Limited optics strong early showing

[Schutzenmeister]

5 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Sigh...... Math is sometimes hard.

 

Premier article Cooper said service cartridges loaded to full power. 45 loaded to full power with 230 grain ball is right at 200 power factor. 

 

True ... In a 5" 1911.  However, IIRC, the Major PF was actually based on a milspec 230 ball from an Officer's model 1911.  (May have been the Commander length ...) The muzzle velocity was a bit lower for that.

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said:

 

True ... In a 5" 1911.  However, IIRC, the Major PF was actually based on a milspec 230 ball from an Officer's model 1911.  (May have been the Commander length ...) The muzzle velocity was a bit lower for that.

 

Well with some quick googling it looks like it would probably run somewhere in the neighborhood of 190 power factor out of a three and a half inch gun

[RJH]

But this thread has gone way off topic. Tell us about how limited optics is doing in your area

[BritinUSA]

3 hours ago, shred said:

Sigh... when will USPSA get that history site going. 

I was thinking the same thing, they've been talking about it for years. I see they keep adding new people to the project but I've not seen any updates in the minutes.

 

There must be a ton of information out there. Sadly a lot of it is probably tucked away in attics, destined to be destroyed when the owners pass away waiting for the historical preservation team to rescue it.

[Nathanb]

On 7/14/2023 at 2:20 PM, RJH said:

 

They're not going to change it, they're just doing it so they can say they did their due diligence. 

 

 

I agree. They should have done it major and minor as provisional.  That’s what it’s for.  But they can’t seem to figure these things out. 

[ChuckS]

10 hours ago, shred said:

Sigh... when will USPSA get that history site going. 

 

Comps were always a thing.  Two shooters at the very first US nationals in 1977 had rudimentary comps.  There were also plastic race holsters in use at that match.

 

Here's the 1978 IPSC rulebook, all four pages of it.  Optical sights are specifically allowed.  Nobody serious used them for another decade until Barnhart won Nationals with a dot, then everyone had to have one.

 

IDPA started because they thought USPSA was getting too "gamey" with dots and comps and high round counts and cleats and knee pads and they wanted to be the "real practical shooting sport" (rumor had it Bill Wilson was tired of getting beaten by the whippersnappers, but AFAIK that was just a rumor).

 

SASS was older guys that were tired of jumping over and crawling under stuff and going prone and getting back up on the clock and liked to play Cowboy.  IPSC was a lot more physical and less shooting back in the day.

 

Power factor was never "200".  It was how far your load would swing the power-meter plate.  Once chronos came into commoner use, then there were numbers attached.

 

938089951_IPSC_1st_1978Copy.pdf 1.27 MB · 5 downloads

 

While not a history site, I did add all the old rule books that I could find on line in this thread:

In addition, I just added the minutes from the Colombia Conference that may shed some light as to where things came from...

[RJH]

1 minute ago, ChuckS said:

 

While not a history site, I did add all the old rule books that I could find on line in this thread:

In addition, I just added the minutes from the Colombia Conference that may shed some light as to where things came from...

 

For some reason I can't open those files. I don't know if it's a setting on my phone or what. I would like to be able to see them though if you have any technical advice LOL

[RJH]

27 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

I agree. They should have done it major and minor as provisional.  That’s what it’s for.  But they can’t seem to figure these things out. 

 

No, they did it correctly. Major in new divisions would be dumb if the object was for people to shoot them. But that has been hashed out about a million times already on this site. How is limited optics doing in your area?

[Racinready300ex]

34 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

I agree. They should have done it major and minor as provisional.  That’s what it’s for.  But they can’t seem to figure these things out. 

 

I think the chances of the division being DOA would of been much higher as a major division. I certainly wouldn't of looked at it, and I know a few people shooting it now that wouldn't of considered it at all either. Especially IDPA guys who are happy to have a place to run their CO guns competitively now. 

 

Minor only was a guaranteed success

[OPENB]

5 hours ago, RJH said:

 

No, they did it correctly. Major in new divisions would be dumb if the object was for people to shoot them. But that has been hashed out about a million times already on this site. How is limited optics doing in your area?

Pretty good in SW Ohio. 10-15 shooters consistently at our locals out of around 75 shooters. We had a fundraiser match for a LEO/shooter last week with almost 100 shooters, and there were 18 in LO. Similar to Ltd. and Open, way behind CO. But next year when people are classified and a whole season can be dedicated to it, it may increase. Bringing it out in the middle of the season when people are getting ready for nationals and other big matches, it's hard to really gauge. I only shot 2 majors this year so far, one in CO before the new division, and one in LO unclassified, because we were all unclassified.

[RJH]

54 minutes ago, OPENB said:

Pretty good in SW Ohio. 10-15 shooters consistently at our locals out of around 75 shooters. We had a fundraiser match for a LEO/shooter last week with almost 100 shooters, and there were 18 in LO. Similar to Ltd. and Open, way behind CO. But next year when people are classified and a whole season can be dedicated to it, it may increase. Bringing it out in the middle of the season when people are getting ready for nationals and other big matches, it's hard to really gauge. I only shot 2 majors this year so far, one in CO before the new division, and one in LO unclassified, because we were all unclassified.

 

 

I know it seems like the builders I have talked to are building a lot of limited optics guns compared to everything else, but that's a relatively small number of builders LOL. I wonder how many people are waiting for their new gun to be ready to start limited optics, or if those people that are getting limited optics guns built are shooting their carry optics gun or something else in limited optics for the time being.

 

Basically I'm wondering if limited optics is going to get an even bigger bump once people's guns are ready

[Racinready300ex]

I know a few people waiting on guns. Some are CO shooters who said we should of just added SAO to CO because it wasn't a advantage which I find interesting. Next year might be interesting. 

[Rich406]

20 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

 

I know it seems like the builders I have talked to are building a lot of limited optics guns compared to everything else, but that's a relatively small number of builders LOL. I wonder how many people are waiting for their new gun to be ready to start limited optics, or if those people that are getting limited optics guns built are shooting their carry optics gun or something else in limited optics for the time being.

 

Basically I'm wondering if limited optics is going to get an even bigger bump once people's guns are ready

There a good amount of people waiting to see if LO is 100% minor only before ordering a custom gun. 

[Boomstick303]

I know of one local Open shooter that once his Open gun has expired will be shooting LO, has already ordered an LO gun.

 

Atlas wait times were advertised at 3 months back in the spring, I received mine at 4 months.  When the Open shooter mentioned his wait time was indicated to be 6 months.  Other local shooters have also put in orders to various vendors, some guys have bought Prodigies and put some lipstick on them, and others are looking into doing the same to Prodigies.   LO is growing here for sure.  

 

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

There certainly seems to be a bottle neck in getting your hands on a 2011 right now. So if the desired effect was selling more guns it's playing out nicely.  

[shred]

For all the bellyaching about how much LO needs to cater to "factory" 2011s, there sure are a bunch of people getting guns built for it 

[Boomstick303]

2 minutes ago, shred said:

For all the bellyaching about how much LO needs to cater to "factory" 2011s,

 

Not sure when that was discussed?  Maybe I missed that in the threads.

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Boomstick303

[motosapiens]

37 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I know a few people waiting on guns. Some are CO shooters who said we should of just added SAO to CO because it wasn't a advantage which I find interesting. Next year might be interesting. 

lol, right.... so it's not an advantage, but they ran out and ordered custom 2011's.

[shred]

3 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

Not sure when that was discussed?  Maybe I missed that in the threads.

 

See: Major/Minor.

[RJH]

I don't think there was ever any question that there would be a lot of custom guns getting built, but there is also a lot of interest in staccados and prodigies and other factory and semi-custom guns

[RJH]

34 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

There a good amount of people waiting to see if LO is 100% minor only before ordering a custom gun. 

 

 

Not according to the people and builders I have talked to. Everybody who wants a custom limited optics gun is already ordering it. I'm sure there's a few holdouts, but overall I would say everybody realizes it's minor only

[Rich406]

Just now, RJH said:

 

but overall I would say everybody realizes it's minor only

The fact that USPSA is still asking the question in a recent poll seems to indicate otherwise…..

[RJH]

16 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

The fact that USPSA is still asking the question in a recent poll seems to indicate otherwise…..

 

 

That's just so they can say they did their due diligence. The other question they asked is how many people had already bought guns for that division, and a lot have. They want the division to flourish, so it will be minor

[OPENB]

15 minutes ago, Rich406 said:

The fact that USPSA is still asking the question in a recent poll seems to indicate otherwise…..

Most believe it's just show, going through the motions. 

[Rich406]

Just now, OPENB said:

Most believe it's just show, going through the motions. 

Yes, because the board always behaves in a transparent and rational manner while making decisions in the best interests of the membership…