shred Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Maybe half of the Open competitors at the recent Area 4 Steel Challenge shot LO-legal pistols. I think there's interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 A Tier 3 match requires 10 or more shooters for Division recognition. At Area 6 this year, there were 18 Open shooters. Splitting them into Open and Limited Optics results in one, and possibly neither, group being big enough for a recognition award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 I'm not sure how that helps the LO shooters much if there's a scoring delta between a LO pistol and a full-on Open gun (the CO-Open comparison would indicate so) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 I originally shot SCSA in Open with my Limited gun, dovetail mounted optic, and 140 PF ammo. Then I built a dedicated 1911 Open gun and shot it with 150 PF ammo. Now I use my backup 2011 Open gun with factory 115s or 132 PF reloads. The only difference is the 1911 Open gun is less pleasant to shoot. In SCSA I think LO and Open will have the same, or very similar peak times. I don't understand the 10 second disparity between CO and Open. The GMs I know who shoot both have essentially the same times. The good, but non-GM shooters using good guns often beat out the Open shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 I don't think it's 10 seconds worth of difference but there is some at my level (high M in CO and Opn.. until the end of the year anyway). At the very top there might not be much since those are all going to be no-makeup runs and the makeups and marginal shot calling is where most of the delta is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 8/15/2023 at 6:50 PM, ZackJones said: This one is on me. At the Jan 2023 in person meeting I asked the BoD to exclude LO from SCSA as a provisional division. I wanted to see how well it would do in USPSA handgun matches and it's currently doing better than expected. I can see it being added in 2024 as a provisional division for SCSA. I would prefer to do provisional for one year to allow us to collect times to help us come up with a good set of Peak Stage Times for classification purposes. And no, club 13 won't become club 14 :). Two questions: (1) Would you shoot in an SCSA match as a provisional division and (2) would you just shoot your existing carry optics gun or would you buy one? I'd shoot it but with my CO gun. I wouldn't buy another gun to shoot it. @ZackJones, Have you made a decision as to when we could expect to see LO in SCSA? Maybe add it in time for WSSC in late May or A4 in early April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 4 Author Share Posted February 4 5 hours ago, joseywales said: @ZackJones, Have you made a decision as to when we could expect to see LO in SCSA? Maybe add it in time for WSSC in late May or A4 in early April? In another post Zack suggested sending inquiries to him via direct email at zack@uspsa.org @ZackJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 8 Author Share Posted February 8 I recently was advised that me and one other from Area 4, were the only SCSA members requesting Limited Optics. I started this topic on behalf of several friends who shoot LO in USPSA and were surprised and confused that it wasn’t approved by HQ for SCSA. To those that have expressed their views against LO in SCSA, thank you for posting. This topic has over 14,000 views (if I understand the 14k tag correctly). Several have posted in favor of LO (thank you). My opinion is only a small percentage of people who view/read topics make posts. If you or any of your friends want LO in SCSA I would encourage you to send an email directly to @ZackJones at zack@uspsa.org Hopefully, if enough emails are sent, Zack will be able to request the BOD’s to consider LO for SCSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Hoops said: I recently was advised that me and one other from Area 4, were the only SCSA members requesting Limited Optics. I started this topic on behalf of several friends who shoot LO in USPSA and were surprised and confused that it wasn’t approved by HQ for SCSA. To those that have expressed their views against LO in SCSA, thank you for posting. This topic has over 14,000 views (if I understand the 14k tag correctly). Several have posted in favor of LO (thank you). My opinion is only a small percentage of people who view/read topics make posts. If you or any of your friends want LO in SCSA I would encourage you to send an email directly to @ZackJones at zack@uspsa.org Hopefully, if enough emails are sent, Zack will be able to request the BOD’s to consider LO for SCSA. weather is nasty,, more people on their computers... Wouldnt matter to me really. SC seems to have a bunch of divisions.. Personally Id rather see revolver rimfire... as there actually is a competitive difference, unlike LO , Open and CO in SC. Youd basically have 3 identical divisions. Comps dont matter sub minor, and I think the slide/vs frame mount isnt as big a deal with single shots on target,,, but eh whatevs.. SC matches I shoot are pretty small and I pretty much only look at the straight up listings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 hours ago, Joe4d said: weather is nasty,, more people on their computers... Wouldnt matter to me really. SC seems to have a bunch of divisions.. Personally Id rather see revolver rimfire... as there actually is a competitive difference, unlike LO , Open and CO in SC. Youd basically have 3 identical divisions. Comps dont matter sub minor, and I think the slide/vs frame mount isnt as big a deal with single shots on target,,, but eh whatevs.. SC matches I shoot are pretty small and I pretty much only look at the straight up listings. And rimfire revo never made it off the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fosters3 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 11 hours ago, Joe4d said: weather is nasty,, more people on their computers... Wouldnt matter to me really. SC seems to have a bunch of divisions.. Personally Id rather see revolver rimfire... as there actually is a competitive difference, unlike LO , Open and CO in SC. Youd basically have 3 identical divisions. Comps dont matter sub minor, and I think the slide/vs frame mount isnt as big a deal with single shots on target,,, but eh whatevs.. SC matches I shoot are pretty small and I pretty much only look at the straight up listings. I would be all in on Rimfire Revolver! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzShooter Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 I've been shooting Rimfire Revolver for years against RPO guys. I use to hold my own but health has changed all that. Shoot with the lady your brought and have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooster mcbee Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 (edited) Revolver Rimfire would be great with me too. I'm sure several of my shooting buddy's would shoot RR if it was an official class. Edited February 9 by rooster mcbee Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Prior to our move to Idaho 5 years ago my wife and I shot the SLOSA match every month with 80 guns at every match (single gun match). The SLOMO match was added to allow 2-guns. The most months the regular match didn't break 30 guns, the SLOMO match around 40. There are very few centerfire handguns in either of these matches. An Action Pistol/Rifle match has been added which appears to use USPSA-type scoring. In our current locale an Action Steel match is now being offered. Given the discussions regarding the convergence of performance among CO, LO (if added), and OPN doesn't it make sense to a)combine CO/LO/OPN into Centerfire Open; b) combine Production and Limited into Centerfire Irons? Is the current trend likely to change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 No. Despite .22 being a huge percentage of matches, there are tangible scoring differences between most of the current centerfire divisions (there are a few that are on-par) so it makes about as much sense as lumping .22 optics and irons together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 On 8/15/2023 at 7:50 PM, ZackJones said: This one is on me. At the Jan 2023 in person meeting I asked the BoD to exclude LO from SCSA as a provisional division. I wanted to see how well it would do in USPSA handgun matches and it's currently doing better than expected. I can see it being added in 2024 as a provisional division for SCSA. I would prefer to do provisional for one year to allow us to collect times to help us come up with a good set of Peak Stage Times for classification purposes. And no, club 13 won't become club 14 :). Two questions: (1) Would you shoot in an SCSA match as a provisional division and (2) would you just shoot your existing carry optics gun or would you buy one? I'd shoot it but with my CO gun. I wouldn't buy another gun to shoot it. That's my opinion as well. What is the practical difference between CO and LO in Steel Challenge? There is none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 6 minutes ago, GOF said: That's my opinion as well. What is the practical difference between CO and LO in Steel Challenge? There is none What's the practical difference between Production and Limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 3 hours ago, GOF said: That's my opinion as well. What is the practical difference between CO and LO in Steel Challenge? There is none. 3 hours ago, GKB said: What's the practical difference between Production and Limited? Race holsters, magwells (not for reloads, for grip surface & leverage). DA first shot & nicer triggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 9 minutes ago, shred said: Race holsters, magwells (not for reloads, for grip surface) DA first shot & nicer triggers. I can tune my SAO only Limited Optic gun much easier than CO gun. SAO triggers are exceptional. My magwell with bridged side skate tape locks my grip in tight. i believe a GM shooting both guns will have a proportionally better time with a proper LO gun. SAO is key. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 9 Author Share Posted February 9 I am pleased to announce that @ZackJones informed an A4 MD/GM friend of mine that Limited Optics for SC will be on the next BOD agenda. Thank you Zack. This it will be discussed by the board who ultimately will make the determination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 This really is simple. Allow the category of Limited optics for a year. If it gets enough shooters let it stay if not Kill it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, hornetx40 said: This really is simple. Allow the category of Limited optics for a year. If it gets enough shooters let it stay if not Kill it That's a great idea. I think it will be a good class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/9/2024 at 4:13 PM, Hoops said: I can tune my SAO only Limited Optic gun much easier than CO gun. SAO triggers are exceptional. My magwell with bridged side skate tape locks my grip in tight. i believe a GM shooting both guns will have a proportionally better time with a proper LO gun. SAO is key. IMO which makes the division meaningless... So I switch to a more expensive gun to shoot against other more expensive guns ? I will lose to and beat the exact same people,,, we will all just have a proportionally better time. Gun types will only matter at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 This topic is approaching 15,000 views. I personally know from a close friend (USPSA GM) who has another social media platform that the interest in LO in SCSA is high. I’m glad that LO will be presented to the BOD. Hopefully the next BOD agenda will be posted soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 Agenda posted USPSA website. LO for SCSA is listed. Thanks @ZackJones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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