lroy Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 I never really cared either way, but to see them bickering for hours over petty things really put a bad taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Don't ever buy a house with a Homeowners Association then... There's two ways to do this kind of thing-- do all the discussion and decision making in advance with committees and whatnot and just ratify those "move to accept the proposal of the Lunch Committee as-filed", or hash it all out then and there. The first is faster, but way less transparent (see: Congress) the second takes a lot longer and can be a lot more painful if somebody doesn't move to call the question and cut off terminally-extended discussions that aren't changing anyone's mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrb06 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 22 hours ago, barry said: Again probably true. Don't think area director is a paying position. I could be wrong. Need normal shooters to step up and run ,not just bitch on internet. Also need more people willing to step up and help out at all levels of this game instead of pointing out what needs to be changed by others. The way things have been going with what has appeared to be hand picked AD who agree with the past and current BOD views and practices, and if not following in step were targets and removed. This creates the problems of anyone wanting to help changed or have different opinions not willing to be subjected to this kind of action and behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 14 hours ago, konkapot said: I wonder what BoD members do for day jobs. Not being snarky, but to sit through 5 hours of this AND go to work the next day might be non-optimal. Some seem much sharper mentally/verbally than others. this is why many of us have been just shooting matches with our friends instead of freaking out about what stoeger and his acolytes think about the BOD. serving on boards and committees sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 10 minutes ago, motosapiens said: this is why many of us have been just shooting matches with our friends instead of freaking out about what stoeger and his acolytes think about the BOD. serving on boards and committees sucks. agreed. All these disgruntled internet folks should take their bat and ball and go home. Start a new organization. Maybe they will come up with the ultimate shooting sport, I'll try it when someone in my area starts running matches. If its good enough i'll start running their matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 minute ago, barry said: agreed. All these disgruntled internet folks should take their bat and ball and go home. Start a new organization. Maybe they will come up with the ultimate shooting sport, I'll try it when someone in my area starts running matches. If its good enough i'll start running their matches. I think a lot of the disgruntled internet folks did start taking their bat and ball and going home, and the bod started taking notice real quick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Well the matches seem to fill up same as they did 5 years ago in area8 but I'll take your word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Just now, barry said: Well the matches seem to fill up same as they did 5 years ago in area8 but I'll take your word for it. Maybe I wasn't clear with what I was getting at. In area 6 apparently a lot of matches decided to quit hosting USPSA matches and just went to hit Factor matches. They may fill up just fine, but USPSA wouldn't not getting a cut of that. People who want to shoot are still going to shoot, but what they might do is not renew their membership, and clubs might let their USPSA affiliation lapse, or just hold the bare minimum to keep the affiliation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 Exactly what I said they should do. Personally I haven't seen a club do that here but if they did more power to them. Like I said maybe the will come up with a great sport. I look forward to trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 4 minutes ago, barry said: Exactly what I said they should do. Personally I haven't seen a club do that here but if they did more power to them. Like I said maybe the will come up with a great sport. I look forward to trying it. I reckon they'll just shoot basically USPSA rules and just not send USPSA any money. Then if/when USPSA gets there stuff in order, they'll just go right back to hosting standard USPSA matches No reason to create a whole new shooting sport, USPSA is actually really good at that. There's some things with the bod that aren't real good, but the game itself is pretty much fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 When I first got into competition shooting whawas being shot at the club I joined was lame. I asked if we could try uspsa, was told yes you can and I've been running that match for 33 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 7 minutes ago, barry said: When I first got into competition shooting whawas being shot at the club I joined was lame. I asked if we could try uspsa, was told yes you can and I've been running that match for 33 years. Nice Running matches is definitely a lot of work. I ran a match for a few years but, unfortunately started the whole club right about when Newtown happened and then there was no ammo and interest waned. It even backed off at the more established clubs. We have a couple of clubs in our area that are still doing good though. I hope when all this stuff is over with in the next hopefully few months, USPSA is stronger and better run than it has ever been. And while that may not happen, maybe it'll be stronger and better run than it's been in a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truespode Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 6 minutes ago, RJH said: I hope when all this stuff is over with in the next hopefully few months, USPSA is stronger and better run than it has ever been. And while that may not happen, maybe it'll be stronger and better run than it's been in a long time. There was some discussion around rules that I enjoyed. There was some good stewardship happening then. That is what I want the board to focus on. Stewardship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 50 minutes ago, barry said: All these disgruntled internet folks should take their bat and ball and go home. Start a new organization. They did. At the individual, club and org level. https://www.pcsleague.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 51 minutes ago, barry said: Well the matches seem to fill up same as they did 5 years ago in area8 but I'll take your word for it. Nope. Faster now. Some are full in 45 seconds. The rest in 60 seconds or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 17 minutes ago, mreed911 said: They did. At the individual, club and org level. https://www.pcsleague.com/ That's been around for a few years now i believe but yet to hear of a match in area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 41 minutes ago, barry said: That's been around for a few years now i believe but yet to hear of a match in area That's at least some of the "hit factor" matches clubs are running when/if they're not doing "USPSA without a classifier, outlaw" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 "Hey, at least it's not USPSA!" is not the best marketing plan. PCSL is growing but IMO it needs to do more maturing and firm up the rulebook before anyone could be confident they could go to a PCSL match in Kansas or Kentucky and not-get some local-rules homebrew thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
858 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, shred said: "Hey, at least it's not USPSA!" is not the best marketing plan. PCSL is growing but IMO it needs to do more maturing and firm up the rulebook before anyone could be confident they could go to a PCSL match in Kansas or Kentucky and not-get some local-rules homebrew thing. That's the reverse of the same argument made for the status quo. "No one cares, they just want to shoot the local match and don't care about the organization". Your argument is for the status quo because someone might go to a local match and care about the organization/rules. I guess the status quo is problematic after all. Local match directors do care and are taking matters into their own hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHicks Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 The nearest (over 2 hours) club shooting PCSL doesn't use the PCSL target with the K zone. As an outsider looking at it that seems like the biggest factor differing PCSL from USPSA isn't being used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, MHicks said: The nearest (over 2 hours) club shooting PCSL doesn't use the PCSL target with the K zone. As an outsider looking at it that seems like the biggest factor differing PCSL from USPSA isn't being used Given the lack of Kzone target suppliers... the costs are a prohibitive right now (To be fair its the difference of $25-$30 per 100). Especially considering most clubs have USPSA/IPSC targets coming out of their ears. But I agree... the Kzone is the real difference maker. Next would be the difference in stage design requirements or lack there of for PSCL. Its going to take a few years (knowing there a VERY few clubs running their rule sets right now) until we see people besides Max L. design stages that really take advantage of the different ruleset and target presentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 Not trying to get this closed so mods I can modify or delete as needed. Does the hive mind here think that any real/potential growth of PCSL is a factor in any BoD thinking or decision making process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, konkapot said: Not trying to get this closed so mods I can modify or delete as needed. Does the hive mind here think that any real/potential growth of PCSL is a factor in any BoD thinking or decision making process? Not at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 3 minutes ago, konkapot said: Not trying to get this closed so mods I can modify or delete as needed. Does the hive mind here think that any real/potential growth of PCSL is a factor in any BoD thinking or decision making process? My individual mind thinks so. I think Donna mentioned reduced revenues on one of the meetings but I haven't searched for it. You know they're seeing the discussion. I know the new board members are concerned about it, but not in a competitive way. They're concerned that if they can't get to a more transparent place for everything - rules, competitions, matches, staffing - that USPSA will be at risk of decline vs. another discipline that offers the same competitive shooting experience and personal skills tests that USPSA does, just easier. By and large at a local level, though, most people just want to shoot with their friends and get better at it regardless of which alphabet sponsored the match that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konkapot Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 I've passively followed this tomfoolery but not been super emotionally invested in it. It appears that there are two extreme camps on these issues. There do indeed appear to be Howler Monkeys doing what Howler Monkeys do. But, they do raise some interesting points. I'm not an expert on anything let alone on corporate governance, but there certainly do appear to be some....non-optimal....behaviors that have gone on with the org. I'd love to know The Truth. The no-kiddin' no spin truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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