Limited optics strong early showing

[ltdmstr]

12 minutes ago, SufferInSilence said:

It’s going to be the next hub thing.  Funny too, when the concept was rolling out, most of the  guys and shops were pumping out commander length-ish size 2011s.  Many of the post I see are fashioning towards the 5” now.  Is that just the “bigger is better” mentality or has there been a change in the whole ‘commander works better for 9mm approach? 
I’m sure we’ll all end up with one of both anyway.   

 

Internet experts decided that 4.5/4.6 was optimal, and the sheep followed.  I've found that for 9mm 2011, anything from 4.25 Commander length to 5.0 Govt Model size works just fine.  Comes more down to personal preference.  The Prodigy I built is a 4.25 with a titanium grip and the gun is so light it feels like a squirt gun.  Shoots fine, but coming from a 5.4 Limited gun, it's kinda weird.  Next LO build will probably be 4.5 of 5.0 with a steel grip and maybe even XWF frame.  Since there's no recoil to start with, the weight isn't really necessary.  Just want to make it closer to what I'm used to. 

[SufferInSilence]

1 hour ago, ltdmstr said:

 

Internet experts decided that 4.5/4.6 was optimal, and the sheep followed.  I've found that for 9mm 2011, anything from 4.25 Commander length to 5.0 Govt Model size works just fine.  Comes more down to personal preference.  The Prodigy I built is a 4.25 with a titanium grip and the gun is so light it feels like a squirt gun.  Shoots fine, but coming from a 5.4 Limited gun, it's kinda weird.  Next LO build will probably be 4.5 of 5.0 with a steel grip and maybe even XWF frame.  Since there's no recoil to start with, the weight isn't really necessary.  Just want to make it closer to what I'm used to. 

Yeah I have a 4.25 prodigy with the steel Cheely.  It’s a tank.   Wry little recoil on 128pf ammo.  Too bad the stats hmmake us have to be 5% better than CO… I could have been somebody! Haha

Edited August 29, 2023 by SufferInSilence

[RJH]

2 hours ago, SufferInSilence said:

It’s going to be the next hub thing.  Funny too, when the concept was rolling out, most of the  guys and shops were pumping out commander length-ish size 2011s.  Many of the post I see are fashioning towards the 5” now.  Is that just the “bigger is better” mentality or has there been a change in the whole ‘commander works better for 9mm approach? 
I’m sure we’ll all end up with one of both anyway.   

 

 

After shooting my four and a quarter inch prodigy versus a pretty standard ish sized 5 inch gun, I liked the 5 inch gun better. And the 5 inch gun had an aluminum grip and was not overly heavy, it did have a tungsten guide rod though. After shooting that I went home and put my tlr1 on The prodigy

 

If I was starting from zero I would buy a prodigy but in a 5 inch, toss a tlr1 on it, and hope somebody made a brass magwell eventually. I think it would have about the right weight and balance combo and still fit my poverty tier budget

Edited August 29, 2023 by RJH

[SufferInSilence]

@RJH that’s cool.  I love my 4.25.  Thinking about doing a 5” next.  My 4.25 is so well balanced with the Cheely grip that I can stand it on its magwell for an unloaded table start.  An RO wigged out over that and went grab the MD.  He got ranked.  It was a good stage.   

I’ve got a maxed out Rival-S that I’m eager to try too.  Waiting on my Lok brass grips to arrive.   

 

 

[RJH]

25 minutes ago, SufferInSilence said:

@RJH that’s cool.  I love my 4.25.  Thinking about doing a 5” next.  My 4.25 is so well balanced with the Cheely grip that I can stand it on its magwell for an unloaded table start.  An RO wigged out over that and went grab the MD.  He got ranked.  It was a good stage.   

I’ve got a maxed out Rival-S that I’m eager to try too.  Waiting on my Lok brass grips to arrive.   

 

 

 

 

Not my prodigy, but I have a different limited gun that will stand resting on the mag well and the end of the slide. It can cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth on table starts that don't specify gun laying flat on the table

 

 

Back to The prodigy though, adding a trl1 with standard batteries did seem to help it out quite a bit. I made just shoot it and not worry about it because, I'm not going to win Nationals or anything regardless. But if somebody comes out with a brass magwell I may end up buying that 5 in

[SufferInSilence]

@RJH yeah I’d not use the flashlight.  For how long before this silly flashlight rule came along, where folks shooting guns like normal…  
 

i feel like outside of guys rocking safari land type holsters that require the light for safety and functionality, and allowing it to draw in a few more tactical dudes to the sport, it’s really kinda silly and serves no practical application to the shooting of USPSA stages.  

the whole point is a display of speed accuracy and power.  Flashlights, for the exclusive use of recoil, just seems like riding with training wheels.   

 

To each his own but, dang, it’s already minor pf.  

[truespode]

7 minutes ago, SufferInSilence said:

i feel like outside of guys rocking safari land type holsters that require the light for safety and functionality, and allowing it to draw in a few more tactical dudes to the sport, it’s really kinda silly and serves no practical application to the shooting of USPSA stages.  

 

I put a light and thumb rest takedown lever on my Carry Optics gun when I started shooting LO (and a magwell). I LOVED the look but it did not help in performance at all and I really didn't notice it was there. I took the light and thumb rest off and didn't notice it was off. The magwell helps but that is it.

I have gone back to CO and took the magwell off but if I go to LO full time I'll only add the magwell back on my plastic gun and leave the rest alone.

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, SufferInSilence said:

@RJH yeah I’d not use the flashlight.  For how long before this silly flashlight rule came along, where folks shooting guns like normal…  
 

i feel like outside of guys rocking safari land type holsters that require the light for safety and functionality, and allowing it to draw in a few more tactical dudes to the sport, it’s really kinda silly and serves no practical application to the shooting of USPSA stages.  

the whole point is a display of speed accuracy and power.  Flashlights, for the exclusive use of recoil, just seems like riding with training wheels.   

 

To each his own but, dang, it’s already minor pf.  

to me it makes sense to compete with a flashlight if you normally carry (concealed or on-duty) with a flashlight. I don't have a flashlight on my carry gun, so i don't use one at matches. very very very few high-level shooters have flashlights. that tells me something.

[RangerTrace]

16 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

to me it makes sense to compete with a flashlight if you normally carry (concealed or on-duty) with a flashlight. I don't have a flashlight on my carry gun, so i don't use one at matches. very very very few high-level shooters have flashlights. that tells me something.

In my experience, holsters that allow a light, suck.  

[RJH]

It makes sense to me to use a flashlight because after comparing a 5" gun with a tungsten guide rod to my 4.25, the 4.25 gun could definitely use some extra weight.

 

I had a light and a holster that would work already, so I used it and the extra 4.25 oz was a step in the right direction. All with no dollars spent 

 

As far as holsters go I notice no difference drawing from a plain kydex holster vs a light bearing one. 

 

That's my experience YMMV

[Timido]

16 hours ago, SufferInSilence said:

@RJH that’s cool.  I love my 4.25.  Thinking about doing a 5” next.  My 4.25 is so well balanced with the Cheely grip that I can stand it on its magwell for an unloaded table start.  An RO wigged out over that and went grab the MD.  He got ranked.  It was a good stage.   

I’ve got a maxed out Rival-S that I’m eager to try too.  Waiting on my Lok brass grips to arrive.   

 

 

I put an aluminum Cheely main spring housing on my 4.25 Prodigy with steel Cheely grip.  It helped it balance a little bit.  I am building a 5" also

[RJH]

 

Well, that escalated quickly. Limited optics now number two division at the match formerly known as iron sight Nationals

[SufferInSilence]

@RJH  the future is near…  

[rowdyb]

Now they just need to announce that Prod will become Prod 15 right before the match.

[Yagi]

21 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Now they just need to announce that Prod will become Prod 15 right before the match.

 

That will be awesome! 

[rowdyb]

It would be a fun change 

[cferree]

Or, they could announce that Production is going back to being Production, i.e. factory slides and barrels, no slide milling, no Dremel tools or soldering irons, etc. to plastic grips, gun with mags and base pads fit in the box, weight + 2 ozs. over factory, capacity is whatever fits the box, AND hang a 3 1/2 lbs. weight on the trigger with the action cocked. 

 

You know Production.

[rowdyb]

1 hour ago, cferree said:

Or, they could announce that Production is going back to being Production, i.e. factory slides and barrels, no slide milling, no Dremel tools or soldering irons, etc. to plastic grips, gun with mags and base pads fit in the box, weight + 2 ozs. over factory, capacity is whatever fits the box, AND hang a 3 1/2 lbs. weight on the trigger with the action cocked. 

 

You know Production.

I'd shoot that as well.

[whan]

2 hours ago, cferree said:

Or, they could announce that Production is going back to being Production, i.e. factory slides and barrels, no slide milling, no Dremel tools or soldering irons, etc. to plastic grips, gun with mags and base pads fit in the box, weight + 2 ozs. over factory, capacity is whatever fits the box, AND hang a 3 1/2 lbs. weight on the trigger with the action cocked. 

 

You know Production.

 

I do think the modern trend of handguns is no longer compatible with a lot of the original concepts of production division. The firearms aftermarket is just so much bigger than it was when prod was originally envisioned, and there is increasing specialization of gunmaker’s “factory” models. Now that we have guns like the shadow 2, Tanfo Stock 2, and more recently Canik SFx, P320 TXG, I don’t think the “stock gun and parts” rule makes sense anymore. I think implementing a stock gun rule to some extent makes the arms race worse, as people will need to swap into completely new guns to get the most competitive model (IE how Shadow 2s ended up dominating).

 

IMO, the ruleset of Production (and Carry Optics, now that LO is a thing) should be moreso based on the key concepts of what makes a pistol practical for real world use. Weight and size limits (fit in box that excludes thumbrests), minimum trigger pull weight, factory capacity mags (either 15 or 17 rounds IMO), are the key factors in my mind that are relevant to a pistol’s real-world practicality. If it was up to me, I’d rename Production and Carry Optics to Practical and Practical Optics respectively with the above ruleset

Edited September 8, 2023 by whan

[SufferInSilence]

@whan Exactly! One key issue is how CO mutated into basically poor man’s open minor.  
There is nothing “carry” oriented about a 40-56oz gun w/23 round mags, magnetic mag pouches, brass grips etc.  

It doesn’t matter that they kept the holster an almost normal style.  Hell, even that’s gone, now that the Ghost Hydra P is out.  

 

Limited Optics is a natural evolution to the sport considering how 2011s, speed holsters, and all the other cool guy gear has been a norm in stuff like Open, Limited, L10, for decades.  And… it doesn’t delusion itself as being a “carry” oriented event.  
 

I feel more than confident running either of these guns in Limited Optics. (And I do)  
But I don’t kid myself into thinking I’d “carry” that 56oz Canik anywhere.   

But if they stay 2 separate divisions I have no issue with taking the magwell off my Canik and bruising a few egos.   

[rowdyb]

I hate to say this, but they probably should make a limited optics super squad at handgun nats