Which AR?

[TRK]

I have been shooting USPSA for about 6 months now after about a 15 year lay off. Looking to get into 3Gun. I have an applicable shotgun but lack an AR.

What is a good platform to start with, with an eye towards upgrading later? DPMS, Bushmaster, S&W or any of the otjer manufacturers out there?

[mjbine]

I have been shooting USPSA for about 6 months now after about a 15 year lay off. Looking to get into 3Gun. I have an applicable shotgun but lack an AR.

What is a good platform to start with, with an eye towards upgrading later? DPMS, Bushmaster, S&W or any of the otjer manufacturers out there?

Stag Arms

[D.Hayden]

The upper is more important than the lower. Except the lower needs a new trigger, or good trigger work, whichever one you buy..

I think all the lowers are too similar to call.

But.. there's a few that support ther 3 Gun matches: DPMS is where I'd start.

[LadyinBlue]

Most of the forged lower receivers offered by a variety of different companies would make an adequate starting platform.

IMHO, premium quality barrels are worth the added cost but many other shooters' opinions may differ.

The JP CTR-02 upper is my choice for the BEST AR style rifle as my shooting ability has increased tremendously with my new CTR-02.

I use a Rock River lower that I sent to JP to have their trigger installed.

We have compared a variety of different AR-15 barrels with handloads and have found none to equal or surpass the JP in performance.

-CONSISTANT accuracy at extreme long range-

Edited to fix...I can't believe I spelled adequate wrong...

Edited August 16, 2007 by LadyinBlue

[Nik Habicht]

If you can afford to do it in one shot, you can't go wrong with JP.

[Blockhead]

You'll probably get a lot of input on this. Everybody has their favorites (Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge). I'm currently shooting a JP-15 from JP Enterprises with an 18" VTAC Upper. One awesome resource is Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports (see the Vendor Forum for contact info).

You also might want to move your thread to the "3Gun Rifle Technical Discussion" heading.

Good Luck.

[J-Ho]

The upper is more important than the lower. Except the lower needs a new trigger, or good trigger work, whichever one you buy..

I think all the lowers are too similar to call.

But.. there's a few that support ther 3 Gun matches: DPMS is where I'd start.

+1 Lower doesn't matter much, but give your business to a company that realizes that competative shooters are a ligitamate part of the market.

Sabre has also been sponsoring matches lately. Plus they make very nice rifles. DPMS, hard to go wrong there.

Good Luck !!!

[smokshwn]

I will never argue the quality of JP and one day I will own a CTR 02. However, to put together the best value in a 3 gun AR I would contact Benny Hill of Triangle Shooting Sports.

Good luck and welcome to the spend a thon

[GentlemanJim]

I will never argue the quality of JP and one day I will own a CTR 02. However, to put together the best value in a 3 gun AR I would contact Benny Hill of Triangle Shooting Sports.

Good luck and welcome to the spend a thon

It would be VERY hard argue to this point.!!

Benny did some work for me and it was flawless!

Jim

[EZ Bagger]

Very happy with the JP.

Took the mother in law to the range yesterday. Her first time ever shooting a rifle. Her very first 100yd shot was in the 1/2" black square of the 3" Birch/Casey orange dot and all of her shots were easily in the 3" circle. That's with a 4x scope....

[SA Friday]

Very happy with the JP.

Took the mother in law to the range yesterday. Her first time ever shooting a rifle. Her very first 100yd shot was in the 1/2" black square of the 3" Birch/Casey orange dot and all of her shots were easily in the 3" circle. That's with a 4x scope....

Yes, I shot EZ's JP rifle (a CTR-02) about a year ago. Was hitting a 12" or 18" plate consistantly from 500 yards with that 4x scope. That was with factory ammo to. If you can swing it, it would be hard to beat a JP rifle. The other I've heard many use for less $ is a Rock River; very reliable.

[norbs007]

Do it right the first time, it will be money well spent. It will at least take the equipment factor out of the equation. +1 on the lower part, it's pretty much the same whichever you get. I use a JP15 rifle and also have a DPMS and LCW lowers with JP installed triggers. Both fits snuggly with my CTR upper without play and functions equally well. Get it from one that support the sport. Good luck!

[zhunter]

My AR is a Merlin/Benny gun

[BigDave]

Clark Gator

[Dan Sierpina]

A high quality barrel is the important factor. JP has an extremely large following. While many will say that chromed mil-spec barrels are wonderful, most won't use them with a match grade barrel costing less than $100.00 more.

Mine was built by a retired pistolsmith.

[Joe4d]

Berretta Storm,,, faster to reload, cheaper ammo, can use my cast handgun reloads. and I cant hit anything over 100 yards away anyway.

[kellyn]

At the risk of being repetitive, I would concur with most of the recommendations.

JP (sponsor plug), MTSN, Accuracy Speaks (amigo plug) and Benny Hill (amigo plug) are really the top of the heap for racy 3 gun oriented ARs. They all sponsor 3 gun matches and they've all been around a while.

Sabre Defense, DPMS (amigo plug), POF (amigo plug) and DSA (sponsor plug) all make good products and all generously sponsor 3 gun. I think Smith and Wesson has started to as well but I have little direct experience with their AR to actually recommend them. Jerry seems to shoot one (albiet highly modified) pretty well.

This list is certainly not all inclusive but whatever you do, don't give $$ to those companies/gunsmiths who do nothing for our sport.

[uscbigdawg]

At the risk of being repetitive, I would concur with most of the recommendations.

JP (sponsor plug), MTSN, Accuracy Speaks (amigo plug) and Benny Hill (amigo plug) are really the top of the heap for racy 3 gun oriented ARs. They all sponsor 3 gun matches and they've all been around a while.

Sabre Defense, DPMS (amigo plug), POF (amigo plug) and DSA (sponsor plug) all make good products and all generously sponsor 3 gun. I think Smith and Wesson has started to as well but I have little direct experience with their AR to actually recommend them. Jerry seems to shoot one (albiet highly modified) pretty well.

This list is certainly not all inclusive but whatever you do, don't give $$ to those companies/gunsmiths who do nothing for our sport.

Second to all the above. The big thing is stick to the companies that support our sport.

Rich

[TRK]

At the risk of being repetitive, I would concur with most of the recommendations.

JP (sponsor plug), MTSN, Accuracy Speaks (amigo plug) and Benny Hill (amigo plug) are really the top of the heap for racy 3 gun oriented ARs. They all sponsor 3 gun matches and they've all been around a while.

Sabre Defense, DPMS (amigo plug), POF (amigo plug) and DSA (sponsor plug) all make good products and all generously sponsor 3 gun. I think Smith and Wesson has started to as well but I have little direct experience with their AR to actually recommend them. Jerry seems to shoot one (albiet highly modified) pretty well.

This list is certainly not all inclusive but whatever you do, don't give $$ to those companies/gunsmiths who do nothing for our sport.

Second to all the above. The big thing is stick to the companies that support our sport.

Rich

Thanks everbody I have a place to start now. See a lot of Bushmaster stuff out there. Do they not support?

[uscbigdawg]

Not that I've seen.

Rich

[benelli2]

IMHO -Sabre Defence, DPMS and JP have sponsored more than any other manufacturers in the AR arena, Benny Hill and Clark have long been sponsors, supporters and participants and we need to support them when we can to keep them able to support and manufacture the tools we love. I know other AR suppliers also support and have supported so choose wisely, I personally have SAbre, DPMS and JP rifles in the safe from their generous sponsorship of matches. Alot of it comes down to what $ you have to invest. jc

[EZ Bagger]

Very happy with the JP.

Took the mother in law to the range yesterday. Her first time ever shooting a rifle. Her very first 100yd shot was in the 1/2" black square of the 3" Birch/Casey orange dot and all of her shots were easily in the 3" circle. That's with a 4x scope....

Yes, I shot EZ's JP rifle (a CTR-02) about a year ago. Was hitting a 12" or 18" plate consistantly from 500 yards with that 4x scope. That was with factory ammo to. If you can swing it, it would be hard to beat a JP rifle. The other I've heard many use for less $ is a Rock River; very reliable.

Just to add to the thought process...that's with their lightest weight, pencil neck geeked, 18" barrel. Not a heavy or even bull barrel.

[EricW]

OK, I'm going to disagree with most here and say that whatever you do for your first AR, you should buy a factory-built AR with matched upper-lower. Mil-spec schmill-spec. The tolerances and dimensions from manufacturer to manufacturer differ *considerably* and those differences with mismatched uppers/lower cause a lot more mystery malfs than they're given credit for.

Personally, I think Rock River is the best game in town for a rack-grade rifle. Tough to buy more rifle for $850....and that includes a *good* trigger. Pass on the factory free float tube and order the V-Tac from JP though...

[jobob]

Eric is right (I hate to admit that!). I don't have a Rock River, but they have a great reputation. Whatever, unless you're made of money I wouldn't spend a huge amount for a custom or semi-custom job...yet. At least not until you have a few matches under your belt and you know a little better what you want.

I have 2 Bushmasters, a DPMS, a POF/DPMS, and a Bushy/Double Star pistol (for fun). I'm very satisfied with all of them. You can't buy just one AR, I've found! I'd start with something fairly basic, but you should probably go for the flat top A3 upper, rather than the carry handle A2, for ease in scope mounting (unless you plan on shooing in Limited only). And while we're on scopes, I'd recommend the Weaver V3 1-3x variable. It only costs about $150, and it's a great little scope for the money. I have 4 of them on various rifles with no complaints. You'll want to get a more expensive scope eventually to go with the expensive match rifle you'll eventually get, but the little Weaver is a great starting point. I also have an Accupoint and a Meopta, but, for the money they cost, I'd only say they are marginally better than the Weaver. Midway has them: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/...&t=11082005

And when/if you get that high dollar blaster, you'll still have that basic gun for a backup, practice, protection from zombies, etc.

[Charles Bond]

You can debate this issue night and day but the bottom line is it really makes no difference who put their name on the lower receiver since they are either mil spec or they are not. The real difference is how they are assembled and the internal parts used. In that regard you are making a decision between a person trying to make production on an assembly line and a guy in a small shop who puts his reputation on the line with every gun he ships.

You can spend more money. In fact you can spend a lot more money but you will not buy a better AR for USPSA matches than the one produced by Henry Avant of SAW Custom in Georgia. He has his own trigger and the comp he designed is without peer. He absolutely stands behind each and every rifle he builds.

Do not google him as he has no web site. You will not see him on the front cover of Guns and Ammo or other magazines. Web sites and giving guns away to buy an article adds greatly to overhead and if you are building them all yourself and have a waiting list, who needs the extra overhead?

You can call him at 478-986-4156 and talk to him about what you need. Be prepared to pay for one of his custom build rifles about what you would pay for the one build by the major revolver maker. Be prepared when you receive the rifle to appreciate the difference between a stick build house and a mobile home.

Charles Bond