Can fiber optic sights decrease your accuracy?

[Zaitsev]

Hey guys, first post on this forum. I've been doing a lot of reading and found some valuable infos here. However, I could not find any answer to my question: Can shooting with fiber optics front sight decrease your accuracy?

Let me explain. I think that the more I'm shooting my Shadow, the more I tend to use the fiber optic front sight as a red dot as in an Open gun but it's obviously not the same thing. I don't focuss on my sights as much and I end up getting more C's and D's(and Mikes of course). I spoke with a good shooter this summer who is shooting a Shadow just like I do in Production and he told me that he switched back to standard front sight on his gun because he realised that he was shooting less A's with his fiber optic sight. I'm pretty sure that it is faster for target acquisition but what I'm wondering is if it's less accurate.

So, can shooting fiber optics front sight decrease your accuracy? Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. And does anyone knows what kind of sights are the top shooters are using in Limited and Production? That could be a usefull info.

Thanks for the help.

[G-ManBart]

If you find that you're using it as a dot scope, I can see it definitely causing problems. If you do that on short range targets it won't matter, but once you start talking 15yds+ it'll start to make a big difference.

I'd bet there are a bunch of different sights being used by the top folks in Limited and Production. Some form of a BoMar is likely the overall favorite for rear sights, but there are some others out there with strong following as well like the Warren-Sevigny and Heinie.

[betterment]

IMHumbleO I don't think it would "affect" it, the fundimental is still the same... front sight focus. As Brian says in his book, focus on the top center of the front sight, not just the entirety (dot) of the front sight.

But it will be interesting to see what some of the others have to say when they chime in.

Phil

Edited January 6, 2009 by betterment

[Sean Gaines]

Tomasie calls fiber optic sight "training wheels"

[betterment]

Tomasie calls fiber optic sight "training wheels"

What do you say?

[mike cyrwus]

it can be a crutch if you let it.

use the color to acquire the front sight, then settle your focus on the corners of the front sight.

as you shoot, think;

"color, corners"

[ChuckS]

Some years ago, when I first tried a FO sight, I found that I shot more accurately at one range than another. It turns out that I shot better at the range where the sun was at my back than the one where the sun as at my side. What happened that the brighter "dot" distracted my eye from the top edge of the front sight and I shot high missing distant targets. On the close hoser targets, no big deal.

Try something: Get some black paint or tape or something and shoot a match with your gun w/o the fiber showing and see if you get better results. My SP-01 came with a FO from Angus, and I wound up painting it with black paint and never went back. A plain front post works best with my eyesight. YMMV

Good luck and welcome to the forum,

Chuck

Edited January 6, 2009 by ChuckS

[splashdown]

it can be a crutch if you let it.

use the color to acquire the front sight, then settle your focus on the corners of the front sight.

as you shoot, think;

"color, corners"

I agree with Mike. I find the Brazos Microdot is the best solution for me. The bright fiber helps me locate the front sight quickly, but it's not so big and bright that it washes out the upper corners when I need precision.

YMMV

splash

[el pres]

Yes ! I go back and forth with this but I found that I defenitely shoot more sloppy with the

fiber, much better scores with a blackout. Then I also found that I'm way faster at a 3yd

"multiple" target array with the fiber.. but it's really just cheating the sight picture (for me)..

It's much eaiser to watch the dot bounce when aiming is not as critical (1-10yds)..

The only time I miss the fiber is when I get the gun index in a screwy position in a hard transition,

or near a port, or weak hand, and I have to look for where the front sight is hiding ??

I heard of a new sight that is going around as a prototype that puts the fiber right at the top of the

front sight, this could solve a lot of issues ...

Edit: Oh ya, Welcome to the forums !!

Edited January 6, 2009 by DIRTY CHAMBER

[Sean Gaines]

Tomasie calls fiber optic sight "training wheels"

What do you say?

I personally like them, but occasionally I do find myself looking at the dot instead of the alignment of the front and rear sights, and my hits get sloppy. When I'm doing that, I will switch colors, usually to a green,to change things up and get me focused on the sights again. I like a very small fiber optic, don't like the big mushroom on the end the size of the front sight post.

pk

[Remy]

I find that the red is too distracting. I like green. It’s still fast and easy to pick up but I see my sights too, not just a dot.

[ebg3]

I used a fiber optic bomar style rear sight for a while and found that it slowed my shooting down too much. The accuracy was there but the rear optic was too distracting and made me focus on the rear sight too much/long. I have gone back to a black target bomar rear. I have shot a fiber front sight for many years and I don't think I could live without one. I did recently switch to a partridge style front sight that is under cut on the back end to maintain a glare free black sight picture. It uses a .040" fiber and is .110" wide, it really is a crisp clean sight picture.

[gfmun]

My eyes aren't as good as they used to be and a " crisp sight picture" is out of the question. The fiber optic front sight really helps me. The red color works faster for me, but I have found that the smaller fiber optic in .040 helps me more on accuracy than the larger. Probably bucause I really have to use the front sight rather than just find it.

thanks,

George

[Toolguy]

I shoot with fiber optic front and rear. I have always had trouble with plain black sights on a black target (PPC) or between targets on

a dark background, low light, indoors, etc. When I first started using F/O it was great because all of a sudden I knew where the sights

were every second. However, I soon found that just using the dots was hard on accuracy from 25 to 50 yards. Then I figured out to

use the dots up close and the black notch and post like normal further out. It takes a little practice to be able to do the mental shift

on demand, but it doesn't take long to get it. Now I have the best of both - good sight tracking and precision when needed. I still

think all black is the best for target shooting, but my eyes just won't do it.

[Nik Habicht]

I noticed when shooting a fiber, that if I lost focus my hits would start going up --- because I was aligning the fiber with the top of the rear sight. Yes, the fiber is nice in helping me pick up the front sight --- but it's a crutch, that carries with it the potential to distract me from paying attention to what I need to see to make the shot: The alignment of the sights and the location they are superimposed on the target.....

There's enough distraction on a stage and floating around in my brain; I don't need to add another one to the gun....

[bkeeler]

When I first installed the fiber a few years back it did help for a while as I progressed it became a problem. I found that with a fiber optic front sight that the fiber insert would washout the top of the front sight causing misses on farther shots and tight shots. I blacked mine out I feel I am quicker with it blacked out on farther shots(and tight shots poppers ex...) I don't need the crutch anymore.

BK

[rvb]

As has been said: See what you need to see...

Certainly it's not as accurate to "aim" with the fiber. You have to use the blades for accuracy, imo. But if you can see what you need to see to get A-hits by using the fiber up close then go for it.

The main reason I keep the fiber on my gun is because of those 9am stages in the spring/fall when the sun is low and sometimes the only thing you CAN see because of the sun's angle is the red glow. In that case the "dot" is better than nothing or at least draws my eye TO the blade so I can more quickly get to the job of aligning the sights. Note that I don't consider this an "index" issue as everything may be aligned, but it gives my eye something to focus on so I can align the blades faster.

If you find the fiber is too bright and causing you to not be able to see the blades, take a marker or even powder gunk from inside you gun and smudge up the tube part of the fiber a little bit and that will dim the fiber. Might consider that if you can't see clean edges of the fiber then how can you see clean edges of the blade? Perhaps a sign of eye issues?

I don't know that I'd consider it a "crutch"... more like a "walking stick" for a healthy person... keeps you stable if the ground is muddy and gives you something to lean on, but you can pick it up and run and ignore that you even have it when the situation calls for it. ... or more appropiately if the target is close you can reach out and whack it quick!

quick edit: Front fiber only. Once you've got a good focus on it and if your index is solid, the rear blades should just BE there.

Just my current opinion... ask me again in a year.

-rvb

Edited January 6, 2009 by rvb

[VegasOPM]

I like the fiber. It works a little faster on the close stuff and doesn't impact the distant stuff for me. The fiber is merely a locator- not an aiming point for me. I really like it for Steel matches- where I use it like a red dot on most stages.

[Dan Hefta]

Welcome to the Forum, I like fiber optic sights and if you are a new shooter you probably will too. You will have to try them out for yourself there is no right or wrong answer just whatever works best for you. Good luck, Dan

[lugnut]

First- there is no way a fiber optic front site can decrease your accuracy. It only depends on what the shooter chooses to see. I sight my guns in at 25 yds using the TOP of the front sight (POI = Top of front site). When I shoot tough/longer shots I use the top of the front sight. For closer shots I can use either without any issues as the POI is slightly lower up close. I mostly use the FO to acquire the front sight. On close shots I can center the dot easily for a good shot.

I will not use FO in the reat site.... only black rear sights.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I thought the same thing until I tried a green fiber and a thinner front sight. With more light on either side of the front sight it helped me look at the sight better to center it up. Make sense? I am using 0.070,0.090 and 0.100 front sight widths with a standard Bo-Mar rear sight. Hope this helps and let us know what you find out for yourself. Thanks, Eric

[Paul Burtchell]

Hello: I thought the same thing until I tried a green fiber and a thinner front sight. With more light on either side of the front sight it helped me look at the sight better to center it up. Make sense? I am using 0.070,0.090 and 0.100 front sight widths with a standard Bo-Mar rear sight. Hope this helps and let us know what you find out for yourself. Thanks, Eric

+1 I also switched to the green optic and use a 0.090. Life is good.

[Zaitsev]

Thanks for the infos and comments guys. I trully appreciate.

I switched back to the red fiber optic instead of the green. I think that I was shooting more A's when I was using the red fiber optic so I decided to give it a try. I went to the range today and I did shoot more A's but I can not say for sure if it's because of the red fiber optic. However, I'm pretty sure that red is better for me so I guess I'll stick with that.

Now, some of you guys mentionned that I should use the top of the front sight for the longer/harder shots. I tried it tonight and it works well. With practice, this could help me to get better hits at longer/harder target. Thanks for the tips.

I will also try to paint my FO in black and see how it works for me. If it makes a difference, I might get a full front sight and give it a try.

Finally, some of you has suggested that I get a thinner FO front sight. I shoot a CZ Shadow as I mentionned in the first post and it has the same FO has when I got it out of the box. So, I currently use a 1.5m FO front sight. I saw on CZ Custom shop that there was also a 1.0m model for the Shadow and it says that it's the one that Angus suggest. Would that make a difference? And does anyone know if I have to get the 5.5mm one or the 6.5mm( I did not change the rear sight on my Shadow)?

Thanks for the help.

[MemphisMechanic]

I tried a F.O. front for 6 months. Noticeable increase in accuracy with it removed. Stuck it back on, and immediately had the same problem. I tend to wind up with a target-focus, and getting by with using the red dot in the fuzzy foreground to figure out where the post might be.

With steel sights, you need a front sight if you want hits. And past 7 yards, a crisp front sight beats any other type of focus. At least for myself.

IMO, if you are young enough to clearly focus on the front sight, plain black is the way to go.

Edited January 7, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[kevin c]

Brazos Microdot (or the equivalent of pulling the fiber into the channel at the rear) against a plain rear works for my old eyes - fast pick up, but the post silhouette is still there for precision shots. I use green.