WorldShoot in Bali : No Rob, No Todd, No Dave, No Phil....?

[Julien Boit]

Maybe there are already some posts about it somewhere in the Forum, but I found nothing (or was too lazy to properly search for it ).

I saw that some of the top shooters won't be in Bali for the WorldShoot. Especially Rob Leatham, Todd Jarrett, David Sevigny, Phil Strader etc...

Anybody got any info about why they won't shoot ?

I read somewhere that Dave Sevigny decided to stay away from international events after the controversy of Ecuador, but waht about the rest of the top dogs ? !

[dsb45acp]

I had heard the same thing, Julien. I hope it's just an unfounded rumor. However, there is concern by some here in the US over what is felt to be a general anti-American feeling in many areas of the world and possible security issues in Bali. If that is the reason for some people not attending, then I can understand the thinking. I wouldn't voluntarily endanger myself and therefore the well being of my family. Anyway, I sent a link to this thread to the webmaster at RobLeatham.com, maybe we'll get an answer from TGO himself.

[Carmoney]

Jerry Miculek is not going either. I don't believe any of the top USPSA revolver guys are planning to go.

[pskys2]

I heard on the Revo side that there was "NO" .45 ammo in country, my impression was Armscor wasn't even getting any in. So the hassles were so great most not fretting with it.

[AZGunut]

Hi everyone,

Not to speak for anyone but I did speak face to face with one of the top 5 shooters mentioned and he stated he is not going due to security concerns, inability to bring you own ammo into Bali and the political enviroment in Bali right now. I assume its what most are thinking. He said he wasn't comfortable in risking so much for a match.

[Crusher]

From the US DOS websight (Indonesia)

SAFETY AND SECURITY: Several terrorist attacks have occurred in Indonesia, including the most recent bombing at two beachfront restaurants in Bali in October 2005 that resulted in the deaths of 20 people. Since 2005, the Indonesian police and security forces have disrupted a number of cells and arrested approximately 400 suspects linked with Jemaah Islamiyah (JI), a U.S. Department of State-designated terrorist organization. While Indonesia’s counterterrorism efforts have had significant results, the threat remains. As with most parts of the world, a terrorist attack could occur with little or no warning. JI networks and cells may remain intact and could have the capacity to go operational with little warning.

There remains a continued threat of terrorist attacks, demonstrations and other violent actions that may affect U.S. citizens in Indonesia. Extremists may target both official and private interests. Examples of such targets include high-profile sporting events, residential areas, business offices, hotels, clubs, restaurants, places of worship, schools, public areas, and locales where Americans or foreigners gather in large numbers. The Department of State urges Americans in Indonesia to avoid crowds, maintain a low profile, and be vigilant about security at all times. Americans are advised to monitor local news broadcasts, vary their routes and times in carrying out daily activities, and consider the level of preventive security when visiting public places in Indonesia. Americans vacationing in Indonesia are advised to consider the level of preventive security when choosing hotels, restaurants, beaches, entertainment venues, and recreation sites.

The U.S. Mission in Indonesia must approve U.S. government employees’ travel to the province of Papua, and travelers to that region must also obtain the approval of the Indonesian government. Even though other areas of Indonesia are not under official U.S. government travel restrictions, the U.S. Mission requests that official U.S. government employees inform the Regional Security Officer of their intent to travel to the provinces of Banda Aceh, Central Sulawesi and Maluku.

American travelers and American residents are urged to update their passports and important personal papers in case it becomes necessary to depart Indonesia quickly. Travel distances, poor communications, and an inadequate health care infrastructure make it extremely difficult for the Embassy to respond to U.S. citizen emergencies. Many parts of Indonesia (including many tourist destinations) are isolated and difficult to reach or contact.

Ya think?

Edited August 11, 2008 by Crusher

[pskys2]

Kind of puts the kibosh to IPSC being a bunch of guys looking for a fight.

Have to wonder what the International body was thinking.

[bgary]

Have to wonder what the International body was thinking.

For the most part, I think they were thinking "we have a bid from Bali, and not too many others".

[Skywalker]

Have to wonder what the International body was thinking.

For the most part, I think they were thinking "we have a bid from Bali, and not too many others".

Almost exact.

[Rob Boudrie]

If you were a big name shooter, would you make the time and investment necessary to shoot with unfamiliar ammo that may or may not work well in your equipment?

[boo radley]

If you were a big name shooter, would you make the time and investment necessary to shoot with unfamiliar ammo that may or may not work well in your equipment?

Non-US shooters have better built pistols that can run with this unfamiliar ammo, and US shooters don't?

This is sad on so many many levels, but I hope the shooters in question would explain themselves, why they ain't going, rather than rumor and hearsay.

[wukitatu]

I heard on the Revo side that there was "NO" .45 ammo in country, my impression was Armscor wasn't even getting any in. So the hassles were so great most not fretting with it.

That ain't true. You can take your own but I know they'll supply Armscor 45CP at the match coz a couple of people I know ordered some.

[Jim Norman]

I would like to hear the reasons why.

We are talking about people that have won multiple times. If they have elcted not to go, it makes one wonder.

Is it Venue?, Time Constraints? Money?? Hard to believe that Todd, Robbie, Phil, Dave and Jerry couldn't make a USPSA Subsidized team.

Maybe the WS will visit a 'First World' country in the next few years.

Jim

[XRe]

This is sad on so many many levels, but I hope the shooters in question would explain themselves, why they ain't going, rather than rumor and hearsay.

Believe it or not, most top shooters' lives do not revolve around the Benoverse!!! Best bet to find out might just be to ask them...

On top of security issues, potential concerns about ammo or ammo quality (remember, you have no control over whether the gun/ammo combo will make major, and won't know if it will until you get there....), etc, there's also the sheer cost of getting to the match, both in time and money. Its a pretty serious trip, this time around. I wanted to attend the WS this year, but security concerns and cost kept me away (not that I'm a top shooter, obviously, but still....)

[CSEMARTIN]

Is this phenomenon happening in other countries? Are the top shooters from other countries not shooting in Bali as well?

[racerba]

...potential concerns about ammo or ammo quality (remember, you have no control over whether the gun/ammo combo will make major, and won't know if it will until you get there....),...

Match ammo will not have to go through chrono, so that is not a concern. Armscor is also not poor quality.

...there's also the sheer cost of getting to the match, both in time...

It can't be that they ALL have time issues at the same time. And this is a BIG match that they are all aware of for three years.

...and money.

Being that they are sponsored shooters, I doubt that money is an issue. Plus, if they were on the team, a lot of their expenses are paid for (they most likely would have made the team).

Edited August 11, 2008 by racerba

[Carmoney]

This was the year several of us had hoped we could put together a serious U.S. Revolver team, with Jerry and whomever the top 3 other American revolver shooters happened to be. But then they announced it would be Bali, with its enormous expense and obvious security risks, and that pretty much took all the momentum out of the effort......

Oh well, there's always 2011, right??

[XRe]

Armscor is also not poor quality.

I didn't say it was. However, the quality of the ammunition is outside the competitor's control - therefore, it will be more of a concern than the ammo the competitor has control over (assuming that the competitor normally has solid quality control on their ammo... which the vast majority of those guys do).

It can't be that they ALL have time issues at the same time. And this is a BIG match that they are all aware of for three years.

Can't it be? Its not just the time to shoot the match, there's time to get out there and back, plus (if you want to truly be competitive) acclimation time of about a week in the same time zone. Whether or not they have 3 years to plan for it, its highly conceivable that someone might not want to take that kind of time out to go...

Being that they are sponsored shooters, I doubt that money is an issue.

Its a very common misconception that sponsorship = "free ride". Just because someone is sponsored does not mean that they have expenses covered for them to attend matches with their sponsor's shirts on. In fact, that's frequently not the case. Of the shooters on the list in the title, its possible that one or more would receive full funding from their sponsors, but its quite possible that list might be only 1 shooter - if even that, in the end.

Plus, if they were on the team, a lot of their expenses are paid for (they most likely would have made the team).

Either they did or they didn't. Their ability to qualify for the team this year was different than others - requiring at least a couple of extra matches that they normally would not have scheduled for, as well.

Your contention that these guys should just magically be going, since they're respected, successful shooters, and that they have not choice in it is a little bit odd... I mean, they should be forced to go to the WS? All the reasons above (security, time, ammo concerns, money...) are valid and understandable reasons why someone might not want to go.

[Al Capizzo]

I hadn't hear this before. As noted above- this is sad on many levels.

[chuckw]

This was the year several of us had hoped we could put together a serious U.S. Revolver team, with Jerry and whomever the top 3 other American revolver shooters happened to be. But then they announced it would be Bali, with its enormous expense and obvious security risks, and that pretty much took all the momentum out of the effort......

I definitely saw Jerry's name on the competitor list on the ws website. His name is not there now but Kay Miculek is still on the list, so Jerry not going obviously has nada to do with ammo, expense or security.

As to "top shooters", what about Max, Travis, KC Eusebio, Voigt, Angus, Taran etc???

Edited August 11, 2008 by chuckw

[racerba]

All the reasons above (security, time, ammo concerns, money...) are valid and understandable reasons why someone might not want to go.

I never said that you thought Armscor was poor quality - I was just pointing out the manufacturer of the OMA. I didn't say that the reasons were not valid. However, what I am saying is that ALL these top shooters could not have time issues at the same time - especially for a big match like the WS. I also never said that they all get a free ride. However, most of their expenses would be paid for. These guys shoot for a living. These are the top shooters in the world, not your average sponsored shooters that might get bullets at discount prices. It might be conceivable that one or two might not want to go due to the stated reasons. It is NOT HIGHLY conceivable that all of them don't want to go due to said reasons. This is their livelyhood. I have heard that Phil has time issues, but that's the only one I've heard about with time issues. I've heard of rumor about one other, a very good reason, but a rumor none the less.

You will noticed that I crossed out 'security' because it is the one concern that I can believe is the reason that all of them are not going.

Edited August 11, 2008 by racerba

[TRNinTX]

Ammo is not an issue. You can bring 1,000 rounds into Bali without a problem.

[Dalmas]

IMHO I think security is a substitute for the real reasons. Ammo can be transported and there is no knowing when nor where an terrorist attack might happen. New York, Madrid, London has been hit harder, are they no-go places? yes there are places one should stay away from like Tbilisi right now but any major city in the world is potentially lethal to any visitor.

I wouldn't miss the WS for anything in my power but I shoot IPSC and the WS is the biggest match for IPSC shooters, I don't think it is for USPSA shooters.

Its a pity that so many great shooters are not going.

[Dalmas]

Ammo is not an issue. You can bring 1,000 rounds into Bali without a problem.

Yes but you can only fly with 250. Most airlines will only grant you 11lbs of ammo (including packages) in your checked ammo. But shipping should be no problem.

[Rob Boudrie]

But shipping should be no problem.

Care to enlighten the forum on the logistical and legal aspects of exporting an individual exporting a relatively small amount of this regulated commodity from the US to Indonesia?