ErikW Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 We shot Jeff Maas' Joycean Beads stage Sunday, starting seated with your loaded gun at a table and "both hands holding" a loop of beads "in front of your eyes." This was a no-brainer, yet there was much controversy and silly talk of gaming. The problem was the CRO, in the walk-through, held the string, with dangling beads, in front of his face to demonstrate. You'd think he was Moses handing out the commandments from the way people reacted when somebody tried to start according to the description rather than the demonstration. I wrapped the string loop tightly around my weak hand so the beads (machine nuts, a little heavy) were up against my hand so they didn't dangle like a pendulum and get in the way of my reload. I put all my strong hand fingertips on the string, then put my hands near my tabled gun. Since I was looking at my gun, the beads were in front of my eyes. The RO wouldn't start me until he reviewed the course description. Most everybody else just sat there looking straight ahead with their hands a couple feet farther from the gun and the beads dangling. I had a horrible run where my magazine crapped out so I lost ten seconds. After unloading, somebody in the peanut gallery said something to the effect of, "Gamer's revenge." Baaaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Erik, You use the word "gaming" as if it were a bad thing??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Sounds like a decent strategy to me. Too bad about the mag though. It would have been nice if you had really smoked the stage! -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 Feed 'em fish heads and rice...what ever gains a second or a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 10, 2002 Share Posted December 10, 2002 I have come to the conclusion that it is the losers who do not understand gaming. The goal is to win (without cheating or being a weenie) and part of winning is developing a winning attitude. Part of a winning attitude is having a shooting strategy that you have confidence in and that you know you can execute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 after reading the COF, i look the stage over. if i have an idea not PROHIBITED in the stage description, i do it. i do NOT ask if it is ok. they can't tell you no after you do it! Sharon Anne USPSA L2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Must be some migrant from the other sport they call IPDA or something (flamesuiton) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 Quote: from Ron Ankeny on 5:22 pm on Dec. 10, 2002 I have come to the conclusion that it is the losers who do not understand gaming. The goal is to win (without cheating or being a weenie) and part of winning is developing a winning attitude. Part of a winning attitude is having a shooting strategy that you have confidence in and that you know you can execute. Man do I agree on this one. I was at the Infinity Open and took a procedural on a poorly written course. It really helped. A guy on my squad looked at me when I said I was doing it and said "that's cheating". Well in no way is it. Its good winning shooting stragedy. Oh, by the way he took the procedural after watching others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 By the way, the term "loser" has a lot of negative connotations. I didn't mean to use the term as it relates to human worth. What I meant is the people who aren't in the game for the primary purpose of winning. (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 9:34 am on Dec. 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted December 11, 2002 Author Share Posted December 11, 2002 I wasn't the one using the words gamer/gaming, somebody else was referring to my manner of competition. IPSC CHK1, preach on, sister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 11, 2002 Share Posted December 11, 2002 I like to game stages too Erik, but I sometimes wonder if the focus needed to seperate yourself from all the negative vibes emmiting from others ends up hurting you. Quote: from Ron Ankeny "... Part of a winning attitude is having a shooting strategy that you have confidence in and that you know you can execute...." This above quote fits perfectly. Sometimes it's just so darn hard to be confident when your being glared at as a "gamer". It sure is easier when there are a few open-minded shooters in your squad instead of all the yes-men (sheep). (Edited by TDean at 1:34 pm on Dec. 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 thank you Erik. uspsa is SUPPOSED to be freestyle. a problem is presented, restrictions are placed, properly for safety reasons, and the shooter is to find the best solution to the problem. if someone finds a better way they should be praised for original thinking, not penalised or called demeaning names. keep thinking outside the box! SharonAnne L 2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Ask before you do something goofy. It can save a lot of embarassment. If the officials get porky about it, you've found a match that needs better officials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSC CHIK1 Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 if i ask before i do something goofy then i will never do anything. as for embarrassed, you must not have seen my shooting partner Machelle and i before and after a stage. her husband turns away in embarrassment at our antics. SharonAnne L2387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted December 12, 2002 Share Posted December 12, 2002 Erik, Our squad shot that stage before your squad. I started in the much the same position as you, but with no discussion by our RO (we self RO from within the squad). I put the beads on my right hand by looping the string around my little finger and thumb with the beads laying on the back of my right hand. On reveiw of the HoserCam tape my hands were a little (3-4 inches) further away from my gun. I don't think it would have made much difference on this particular stage because after getting up from the table I had to move several feet before I could engage any targets. On a stage where you immediately shot after picking up the gun it would be critical. Your RO thought your elbows had to be on the table because that was the way it was demonstrated. When he read the course description he saw it wasn't required and let you start in your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted December 13, 2002 Share Posted December 13, 2002 I though we were supposed to be "gamers" in USPSA. It IS a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bret Heidkamp Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Erik, I occasionally get loads of grief at our local club about "gaming" a stage. It's frustrating when people just don't get it. But I think that is the problem. They don't get it and feel maybe a little embarrased they didn't think of the solution you did. Their only recourse (besides feeling kinda dumb) is to call you a gamer, etc. So I think it's just their defense mechanisms sounding off so they don't feel bad. Most people I've talked to have said things like "I didn't even think of that" when I talk to them one-on-one afterwards. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's my take on it. Bret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted November 28, 2005 Share Posted November 28, 2005 If theres a clock on, it IS a game and therefor the way I see it is that if you are shooting it you SHOULD "game it" to shoot it the best way you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 Everyone can seem to accept losing to someone who can outshoot them, but some cannot accept losing to someone who can out-think them. In my experience, the ones that complain the most about gaming aren't the top shooters anyway and the gamers would beat them whether they game or not. If top shooters complain, its about themselves for not thinking of it. Those who complain the most are those who shot before the gamer and then have others in their class copy the gamer to their advantage. (Donning flame gear) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 In my start in IPSC in 1990 what I thought was "gameing" was when I saw one guy do or say somthing to cause another shooter do pourly so the first shooter would have a better score. I went on to shoot other sports, The past few years going back to shoot IPSC I have see mostly very good people 99.9% and very few crap heads. I find Gameing does not mean what it used to. If I remember history in 1776 the British said the Yanks were gamers for standing up in line out in a field to get shot at. I would rather shoot after a Fox than a Rabbit. SO Thanks to you Gamers for showing me the better way. Jamie Foote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 I stand up and applaud a shooter that comes up with a better way to shoot a stage.. I love when someone absolutely games the stage...and I salute that shooter that solves the problem with thinking outside of the box..afterall..that is true success in all we do.. solving problems by thinking outside the box but not outside the law... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 After watching someone do it better than me, I usually say, "I wish I had thought of that." .....Except for the bunch I regularly compete with. We usually heap scorn upon them for gaming the stage (and not telling us how!!!!) dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 ...enough sheep bashing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 one of my pet peves is people negatively singeling out a shooter as a "gamer" well my friend what are you, a tactician? if so your a poor one, a competitor.. wait near synonym with gamer..... we are alllll gamers, because it's alll a game. I think it's because they want to call us a cheater but don't have the grit to use fightin words.... and it has to be breaking a rule to cheat. Game well my friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kory Posted November 29, 2005 Share Posted November 29, 2005 stage description reads "start in box A, on signal engage all targets" If you are the only one in your squad that didn't assume you must shoot from box A, you are the gamer. Well, that's how I got the label last time, and I did win the game that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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