying Goliath.

Since this was a highly edited TV show, what I saw was not everything that happened, but it is what was shown, what I saw and perceived, and probably what a lot of others saw and took home with it.

It gives the shooting community a bad name to show bullies picking on kids. Real or perceived, it looked really bad, and that's why I was happy to see Kelly stay and why I dislike everyone who was picking on him. I'm also disappointed I didn't see anyone stand up for him. He must have felt really alone in that cabin.

Bullies picking on kids? Kelly and I spent an entire day that day having fun with each other. I banded him with a USSA wristband and he pinned me with a champion pin after he whooped me. We had much respect for each other. As for the vote, see me other comments on the thread I started. When I decided to vote for him, I approached him on the balcony and told him why I was voting for him (because he was the best). I would have done it differently now. There was no bullies, and no one got picked on. You have very little knowledge of what ACTUALLY happens on a show other than what they edit in.

[Merlin Orr]

We (the viewers) only see what the shows editors wish us to see and think. Makes for good TV but does not represent what truly transpired......

I will guess that they (the editors) are pretty happy if they are seeing all of the polarization about (insert name) being wronged or (insert name) bullied or (insert whatever blah, blah, blah.)

Lots of good people on the show and I'll bet none of them really deserve being castigated by the viewers as we don't know the real story.

[Forestarius]

Sorry for calling you a bully if you weren't. It sure looked like it in the show and not just from you. It looked like a team upset when the kid got to stay. Not just in what was said but in the reaction of the others, it looked like a hostile environment for the kid.

I also think all the anti Andre talk is out of line. It looked like he was doing a good job having you bracket your shots around the target like any good and experienced spotter would. He is getting burned by association because he was your team mate and from what I've seen did nothing wrong.

Obviously those two Springfield's were not properly sighted-in so you definitely needed a spotter to help guide you on target. It looks like that's what worked for Iain and Tara, she guided him onto the target. That's probably not the right way to setup a rifle competition, but at least both rifles were badly off, not just the one.

I'll re-watch it with new eyes and see if I can still see the bullying I saw the first time.

[sturmruger]

I was happy to see some USPSA people made it on the show. Was really shocked to see Stoeger! I like the show and plan to DVR the whole series.

NW

River Falls WI

[Ben Stoeger]

I was happy to see some USPSA people made it on the show. Was really shocked to see Stoeger!

Wait what the hell? Why am I so shocking? hehe

[Ben Stoeger]

If anyone is curious about ratings, check this out:

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/06/08/sunday-cable-ratings-nascar-pocono-mtv-movie-awards-army-wives-breaking-bad-much-more/53498

It seems Top Shot got more viewers than Jersey Shore, but less than Army Wives. I would say we still have a long way to go.

[twodownzero]

JJ Racaza was the one who stated the smiley face was inappropriate. JJ is one of the most talented individuals in the world with a pistol, yet when you run into him at MacDonalds on the way to an Area match in the morning he greets you as if he was simply your neighbor not the guy who is going to put 50 points a stage on you. Might it be that JJ knows that even if you can shoot a smiley face, it doesn't always mean you should.

I'll 2nd this. JJ Racaza is a class act! I met him at Old Bridge in New Jersey and I had no idea he was anywhere near as talented as he was. I've shot with grand masters before, but obviously nobody on his level (let's face it...very few are).

I'm rooting for JJ because he's an amazing guy. He chatted with me on the squad, reset targets, pasted, etc., just like anyone else. People asked him for tips, I asked him about his sponsors (Montana Gold, Lapua, Limcat) and he was forthcoming and friendly.

If JJ tells you something, it's straight forward. From what I've seen, he's just that kinda guy. I can't wait to thank him if I ever see him again, for chatting with me at a level I and enjoying the sport just like I do.

[Jadeslade]

Some competition from Youtube-was sittin' in my in basket Top Shots everything else was good-new Dave Sevigny, new Singlestack and some others.

[Nemo]

I don't care how he shoots... I dislike Kelly because he's young, skinny and has hair.

Ain't that what reality tv is supposed to do to me?

[Forestarius]

I just finished re-watching the episode on Hulu. That was great for the close-ups and ability to stop and rewind.

The first thing I noticed was Andre and Mike left the Front Sight Cover on the Springfield rifle. That will block some of your vision of the target and limit your precision in some circumstances. I don't know if Tara or Iain took their cover off, someone else took it off the day before during the practice, or if it was lost long ago. Not having it there was an advantage for Tara and Iain. If they took the cover off it was a fair advantage. But if the shooting competition started with their cover off and the other on, then the rifles were unequal at the start and Andre and Mike were at a disadvantage. Of course if either had been familiar with the rifle they could have taken it off in about one second. This is a competition not a training camp, so unfamiliarity with a weapon is not a valid excuse if the rifles are equal. Tara could have easy taken it off at the start herself, thus making her the smartest shooter there.

My next observation was there was no indication as to what type of weapon or type of competition would be used in the elimination round. It looked like Brad, Bill and Mike picked Kelly without knowing it would be a rifle challenge and it could have easily been pistols, tomahawks, or even arm wrestling, almost guaranteeing Kelly would lose. Perhaps that's where my perception of these guys being bullies started. If they had known it was going to be a rifle challenge and that Kelly was a master of the rifle, then picking him was a guaranteed way of eliminating Mike.

I still think putting Kelly into the elimination round was picking on him, even if it was known it was going to be a rifle competition where he would excel and eject Mike. Why was it the kids job to kick Mike out? What an uncomfortable and unpopular position to put him in.

If it was not known ahead of time it would be a rifle competition, then it was simply a way to eliminate the kid and keep the favorite, Mike. Picking an innocent kid to take the fall is not an act of a man, but of something lesser.

I don't like the way things went down. It makes me uncomfortable. All this because a couple of rifles weren't sighted-in.

[Shawn Knight]

Looked like a regular front sight to me...

[Flexmoney]

Why is he being called a kid?

I'd been to a war and back by his age.

He is a grown man. He can eat, f*#k, drink, vote, piss his name in the snow... and shoot a rifle like nobody's business. Plus, he is one of 16 that made it onto the show to compete.

And, why is Mike the "old man"...at 38yrs ? Come on... TGO is still the guy to beat at most anything shooting, and he is what...39 ?

[spanky]

Why is he being called a kid?

I'd been to a war and back by his age.

He is a grown man. He can eat, f*#k, drink, vote, piss his name in the snow... and shoot a rifle like nobody's business. Plus, he is one of 16 that made it onto the show to compete.

And, why is Mike the "old man"...at 38yrs ? Come on... TGO is still the guy to beat at most anything shooting, and he is what...39 ?

[Graham Smith]

Sorry for calling you a bully if you weren't. It sure looked like it in the show and not just from you. It looked like a team upset when the kid got to stay. Not just in what was said but in the reaction of the others, it looked like a hostile environment for the kid.

At the risk of repeating myself, people are falling into the trap of believing that what they watched was reality - it wasn't. It was edited to produce what the Producers wanted you to see. I don't know how many hours of tape were gone through to produce the 45 minutes you saw, but it was NOT balanced. It was purposely stilted to "enhance" the drama. Also remember that the final editing was done AFTER the entire competition was over. I'm willing to bet that I could have taken those same hours of tape and changed the entire "story". And I'm also willing to bet that if you think about it, you'll see that another "goat" was being set up in this episode.

[M ammo]

Why is he being called a kid?

I'd been to a war and back by his age.

He is a grown man. He can eat, f*#k, drink, vote, piss his name in the snow... and shoot a rifle like nobody's business. Plus, he is one of 16 that made it onto the show to compete.

And, why is Mike the "old man"...at 38yrs ? Come on... TGO is still the guy to beat at most anything shooting, and he is what...39 ?

38 yrs old man!!!!!! ya that's funny now in hind sight,,, I was still in the Army when I was 38,,, and at 38 I could bring it on,,, now that I'm a little older,, I'm just happy to show up,, I'm sure in a few more years, I'll figure,,,If I show up, I'VE WON!

Jim M ammo

[Sandro]

I was happy to see some USPSA people made it on the show. Was really shocked to see Stoeger!

Wait what the hell? Why am I so shocking? hehe

I want to see the seeing without seeing shot by Blake in the next episode. In fact I think there is a You Tube video of Blake shooting a plate rack without looking at it. LOL... As for the show, I want to see Kelly and either JJ or Blake on finals...

[Jake Di Vita]

Picking an innocent kid to take the fall is not an act of a man, but of something lesser.

You obviously don't know Mike Seeklander (did you even read his post in this thread?) I don't even know him well, but "less than a man" is something I'd never say about him.

[jkatz44]

I was happy to see some USPSA people made it on the show. Was really shocked to see Stoeger!

Wait what the hell? Why am I so shocking? hehe

I want to see the seeing without seeing shot by Blake in the next episode. In fact I think there is a You Tube video of Blake shooting a plate rack without looking at it. LOL... As for the show, I want to see Kelly and either JJ or Blake on finals...

[Ahab]

Kelly gets called a kid on the show for the same reason I do - he looks young. I'm 28 and I look a lot younger, Kelly has the same blessing/curse!

[Corey]

Kelly gets called a kid on the show for the same reason I do - he looks young. I'm 28 and I look a lot younger, Kelly has the same blessing/curse!

i feel your pain, haha.

[BamBam]

To be clear, no one knew what the challenge would be when voting for people to go to elimination. That is true.

BUT - it was our first ever challenge/elimination and we all THOUGHT it was still going to be rifles (why wouldn't we??). Mike really was thinking he would go up against Kelly in a rifle contest of some sort. We all did. I was thinking the elimination would be with one of the 4 rifles we used in the challenge. From a reality show stance, that made the most sense to me. We were in the dark and taking our best guesses (by design). But it was a very reasonable assumption that rifles would be the elimination event.

NOW - we know that they can change to a new weapon for elimination, and it makes the nomination of people for a head-to-head challenge very risky, both for the individuals and for the team. It is kind of cool !

Mike picking Kelly was something Mike really wanted to do, but you can also see from the footage that Kelly didn't want this situation at all. Kelly thought it was a bad/risky thing to go to elimination for any reason, and yeah he was very upset by it. But he had lots of friends in the house, especially Frank. No real hard feelings, and Kelly is great with Mike to this day.