History Channel $100,000 Top Shot Competition

[Loves2Shoot]

You did a great job representing yourself and action pistol shooters. Hopefully you guys at USSA will get a boost in interest now that you are a TV star and all

[pjb45]

I thought Kelly was a good kid. I did notice one comment from the elimination determination shoot where one shooter thought Kelly was lean on experience and question his ability to contribute. At least that is my understanding. The kid was cool calm and collected. He brings that confidence to the table every time.

Mike, as usual, was a typical Marine, he stepped up the plate and acknowledged his responsibility. I admire him greatly.

I thought his spotter was worthless! In a sniper team the spotter is usually the more experienced shooter. Mike's spotter was not. He did not even know how to give directions to get Mike on target. The funny thing is I shoot frequently with a 79+ year retired Sgt Major who was on the AMU. He talks about team work that existed in the AMU. Your teammate is there to help/coach etc. An experienced spotter/shooter could have provided Mike with more direction. Too bad they lost a great guy.

My dad gave me a 1903A3 when I was a young teenager. I still have it. And ammo he loaded from the 1960s. It is a wonderful gun but it ain't no JP!

[Bwana Six-Gun]

A'ight... Cool Flex... My post closed in the TV/Movie forum because I hadn't seen this thread before. But it's a TV show!

Just messin' with you, chief

Anyway, since I'm so behind in this, Heatseeker's gone , JJ and Blake still there. What are the first names of the other active USPSA shooters in the show and which are BE'ers? I'm rootin' for you folks.

I still don't like Kelly, don't care what Re says. Hope he gets his ass handed to him in a plate of humble pie when there is no rifle to draw smiley faces with.

See what you've done to me History Channel? Just one episode and I'm already talkin' like a survivor geek.

Hey guys, Kelly is a smart young man. I think he is extremely confident, and maybe that comes across as cocky. How many of you good shooters are not a bit cocky yourself? He is a good kid with some serious skills with a rifle.

+10

[smokshwn]

Mike, as usual, was a typical Marine, he stepped up the plate and acknowledged his responsibility. I admire him greatly.

Andre, must be a very atypical Marine cuz when he was asked about his job as a spotter the only action he could muster was to push Mike under the bus.

[lugnut]

I just read Mike's website on this and loved reading it. I think like Mike, I too seem to have to work hard at everything I do even just to get to "decent". Mike- I've been reading some books on mental preparation in sports and I loved your comment: "I refuse to be scared of failure." It's a motivating read- thanks.

One other thing totally unrelated to the show. Your website. I have no idea what's going on but after I've been reading it for a while everything else looks like it has lines in it for a minute or so- honest to God.. it freaked me out a bit until I figured out what it was. Weird.

[Jeff686]

Just saw the preview for the next episode:

"Ben, look at me" Looks like people are going see how good some of these action pistol shooters are

I was a little torqued when, during the last commercial break, they showed the preview of the next episode. I saw Kelly! Spoiler!!! It ruined the rest of the show. I'm going to be sure to TIVO more carefully next time.

[Howard762]

I agree that the important aspect of this show is that non-gunners will like it. I had it on at the bar I own and the customers, most of whom are not shooters watched it intently and said they liked it. They were impressed that I know some of the guys, and especially that Adam Benson aka BAM BAM is from our neck of the woods.

I told them I knew Mike Seeklander, though not so much personally as by reputation and shooting against him, and that I believed there was something wrong with that Springfield. After reading his website I see that I was right. I had predicted him as one of the 2 guys I thought could win. Adam is the other. Adam's a goofball but he's pretty good with everything, and he knows how a reality show works.

Mike S. is a great ambassador for our sport, and in losing he has set an example for all of us. He knows he got the bad end of the stick but he took it like a man.

[Nemo]

I thought his (Mike's) spotter was worthless! In a sniper team the spotter is usually the more experienced shooter. Mike's spotter was not. He did not even know how to give directions to get Mike on target.

Agreed. I have him in the same list as Kelly.

[Olav A]

One other thing totally unrelated to the show. Your website. I have no idea what's going on but after I've been reading it for a while everything else looks like it has lines in it for a minute or so- honest to God.. it freaked me out a bit until I figured out what it was. Weird.

I found the same thing happened to me too.

I guess Andre got a lucky shot at 50 yards and passed the rifle off after his hit. Wasn't much team work between the two.

[BamBam]

Its physical, its mental, its strategic, and it even has a social element with all of us having to live together under the same roof. And you have to deliver precision shooting skills with unfamiliar weapons (and VERY little practice) on demand with a bunch of people watching... your friends/peers, a 50 person camera/sound crew, and about a million people at home. Its tougher than it looks!!

I would have liked to have seen more of the 'practice' session (which could hardly be called that) to help explain the mess at the first big challenge. Blue team practiced after Red, and it was way late in the day firing into a low setting sun. Sights were not blackened and there was terrible glare. Targets were not changed between shooters. There was no time or ammo to adjust sights. At best we can get on paper and determine offset hold-over for challenge day. In the first practice position, Chris and I each shot 5 rounds from the Nagant (note gun was shooting 12" high at 100yrds, and maybe 1-2" right) then we both moved over to the M14. We had just a few minutes left to shoot 4 rounds each at a target that was already riddled with holes from the previous shooting pair. We got a few shots on paper and determined that the M14 was dead-on for windage, and shooting 6" high at 100yds. Did anyone mention spotting scopes were the cheapest Barska-quality units available??

I don't know about sights suddenly coming loose... these guns were a hundred years old. The 03 Springfield had both a ladder sight and a battle sight. And remember Andre did hit the 50 yard target just seconds earlier and how much different impact could there be from 50 yds to 100 yds? It was windy, but at 100 yds wind is not a sizeable factor. The exploding bullseyes were 12" diameter at both distances, as I recall.

I can tell you that Iain for team Blue also had a bunch of trouble with the Springfield at 100 yds taking 15+ shots. And his spotter (Tara) had trouble too. When Iain didn't hit in the first few shots, and had nothing to use from the spotter, he stayed calm and shot a quadrant pattern around the target until Tara got scope on target. Iain is a serious dude (ex British military, some kind of recon guy, possible MI-6 and/or 007 ! Ha!!).

One important thing to note - this was the first episode and we did not know exactly how it was going to play out. Who knew the elimination challenge would break out an entirely new weapon!? I thought for sure it would be an elimination using one of those 4 historical rifles. Once they start breaking out brand new weapons for the elimination, the game opens a new chapter. What if the surprise elimination challenge weapon turned out to be pistols?? We just didn't know!! But I still think Mike should have picked Andre. They were the only two that actually shot for team Red, and it would have put some closure on the whole shooter/spotter responsibility debate during the challenge. If Mike had won, then Red team would still have Mike going into the Episode #2 Beretta pistol event... which would seem like a solid move if you ask me. The TEAM needs to win or you face possible elimination again.

NOTE - in the last meeting with the production company right before the show started, we were given real good advice. This isn't going to be like any other competition we ever shot, and it WOULD test our skills. But they (production) designed the rules and the challenges, they know what they are doing, and they are what they are. THIS is the game.

[Ahab]

For those that asked, the remaining currently active USPSA/IDPA guys on the show are:

Caleb Giddings (me)

Blake Miguez

JJ Racaza

Adam Benson

Denny Chapman (He gets in because he's a cowboy, on a steeeeel horse he riiiiides)

Also, on my weekly podcast Gun Nuts Radio I'm having a Top Shot Q&A tonight at 9pm Eastern time. If you've got questions about the show, join me tonight live by calling in a 347-539-5436 and listening to the live streaming broadcast at www.blogtalkradio.com/gunnuts. We'll talk about last week's episode, the upcoming episode, and whatever else you have questions about (as long as it's within the scope of my NDA ) so check it out if you've got the time tonight at 9pm Eastern.

[Corey]

i personally think its kinda cool we get some first person perspective from the contestants themselves. most show on tv you dont get their direct input, but only what the networks edit in. maybe a reunion show of some sort, but again it only shows what they want it to show. I like the "direct" connection here

[kurtm]

Everyone is blaming the spotter, but if the sight was loose it wouldn't matter what he said. If the sight wasn't loose ( And we know it was since Mike said it was) in 37 rounds or much less the target would have been hit. I did hear the spotter say he took responsability also cause they were a team, but Mike was the guy behind the rifle.

Well let's take it from his perspective, he isn't a well known shooter, everyone is sticking up for Mike even after 37 rounds, and he can see them tring to level blame...just like he said, Mike may be the best shooter in the world, but I don't know him and he couldn't hit a 100 yard target, I hit my target, and now they want to blanme me. Well I think anyone of us would be a bit defensive under those conditions.

Second of all his being worthless is being way too harsh. The impact area was full of brush and a breeze was blowing, If the bullets weren't hitting paper it would have been damn hard to call any type of hit. I can hear it now, some of you seem to think you could have made the call...your bullet hit 5" to the upper left of the target 12' behind the fully leafed tree neer the spotted turttle that is invisible because of the tree standing 12' in front of the impact that the target is in front of. I read on another forum that he should have called the vapor trail...well it is DRY in California and it was only 100 yards away...no trail to view! I know from his perspective HE was getting blamed for it all, so I can see his reaction.

Now Kelly is getting gigged for being "cocky"??? Who here can remember what it feels like to be real excited and nervous. He was at home behind the rifle and knows he can shoot it. Why not do a little head gaming by shooting a Smilely face. He knew he was in his element. I guess you all forgot what is like to young and good! Also after being voted off right away without even doing anything wrong, I am sure that after he got to shoot the precision rifle he was doing a bit of See??? I CAN do this stuff!!!

Last thought. Mike, in most actuallity, got hosed! Now it just happened to be Mike cause he chose the "doctored rifle". I "feel" one of those 8 rifles was screwed with cause you can't have drama without....well...drama, and what better way than to have team mates turn on each other?

[Ahab]

Corey, just wait until next week's episode with the Berettas. Things are only going to keep getting better from here!

Edit: Also, Adam is 100% correct. We really had no idea what to expect on that first competition, so a lot of the strategy elements of how to win as a team weren't yet in place. Blue Team's plan was to stick with the pairings that had the best luck in our "practice" session. That's why Jim and JJ did the rope, Tara and Iain did the wire, Adam and Chris did the puddle (GROSS) and Blake and I did the thicket. Not because of the obstacles, but because at the end of those obstacles were the rifles we were the "most" familiar with.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Ahab

[sigfla]

Kurt hit the nail on the head. Either the spotter had trouble or the gun had a loose sight, which one is it? A spotters input is nice but a 12 inch circle at 100 is no major challenge.

At 100 yds spotter or no assuming the gun was remotely sighted in he should have hit the target in 30+ shots. The only logical explanation after hearing the target description was a gun/sight issue as Mike alluded to. I am stil unclear on whether or not the guns were sighted in during the practice session? From what you guys are saying here it sounds like they were not. I can tell you now that if this show is gonna have weapons that are just pulled off a shelf and not sighted or looked over I will stop watching. That has nothing to do with being a top shot and has more to do with luck. If the premise of the challenge was to see how the teams can work together using poor equipment then don't call the show Top Shots.

In hindsight the blue and red teams should have been told they could use a specific weapon per each 2 man group and stay with it. Then each shooting team could have sighted in and got familiar with their rifle of choice thus allowing the show to make the challenge harder and more interesting.

I have a suspicion that Kelly is gonna get bumped next show. If you watch the shooter profiles on the web site you can see Mike only has some stock footage and the first challenge. Kelly has stock footage and the Beretta. Each shooter has varying levels of footage with new weapons some with far less that others. JJ has a good bit of footage shooting many other weapons. Didn't watch Blake but I am gonna guess he has some film shooting other weapons also.

Edited June 8, 2010 by sigfla

[moverfive]

Sounds like the show's producers have done their job quite well.....

.....assuming that Mike's rifle had issues, then feedback from the spotter would have been useless. And adding to that, if Mike wasn't even hitting the particular target and/or hitting erratically, there isn't much a spotter can do for him. But yet the discussion centers around whose responsible for the loss - Mike and Andre? If we believe Mike, then neither guy is the correct answer. And the way the show was done - Mike was made out to be the "better" shooter but yet couldn't hit a target. Remember how they immediately showed where Mike was taking charge of the team then remember how Andre made the comment about how 'Mike was saying how good he was and thus he would shoot the longer target.' I am sure those sections and comments were shown for the purpose to get everyone talking.....and they obviously succeeded. But in reality, if we believe Mike, then neither guy did anything wrong.

And then you have Kelly. Now that most have seen what this guy can do with long-range shooting, his skills are unquestionable in that area. However, until the end of the show, we really didn't know how good he is. So everything up until the last part of the show made him to look 'cocky' or even trying to show up Mike (with the smiley face and JJ's comments). The problem here is - everything in the first show was this guy's strength and expertise, so he was simply talking like an expert and one having true knowledge of long-range shooting. What he did, especially with the smiley face, is no different than Blake's infamous trick where he can shoot a plate rack without looking (which it appears we will see in the next episode). He was simply having fun and taking his skills to the next level. And given what Blake is going to show (and what JJ could probably similarly show), I don't think anyone that knows JJ or Blake would ever call them 'cocky' or 'showing someone up' if they are simply displaying their unique skills in a fun, practice environment.

Bottom line - the producers have done their job quite well in setting the stage for viewers to take sides, argue, and choose their favorite shooter. And in my opinion, all of these discussions are for the wrong reason. If Mike's gun was 'broken,' then unfortunately for Mike it sucked to be him that day. And things for Mike went from bad to worse when he decided to shoot against one of the best long-range shooters in the world, thus making a tactically bad decision. End of story.

[TMC]

For those that asked, the remaining currently active USPSA/IDPA guys on the show are:

Caleb Giddings (me)

Blake Miguez

JJ Racaza

Adam Benson

Denny Chapman (He gets in because he's a cowboy, on a steeeeel horse he riiiiides)

What happened to Brad?

Did I miss something? Last night was the first episode right?

[Ahab]

No, he's still on I just forgot. I was sitting there typing and I was thinking "I know I'm missing someone but dammit" and now I remember it's Brad.

He's still in the running!

[rtr]

For those that were on the show, has the winner already received their check, or do they receive it once the series has aired (like Survivor does)?

Where was the series filmed?

How long did the actual filming take?

Did you laugh too when you found out the host was Colby from Survivor?

[Jeff686]

Sounds like the show's producers have done their job quite well.....

..snip..

Bottom line - the producers have done their job quite well in setting the stage for viewers to take sides, argue, and choose their favorite shooter. ...snip...

Seriously! Let's all remember that controversy and conflict are the bread'n'butter of reality TV.

[Ahab]

For those that were on the show, has the winner already received their check, or do they receive it once the series has aired (like Survivor does)?

Where was the series filmed?

How long did the actual filming take?

Did you laugh too when you found out the host was Colby from Survivor?

Q1: That's confidential

Q2: Two different locations in Southern California, a ranch/house where we lived and another location for the actual shooting of stuff.

Q3: When Colby says "30 days" in the premiere, he's not kidding.

Q4: I had no idea who he was, honestly. I had to get BamBam to tell me.

[want2race]

I just saw the first episode from the re-air last night. I liked it. Beautiful house they stayed in. I applied, just missed the final selection round. I'll re-apply for the next show if they have one. It looks like a blast. I watch survivor still so I don't care if it has a "survivorish" flavor to it.

The kid gets ribbed for his smiley face, but no one is dogging Blake yet for the preview shot (no look shot)? Hey it's all fun and games anyway. I watched a lot of the audition tapes and there are a TON of people I'm glad that didn't make it. There are some pretty funny ones, painfull ones to watch on youtube. I think they picked a great cast.

[mikeseeklander]

I just read Mike's website on this and loved reading it. I think like Mike, I too seem to have to work hard at everything I do even just to get to "decent". Mike- I've been reading some books on mental preparation in sports and I loved your comment: "I refuse to be scared of failure." It's a motivating read- thanks.

One other thing totally unrelated to the show. Your website. I have no idea what's going on but after I've been reading it for a while everything else looks like it has lines in it for a minute or so- honest to God.. it freaked me out a bit until I figured out what it was. Weird.

Weird? Maybe my web implanted jedi mind tricks to get you to see lines are working......success. (sorry about that, I will check my site!)

[Forestarius]

I don't come much here since I only joined for reloading purposes years ago and didn't know who Mike or Kelly were before the show, so didn't have any preconceived ideas about them.

Watching the show I saw Mike and a few others as bullies who were picking on the skinny new kid for no reason other than he looked like an easy target. Picking him for elimination was outrageous, mean spirited, and the act of a bully. If there is anyone I think deserved a place to continue on that show, it was the kid, and if there I would have done everything in my power to make sure he got a chance to stay on as long as possible to enjoy and learn. Instead he was targeted to be kicked off immediately. I saw a bunch of arrogant men go from "I'm the best" in the beginning of the show to depressed whiners picking on an innocent kid because they lost one lousy competition. It was sad.

When Kelly shot that smiley face on the target I smiled too. When he told Red Group he shot it I laughed out loud. When the whiny bullies got upset about that and said he was too cocky I nearly fell on the floor laughing. It was great entertainment. Then the ending was like David slaying Goliath.

Since this was a highly edited TV show, what I saw was not everything that happened, but it is what was shown, what I saw and perceived, and probably what a lot of others saw and took home with it.

It gives the shooting community a bad name to show bullies picking on kids. Real or perceived, it looked really bad, and that's why I was happy to see Kelly stay and why I dislike everyone who was picking on him. I'm also disappointed I didn't see anyone stand up for him. He must have felt really alone in that cabin.

[kevin c]

I heard Mike pick Kelly, but I didn't hear him picking ON Kelly. I heard him say he wanted to shoot against the best, and, in the elimination, Kelly proved the better long distance shot, backing up what some heard as braggadocio earlier on. I saw no depressed whining, just disappointment.

What some hear as pluck other hear as arrogance. Heck, you have to have confidence to go on this show (they did want "big personalities"), and to some that will come across as arrogance.

Cuts both ways. But really, since it's all about the eyeballs tuning in Sunday nights, maybe the editors create the tension and personalities, or maybe all or some of it is really there. Through the magic of editing, it's hard to tell from just viewing the final product. They want the audience to root for some and hiss at others (who remembers the nude rude dude of alternate sexual preference from the very first Survivor? - the perfect character (and that is a lot of what it is) folks loved to hate. Gotta figure the producers don't want to mess with the winning formula.