CO part change and NROI

[Bakerjd]

So I recently started listening to the NROI podcast. In one episode they talked about the take down lever thumb rests being legal because they are just a replacement part. Well say someone is shooting a glock in CO and has replaced the back plate on the slide with one that has a racker on it. Wouldn't it also be legal using the same logic? It's just a replacement part for the slide. 

[driver8M3]

No, slide racking devices are specifically prohibited. 

 

See Appendix D7, 22.

[Bakerjd]

12 hours ago, driver8M3 said:

No, slide racking devices are specifically prohibited. 

 

See Appendix D7, 22.

I get that. But thumb rests are not specifically prohibited, so what is stopping someone from using a regular thumb rest and not the take down lever ones? It also says you can't modify grips to make a thumb rest. Firing pin stops are specifically allowed to be changed with aftermarket ones. Some aftermarket ones happen to have a racker built in, just as some aftermarket slide stops have thumb rest built in. 

[driver8M3]

This is what prevents you from using a regular thumb rest (one that is not attached to the take down lever). This also prevents installing anything that can be used as a slide racking device.

[Dr_Z]

the way I see it, the slide mounted optic itself is often used as a "slide racking device". With that precedence, one should be able to legally install an oversized or oddly shaped slide part (e.g. rear iron sight, back plate and so on). Whether they use them as slide racker or not, it's irrelevant.  

[vluc]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:48 PM, Dr_Z said:

the way I see it, the slide mounted optic itself is often used as a "slide racking device". With that precedence, one should be able to legally install an oversized or oddly shaped slide part (e.g. rear iron sight, back plate and so on). Whether they use them as slide racker or not, it's irrelevant.  

 

Write to Troy and share the results with us here.

[Dirty_J]

Your first mistake… attempting to use logic to understand a DNROI ruling. 
 

Have a couple of drinks. Maybe whack yourself in the head with a hammer… it’ll start to make sense. 

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Your first mistake… attempting to use logic to understand a DNROI ruling. 
 

Have a couple of drinks. Maybe whack yourself in the head with a hammer… it’ll start to make sense. 

Yeh no kidding, Seems they cant read their own rule book... 
But really if it was up to me  Id tell you to use whatever slide racker device you wanted in CO.... What frikking difference would it make ?
If you are racking on the clock you are hosed anyways. What a hair difference on the once in a blue moon unloaded table start ? Probably why they said screw it on the slidestop *thumb rest [generic]*... Who cares, your shooting a 50 oz minor gun if you want. What the heck difference will it make ? 

 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 8/11/2022 at 6:48 PM, Dr_Z said:

the way I see it, the slide mounted optic itself is often used as a "slide racking device". With that precedence, one should be able to legally install an oversized or oddly shaped slide part (e.g. rear iron sight, back plate and so on). Whether they use them as slide racker or not, it's irrelevant.  

 

There is no precedent as you think there is.  A sight that protrudes from the slide isn't designed to rack the slide even if it's used that way.  The reverse is not true.

[motosapiens]

all carry optics guns are equipped with a slide racker. Otherwise they are not legal to shoot division.

[JohnnyD]

Is there a takedown thumb rest that is legal for CO on a Glock?  Specifically Gen 3's

[Unibrain]

8 hours ago, JohnnyD said:

Is there a takedown thumb rest that is legal for CO on a Glock?  Specifically Gen 3's

Great timing for the question.  On todays NROI podcast Troy talks about a thing that replaces some pins on a Glock.  His interpretation is that that device is not legal. 

[Dirty_J]

23 minutes ago, Unibrain said:

Great timing for the question.  On todays NROI podcast Troy talks about a thing that replaces some pins on a Glock.  His interpretation is that that device is not legal. 

Glock doesn’t sponsor as much as Sig does. 

[bobsaid]

5 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Glock doesn’t sponsor as much as Sig does.

That's because Glock has their own competition format specific to glocks.

[GigG]

19 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Glock doesn’t sponsor as much as Sig does.

 

It's not like Glock sells the illegal replacement pins.

[Racinready300ex]

On 7/11/2022 at 11:18 PM, driver8M3 said:

No, slide racking devices are specifically prohibited. 

 

See Appendix D7, 22.

 

Maybe it's not a slide racker, maybe it has some other function we need to thing of but can also be used to rack the slide. Sorta like a optic. 

[Bagellord]

19 hours ago, Unibrain said:

Great timing for the question.  On todays NROI podcast Troy talks about a thing that replaces some pins on a Glock.  His interpretation is that that device is not legal. 

 

What is the part?

[GigG]

39 minutes ago, Bagellord said:

 

What is the part?

 

It's a part that replaces a couple of the pins and is a thumb rest.

[ShredderTactical]

Here is the only Thumb Rest for Glocks that I have found, that is not fixed to the frame, at the link below.  It does not say anything about being approved for USPSA.
https://www.tecperformance.com/home/gun-parts/glock-thumb-grip/

[Dr_Z]

On 8/14/2022 at 8:34 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

There is no precedent as you think there is.  A sight that protrudes from the slide isn't designed to rack the slide even if it's used that way.  The reverse is not true.

What you said is absolutely true, same applies to a very tall or wide iron sight (as stupid as it sounds), correct me if i am wrong, there is no specific limit on how big or tall iron sights can be, or any restriction on Glock backplate dimension. I think the reasons we do not see those things are quite well understood, 1. CO already has slide mount optics that can and are being used as rackers.  2. Limited already allows rackers. 3. All other autoloading iron divisions need to go into the box which makes these kind of modification pointless.

[Fishbreath]

Now that's a curious ruling.

 

The takedown lever/slide stop thumb rests fall under the 'minor external parts' exception in 21.6 of the CO appendix, which specifically call out 'pins' as items that can be replaced. If I wanted to put anti-walk pins on a Glock, that would certainly be allowed. If I replaced the locking block pin and the trigger pin with, say, a long 3mm and 4mm bolt, so that they protruded on the left side, I've made a thumb rest. Connecting the two pins to make a single unit that happens to be a thumb rest and replaces both of the stock Glock pins isn't much further down the line.

 

I don't see how you can rule out the hypothetical Glock part, but not the takedown lever flavor, with the rules as they're written.

[GigG]

2 hours ago, Fishbreath said:

I don't see how you can rule out the hypothetical Glock part, but not the takedown lever flavor, with the rules as they're written.

 

The takedown lever/slide stop thumb rests make a current part bigger.  That is OK.  The Glock part adds an external part where there is none.  You could on the other hand make an extended slide release to a Glock that was big enough to be used as a thumb rest because there is already an external part there.

Edited August 17, 2022 by GigG

[Bakerjd]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:53 AM, GigG said:

 

The takedown lever/slide stop thumb rests make a current part bigger.  That is OK.  The Glock part adds an external part where there is none.  You could on the other hand make an extended slide release to a Glock that was big enough to be used as a thumb rest because there is already an external part there.

So with your logic the left handed version of the thumb rest fpr the P320 isn't legal.... except I asked Troy about it and he assured me it was legal for CO. It is screwed into the flat right side of the take down pin on a P320. 

 

My personal opinion and what I voiced to Troy in an email was that the thumb rest gives an unfair advantage to the right handed shooter on all table start stages due to it making the gun not lay flat on the table. It also gives the right handed shooter the benefit of a thumb rest, how much of a benefit is debatable. But the table start is for sure better if the gun isn't flat on the table. His response was for me to make a left handed version. As if I have that capability. Only one gun in CO already has one being made, the P320 and good luck finding a holster that will fit it, I tried. All other CO legal guns either don't have one at all or are only for right handed shooters. 

 

So really and yes I know 100% I'm being petty I would really like for an actual frame mounted thumb rest to be legal for CO or no thumb rests at all. And TBH I think we should just allow race style holsters like IPSC too. 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Bakerjd said:

My personal opinion and what I voiced to Troy in an email was that the thumb rest gives an unfair advantage to the right handed shooter on all table start stages due to it making the gun not lay flat on the table. It also gives the right handed shooter the benefit of a thumb rest, how much of a benefit is debatable. But the table start is for sure better if the gun isn't flat on the table.

 

Have you timed your table starts with and without some sort of prop? I was never able to detect a difference, so I stopped being a whiny little biatch about it.

 

As far as the benefit of a thumbrest, it is worth noting that very few good limited shooters use them, which makes me think they are not as beneficial as practicing. My wife likes her thumbrest tho, so it may be more useful for chicks.

[Bakerjd]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

Have you timed your table starts with and without some sort of prop? I was never able to detect a difference, so I stopped being a whiny little biatch about it.

 

As far as the benefit of a thumbrest, it is worth noting that very few good limited shooters use them, which makes me think they are not as beneficial as practicing. My wife likes her thumbrest tho, so it may be more useful for chicks.

I haven't actually timed a table start and suspect you are correct. But.... I stillnwant to complain. Lol

 

As for thumb rest being useful I think it depends on the shooter, their grip, and how they use it. I personally love mine on my limited and open gun. Mostly because it helps me keep the same grip position for my weak hand. I don't put much pressure on it but more it's a reference point. I have timed drills with and with out it along with taking video of how the gun moves during recoil to see if it helps either and in recoil it does slightly. As far as making me a faster shooter, no. It does help me keep a consistent grip though.