Single Stack Open Gun for Steel Challenge

[JBaldridge]

I'm interested in having a single stack 1911 built with a comp to run 9 minor for steel challenge. Are there any custom shops that still build guns like this? Would it be possible to put a threaded barrel/comp on a standard 1911 myself and doing some minor fitting rather than going the custom-build route? Just trying to figure out what the best option is. I don't need a blinged out gun. Just need one that runs well.

[perttime]

I like the concept, and competent 1911 gunsmiths can certainly do it. Fitting the barrel to the gun must be done right. Personally, I'd let somebody who already knows that stuff do it.

 

I recall there are some (semi?) custom companies that put small comps on carry 1911s

[N3WWN]

There are drop-in threaded barrel options available, though some may be "mostly drop-in" where you have to fit the hood and maybe lower lugs.

 

You'll probably need to load ammo with a relatively slow powder to generate enough gas for the comp to work well.  I like Blue Dot for this, but I'm sure there are other options.

 

The more difficult part of this project may be mounting the red dot sight, assuming that you're going to add one.  If you're not looking to have the frame drilled and tapped, there are dovetail mounts available that replace the rear sight or mounts that attach to the accessory rail (if you have one).

 

At any rate, you don't need a custom, 2" @ 50 yds, bullseye-type 1911 for steel challenge... unless you want one!  

[JBaldridge]

8 minutes ago, N3WWN said:

There are drop-in threaded barrel options available, though some may be "mostly drop-in" where you have to fit the hood and maybe lower lugs.

 

You'll probably need to load ammo with a relatively slow powder to generate enough gas for the comp to work well.  I like Blue Dot for this, but I'm sure there are other options.

 

The more difficult part of this project may be mounting the red dot sight, assuming that you're going to add one.  If you're not looking to have the frame drilled and tapped, there are dovetail mounts available that replace the rear sight or mounts that attach to the accessory rail (if you have one).

 

At any rate, you don't need a custom, 2" @ 50 yds, bullseye-type 1911 for steel challenge... unless you want one!

I am definitely looking to use a frame mounted optic. Either drill and tap with a drill press at home, if that is a feasible option, or send it off to someone. I need a gun that can hit 10" plates at 18 yards and 18x24" plates at 35 yards. Lol. This will be a steel challenge gun specially as it would be no where near viable for USPSA. I would have to take some time to figure out an optimal load to work the comp and still eject my spent cases.

[N3WWN]

Your drill press skills may be far superior to mine, but I think finding a somewhat local machinist who would drill and tap the frame would be the route I'd go.    

 

It's such a small job that sending the gun out for the work seems excessive to me.

 

I prefer to let the professionals do permanent work on serialized parts... but that's just because I know my own limits. hehe

[zzt]

J, you will run into a couple of issues.  The biggest will be receiver selection.  The dust cover on a typical 1911 it not thick enough to thread and hold a frame mount.  You will have to choose one with a thick dust cover, or have someone weld a pad on, then drill and tap.  Frankly, I don't think it is worth it.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with slide mounting a dot on a 45, especially for minor.  I have several and none of them is a problem.  On one I had the rear of the slide scallop cut and mounted the dot directly.  Zero issues.  The oldest is dovetail mounted.  40k+ rounds with no issues.

 

Second issue is slide mods.  The front of the slide will have to be cut back to clear the comp.  One of my slides required .030" to be removed.  Not a problem.  Just something to be aware of.  Your original barrel will still work, but it will look a little funny sticking out the front.

 

BTW, if you drill and tap at home you will likely get lousy threads.  They will require Loctite to stay in.  With perfect threads and good screws, you don't need anything but torque.

 

BTW2, I have never had a drop in barrel work without some mods.  On one I had to recut the bottom lugs.  Stay away from Ed Brown drop-ins.  They may fit their guns, but not either time I tried them.  Stay away from Barsto unless you don't mind doing a ton of work.  You'll have to do some work just to get it into the gun in the first place.  KKM is who I would recommend for your first go-round.  Send them the comp you are planning to use and they will cut the threads to match.  No comp wobble.  You align ream one time and you are good forever.

 

[DougCarden]

These guns have been built for over 40 plus years.  It is not a big deal.  The common set up (which I have) is a 5 inch slide 1911 in 9x19 with a bushing barrel with a 2-3 port comp and slide lightened.  I originally used a CMORE seredipity two side mount and switched to a single side CMORE mount. 

Forget about making the comp work.  Common loads are 100PF.  My load was 3.8 gr W231 with a 115 bullet. 

Good luck with your project!

DougC

[sc68cal]

Here's a couple pictures from Ch. 12 of The Custom Government Model Pistol by Layne Simpson, that show 1911 single stack frames with optics mounted. Really the only thing you'd need to do is drill and tap the frame for holes, I'd probably go with the standard C-More pattern and just get a mount that will center the optic over the bore, or have spacers made that ensure the optic is centered.

 

 

[shred]

You can drill and tap a standard GI dust cover for mount screws and it'll work ok with a five-screw mount; we did it for 175 PF Major back in the day, but there's not much metal there and those old scope mounts with thicker offset pads aren't as easy to come by anymore. 

 

Better would be to get hold of a thick dust-cover 1911 and drill/tap that.  Work with your mount supplier to verify if you need the frame holes parallel to the rails or at the 1-degree angle of the 1911 barrel.  Some mounts come with the angle built-in, some don't.  Easy work with a mill and DRO either way.

 

I tried comparing a slide mounted and frame-mounted dot on the same pistol (a 9mm 2011) and vastly prefer the dot movement from a frame mount, but YMMV.

 

 

[Joe4d]

What Id like to know is where in the heck all these guns are sitting. At one time there were bunches of SS 1911's with Cmores and aimpoints on drilled and tapped frames.. Where are they ? Melted down,, gathering dust ? Seems like they would turn up at pawn shops or guns shows,, but you almost never see them..
FOr that matter, alot of used guns are like that.. Seems you used to be able to find what you wanted. Not anymore,, every gun must go on gunbroker and gets auctioned at insane prices. 
Moved to the middle of Cowboy country and cant find a beater lever gun for less than 1500 like what the heck happened to  all the Marlin 336's and Win 94's. ? I mean I know marlin is gone now but they used to put those 30/30's on the fishing rod racks

 

[barry]

Have seen quite a few single stack 1911 with iron sights and frame holes. A lot of people I'm sure just have them sitting in safes. As far as marlins and Winchester 3030s suddenly collectable, who knew?

Some people still don't know how  cool it is to be a fantasy "operator" and still appreciate walnut and blued steel.

[shred]

IME most of the old single-stack open guns had the top end moved to STI frames.  Parts were a lot scarcer back in those days so that was common.  The leftover stripped single stack frame would get built into something, sold off or just left to gather dust.

 

There were also a lot less people shooting USPSA back in those days so I'd expect there weren't more than a few thousand ever made.

 

[Nolan]

On 3/27/2023 at 5:32 PM, JBaldridge said:

I'm interested in having a single stack 1911 built with a comp to run 9 minor for steel challenge. Are there any custom shops that still build guns like this? Would it be possible to put a threaded barrel/comp on a standard 1911 myself and doing some minor fitting rather than going the custom-build route? Just trying to figure out what the best option is. I don't need a blinged out gun. Just need one that runs well.

 

I think Briley still builds Steel Challenge 1911's.

http://www.brileypd.com/platemaster.html

 

Nolan

[Dave-T]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:55 AM, DougCarden said:

These guns have been built for over 40 plus years.  It is not a big deal.  The common set up (which I have) is a 5 inch slide 1911 in 9x19 with a bushing barrel with a 2-3 port comp and slide lightened.  I originally used a CMORE seredipity two side mount and switched to a single side CMORE mount. 

Forget about making the comp work.  Common loads are 100PF.  My load was 3.8 gr W231 with a 115 bullet. 

Good luck with your project!

DougC

 

When you say forget about making the comp work do you mean that 9 minor loads will not produce enough gas to really make a comp work?

[perttime]

Just thinking aloud....

You are going for low PF. You can get that with fast powders but then you have little gas and it's pressure may be less by the time it gets to the comp. Using slow powders, you might get more gas but pressure will be low to begin with.

 

What about... going for shorter barrel and slide, and popple holes, in addition to a comp?

[Jim O'Young]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:41 PM, Nolan said:

 

I think Briley still builds Steel Challenge 1911's.

http://www.brileypd.com/platemaster.html

 

Nolan

Thanks, Nolan!

 

Yes they DO, and they do it well!

[TONY BARONE]

Jerry Barnhart won the Steel Challenge with a Colt Light weight Commander.

[DougCarden]

To Dave-T.    Correct.  There is some gas but not enough to work the comp the way an major caliber open gun does.

[shred]

This.  I was playing with some PCC comp designs one day and someone said they didn't think it would do anything.  Rotated the comp 90 degrees and let them shoot it..  Hey... the dot jumps to the side. 

[jcc7x7]

Dan Bedell

Bedell customs

[cferree]

I had John at JPL Precision build me a SS Open Steel gun.

 

He took a SA Range Officer, shortened the slide 1/2", cut a little of the barrel & recrowned it, threaded for an EGW cone adapter and added a Cheely Ti comp.  He also drilled the frame for an Allchin mount (he makes one with the correct offset for a SS frame.  The slide was also lightened.  The gun ran great at 138-140 PF with a 7 lbs. spring down one coil.  You had to load long, 1.160", with TMJ's or CMJ's for it to feed.  Even at 140 PF, the slide velocity was really slow.

 

To be honest, it was over comp'd, and this was my fault.  He had the comp in stock, and I told him to use it.  The Cheely comp was too good for a minor gun. 

 

I had a STI Match Master with a T1 comp.  It was great with 125-128 PF loads using HS-6 or 3N38.  To bad it was at the beginning of the end for STI, and the non US made slide cracked in less than 10K rounds.

 

With the right comp and load combination, you can have a very soft shooting Open Steel gun around 125 PF (115 gr. JHP's or 95-100 gr. JHP's).  My current gun has a 4.25" barrel and a comp that is close to the old STI T1.  It runs loads as low as 118 PF with a 7 lbs. recoil spring.  My current load is 125-126 PF.  It feeds and extracts more consistently than the lighter load.

[MuayThaiJJ]

You can get a Trubor barrel and build around it, I love my 1911/2011s with that barrel

[zzt]

On 4/8/2023 at 5:18 PM, shred said:

This.  I was playing with some PCC comp designs one day and someone said they didn't think it would do anything.  Rotated the comp 90 degrees and let them shoot it..  Hey... the dot jumps to the side. 

 

Haha.  I do the same with a 22 pistol when people say a comp is a waste.  It opens their eyes.

[Dchassejr]

I second Bedell Customs

[Bamboo]

i used to see more repurposed open guns from the single stack days of USPSA but not so much any more.  I think the old folks are aging out and when the guns get passed on people don't know what they are or even consider them worthwhile.

 

Anyway, here is a thread about the same topic where i shared my old .38 super single stack open gun conversion to 9mm steel challenge gun.  It was a cool old iron sight open .38 super and I made master with that gun.  Couldn't get rid of it, but did repurpose it.   

I don't shoot a lot of steel challenge these days but my daughter is getting interested in shooting steel and am thinking this would be a great open gun to pass to her.  Gun runs great, and I just use a gamer 115-124gr 9mm load that is probably sub minor...or barely minor.   

 

BTW - EGW has some good cone and threaded comps for projects like this and the prices are very fair. 

 

Good  Luck with your build project!