Switching from Fiber Optic to Irons

[Walküre]

I reckon the difference is I use the dot as a reference, but I still use the front post to aim.

Yep, same here. Which is why I run the smallest FO I can - 0.04" on my CZs and a Brazos MicroDot (a recessed 0.04") on my 1911. I just want something there to maintain my focus on the front sight. I still use the actual front sight for proper alignment.

[Seth]

I maintain my front sight focus by deciding I want to. If I get sloppy, my shots suffer. But dumping the fiber was one of the smarter moves I've made. Its what I need to see.

[benos]

I guess I just like the little red dot up there on mine. The bouncing red dot in recoil commands my focus and keeps me from looking at the target. I watch the front sight more instead of just indexing and pulling the trigger. I have no issues properly lining the front sight post square with the top of the rear blade.

That is the correct way to see with a fiber optic. But I never had the disiplice to consistently do that. So in the end I shot consistently better with flat black sights.

be

[fastarget]

After reading this thread intently, I went into the garage and trimmed a bit of the fiberoptic and colored a third of it , then half of it with a sharpie.............

What I am noticing dry firing now is that I can align the top of the sights quicker for type 5 shot, and with the bright red mostly gone, it is more comfortable or put another way, I can hard focus on the top of that front sight easier (if that makes any sense).

It is interesting that I also noticed, that 3 different guns had slightly different size optic mushrooms where I cut and heated the rod that made the front sight look differently sized.

[TRev1911]

In a class Travis Tomasie stated that he preferred a black front iorn sight to help with accuracy - you have to really focus hard and find the sight picture. He felt the difference in speed was insignificant. Basically it seems that the black front post keeps you from getting lazy in establishing the proper front sight picture.

[twodownzero]

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who likes black sights. I have a FO on my limited and production guns and all black on my single stack. I'm really going to try to give the FO a chance this summer in limited, but if it doesn't work out, I'm going to put all black sights on everything.

[el pres]

After reading this thread intently, I went into the garage and trimmed a bit of the fiberoptic and colored a third of it , then half of it with a sharpie.............

What I am noticing dry firing now is that I can align the top of the sights quicker for type 5 shot, and with the bright red mostly gone, it is more comfortable or put another way, I can hard focus on the top of that front sight easier (if that makes any sense).

It is interesting that I also noticed, that 3 different guns had slightly different size optic mushrooms where I cut and heated the rod that made the front sight look differently sized.

Welcome to the club, there's no going back now. Theres just so much more to see without that fiber getting in the way ..

In a class Travis Tomasie stated that he preferred a black front iorn sight to help with accuracy - you have to really focus hard and find the sight picture. He felt the difference in speed was insignificant. Basically it seems that the black front post keeps you from getting lazy in establishing the proper front sight picture.

Thats pretty much dead on with my expirience. If you have the discipline to ignore the bouncing dot and just use it to find the front sight then great, enjoy the fiber. But if your like me you just end up cheating your sight picture with visual laziness.

The only place I see the fiber as a real time advantage is if you had a bunch of targets at say 3 yards and you just hosed them with the dot. However the more you shoot straight irons the easier this gets as well...

[kgunz11]

At 3 yards, I'm just indexing on the target. I probably should be using the front sight all the time but at distances so short I don't.

[ck1]

I recently switched to shooting plain all-black irons (based partly on info in this thread actually). I've experienced a huge improvement in my overall accuracy and don't think I've lost much if anything speed-wise as others have described...

For me, the difference is that while it's no argument which is faster to acquire (FO's), they also seem to "dazzle" your eyes/brain in a way that the irons just don't... In my case, instead of settling for seeing the glowing dot in the notch and pulling the trigger like I had grown accustomed to, now my eyes are actually measuring whether or not the light bars are equal and if the top of the front post is even with the top of the rear before I break the shot (all in fractions of a second). Casually one might think the plain jane irons just won't appear clear, I've found the opposite to be true, seems I see the serrations on the front blade every single time...

[kamicosmos]

Very informative thread!

I am actually preparing to go Limited this month, using a FO front sighted CZ SP01. The transition to the SP was pretty easy, I was shooting a CZ75B. The FO sight however, is all new to me. I will keep some of these tips in mind. I was already falling into the 'It's just like a red dot!' mindset trap, so I will make sure in my dry fire practice that I am actually verifying my sight picture and calling my shots as I should be.

[jamautry]

During the Space City Challenge last month my FO fell out of my front sight during the first stage of the match. Through out the day I saw the front sight clearer than I have in a long time and as a result was very accurate. I am kicking around the idea of switching to an all iron front sight. In the meantime one short term solution I thought of is to replace the colored FO with black. I had a link to a manufacture that made all different colors of FO including black but seem to have lost it. Does anyone have a link they would care to share?

[m469699]

Glad I happened on this thread. I have been out of shooting for about 10 years and wanted to start back up with a Glock. I was going to add a FO fs, since that seems to be the thing to do nowadays, but think I'll hold off now and "sharpie" the white on the stock Glock sights...

I used to have a .100 fs w/ Bomar rears on my .45s. May have to take a file to my plastic Glock fs.

Anybody have suggestions for a good set of replacement sights for a G17? I'd like a skinny fs like my old .45.

I have to use bifocals to read now and my sights are blurry w/o the upper part of my glasses.

[kgunz11]

Glad I happened on this thread. I have been out of shooting for about 10 years and wanted to start back up with a Glock. I was going to add a FO fs, since that seems to be the thing to do nowadays, but think I'll hold off now and "sharpie" the white on the stock Glock sights...

I used to have a .100 fs w/ Bomar rears on my .45s. May have to take a file to my plastic Glock fs.

Anybody have suggestions for a good set of replacement sights for a G17? I'd like a skinny fs like my old .45.

I have to use bifocals to read now and my sights are blurry w/o the upper part of my glasses.

Go to a local to you GSSF match. There will be plenty of Glock sights at one of those matches for you to get a feel of the different options. That way you can see them and know what width and height you want to purchase. It would also allow you to see the difference sight pictures between a solid front and a fiber front.

[Corey]

this was an interesting thread. Im still using stock fixed sights on my gun (white dots front and back). thinking taking a sharpie and blacking out the backs and maybe the front as well to see some difference if any.

My prediciton: You will shoot just as quickly and more accurately if you get rid of the white.

be

correct as usual! Shot my first match with blacked out sights and didnt feel like i lost anything on speed, maybe even gained a bit. Accuracy was much better, at least on steel targets. Shot them MUCH better than I have been. whether it was the sights, or my practicing i dont care. felt good to shoot 6 clean shots and have 6 poppers go tumbling down.

[el pres]

During the Space City Challenge last month my FO fell out of my front sight during the first stage of the match. Through out the day I saw the front sight clearer than I have in a long time and as a result was very accurate. I am kicking around the idea of switching to an all iron front sight. In the meantime one short term solution I thought of is to replace the colored FO with black. I had a link to a manufacture that made all different colors of FO including black but seem to have lost it. Does anyone have a link they would care to share?

See post #30

[martine4161]

Actually fibre material gives you best output but at the same time it is because of the extra assistance from the gun itself. So in this case you can gain the accuracy for shooting. So basically you have got the experience thats why you should now use the Irons and that is good for the target pointing.

[jamautry]

I just returned from shooting 2 of my M&Ps, one with a FO and the other with a plain front post. After running a series of drills I noticed the times were the same but it was much easier to shoot accurately with the plain iron sighted M&P. As a bonus I was also much more aware while shooting and because of it made a couple of observations in my shooting that I had not seen before. I feel the reason is the bouncing dot was over powering all the other visual inputs and my eyes would just stay fixated on it bouncing up and down. I think I will run the plain iron sighted M&P this weekend at Area 4.

[bkeeler]

During the Space City Challenge last month my FO fell out of my front sight during the first stage of the match. Through out the day I saw the front sight clearer than I have in a long time and as a result was very accurate. I am kicking around the idea of switching to an all iron front sight. In the meantime one short term solution I thought of is to replace the colored FO with black. I had a link to a manufacture that made all different colors of FO including black but seem to have lost it. Does anyone have a link they would care to share?

Just take what ever color you have and use a black sharpie marker and color it then install the F/O. This is what I do to dull the F/O down( I color the F/O just up to the bulb end) so I can see the F/O but it is dim which allows me to see the top of the front sight blade. YMMV

[Walküre]

Well, I'm a convert now as well.

Started trending towards black for the Buckeye challenge a few weeks back - ran a blacked-out fiber until the afternoon, when the fiber was dislogded, so I just ran it with the hole (which doesn't particuarly work well). Got my Limited gun properly set up with a black iron front this weekend, and used it in an informal bowling pin match tonight. Absolutely golden; fast sight acquisition with crisp picture and everything on-target. Going to be converting my Production gun (another CZ) over right away.

To me, two things really make it work:

- The front needs to be thin. Trying to work with a thick, stubby black front sucks in comparison. Having a tall, thin front seems to aid in rapid acquisition.

- Serrations are a must. Not only for cutting glare, but for helping maintain focus as well. Crisp serrations (I did 30LPI on mine) just make the front sight really "pop".

I am still torn on whether or not to switch over my SStk gun, though. The MicroDot/10-8 combo has proved itself very capable thus far.

[ck1]

Got my first "Most Accurate" and finished 7th overall shooting my first IDPA match in a while the other day. This was my first match ever shooting the all-black irons, pretty sure I remember seeing my sight picture on every trigger-pull, I'm sold on 'em.

[ger]

boy this has been a ride for me as well,

got my first limited gun and it had fiber optic, felt it was taking away from my accuracy as well. Blacked it out and things seemed better but have recently gone back to trying it.

I also have a microdot on mine and I have come to believe that at least for me(at this moment in time) it is the best of both worlds, the fiber is small and the black sight blade above it can still be made sharp to focus when needed. But I also think that continued experimenting along with maturing in the shooting game can change it all again..

[jmorris]

I use fiber but mill the rear sight blade so it is shallow this makes the top “correct” or the dot is not there. Most seem pretty deep allowing for a lot of vertical movement and it’s “still there”.

[lugnut]

Got my first "Most Accurate" and finished 7th overall shooting my first IDPA match in a while the other day. This was my first match ever shooting the all-black irons, pretty sure I remember seeing my sight picture on every trigger-pull, I'm sold on 'em.

No light stages with a flashlight are going to be just fine- as well as regular light stages. Dim light with no flashlight... that really sucks. I hope your indexing is good.

I still use black on black and have for a while now.

[bkeeler]

FWIW

I went back and forth for a while and now back to F/O. But I don't change the sight I will just blackout the fiber. I have stuck with the fiber for this season last season I had it blacked out.

Haven't really noticed much of a difference in times or accuracy. I did at first when I went back to black but I have the F/O in now and haven't wanted to or felt the need to go back to black. I think I may have learned how to use the F/O the correct way on tight or long shots.

BK

Ok just recently had trouble with the F/O sight shooting a steel match kept shooting high all day Time to go back to black!

[simonsay]

The more I learn and observe, the more I think, my simple brain needs less distractions when it comes to what we do. FO has been something I've used, but I'm less of a fan today.