Speedwagon Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 So my thread has gotten off topic but that's okay because as I said...I'm new to revolvers and I'm learning a lot. So I need to slug the chamber throat in my cylinder and barrel and the slug sizes should be the same? Or the chamber throat can be slightly larger than the barrel? From that I can determine the size projectile that will shoot the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Here's what my gunsmith did. He slugged the barrel, then measured the cylinder throats. I'm my case the barrel slugged at .357, and a .357 pin would pass thru the throats. A .358 would not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjerry1 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I would have never thought that a Performance Center pistol would have such a variation in barrel sizes. Everyone I talked with said they were using 9mm, no issues? Well, with a lot of digging for references on revolvers, I couldn't find very much. I did come across one u-tube video of a gentleman explaining on how you should select the proper bullets for a revolver. The cylinder has a chamber and a throat, and when the bullet leaves the cylinder, it goes into the forcing cone and then exits the barrel. I was trying to use 9mm bullets, .356 dia, and not having much luck with accuracy, consistency, and overall dirtiness of the pistol. After I watched the mans video, I'm now using 38/.357 bullets, Blue Bullets, and everything has gotten better. The bullets fit the chamber, are reduced by the throat, and final size is reduced by the forcing cone, This controls gases from escaping passed the bullets as they transition through the pistol. This has greatly increased accuracy, consistency, and dirt. This has also reduced bullets from walking out of the cases from recoil, not completely, but what I can tolerate. Just so you get an idea, my .357 bullets come out the end of my barrel at .354 dia. Hope I didn't add confusion to the story, mic the throats of your pistol and choose bullets accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjerry1 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 P.S. another thing I have learned, most of the revolver shooters I've met don't get rapped around the handle with a dirty gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 hours ago, tomjerry1 said: Performance Center thinking anything about a gun with the Performance center label non it made it better built than the regular production line guns is a mistake. As best I can tell its just a label Smith throws on smaller production volume guns with no correlation to fit or finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Sadly, that seems to be the case. Maybe a special shape of barrel and some laser marking at most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Toolguy said: Sadly, that seems to be the case. Maybe a special shape of barrel and some laser marking at most. Both of mine, 627 & 929 were Performance Center models, and both needed a lot of gunsmithing to run correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 The PC & the JM's haven't shown any extra. In the 627 the PC has a ball detent instead of the Pro's locking bolt. What got me was that my buddies 929 I handled didn't even have a "Classic" FS? Just don't think there's much choice for an 8 shot though, PC or Pro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted November 24, 2021 Author Share Posted November 24, 2021 I've been down this road too with a 625 PC. I couldn't hold a group to save my life with it. I cleaned it and found tooling gouges that looked like it wasn't finished machined incorrectly in the forceing cone from the 9:00 to 12:00. It took me three months to get S&W to agree it shouldn't be that way and replace the barrel. The "tuned trigger" is a bunch of baloney. The only reason I bought the 929 was because it's an 8 shot and 6" barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSGGlock Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 21 hours ago, MWP said: I have one gun that the cylinder to barrel angle is completely unfixable. Poor thing lives a hard life of dryfire. How do you check the barrel angle? Feeler gauges? Or do you remove the barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWP Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 20 hours ago, SSGGlock said: How do you check the barrel angle? Feeler gauges? Or do you remove the barrel? Feeler gauges is how I do it. Some are so bad to the naked eye you know it needs to come apart when you buy the gun. I still think every gun should be shot before it gets taken apart. I’ve seen some very poor geometry that prints a group just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Brother had a M25 45 colt. Nice gun except that everything was oversized. Cylinder and bbl was .454 instead of .451-.452 and even the chamber’s were sized for the old balloon head cases. He did size some bullets to fit but the brass bulged so bad it wouldn’t last. Smith wouldn’t do anything about it because they claimed it was within SAMMI spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedwagon Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 (edited) I managed to find some Clay's. I looked in the Hodgdon reloading data and the max load they list is 3.0 grains for a muzzle velocity of 857fps. I'm using 124 grain Xtreme bullets so I figure I need at least 968fps to make the 120 power factor for ICORE. What powder charges are people running to make that powder factor? Thanks all! Edit: failed to mention it's a 9mm. Edited December 21, 2021 by Speedwagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 38 minutes ago, Speedwagon said: I managed to find some Clay's. I looked in the Hodgdon reloading data and the max load they list is 3.0 grains for a muzzle velocity of 857fps. I'm using 124 grain Xtreme bullets so I figure I need at least 968fps to make the 120 power factor for ICORE. What powder charges are people running to make that powder factor? Thanks all! In .38 short colt I'm loading 3.0 of Clays behind a 160gr coated bullet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CtYankee Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 11/22/2021 at 1:14 PM, Fishbreath said: Interesting—I'm not altogether sure that I gained anything, doing the throat reaming on my Super GP. Maybe I'll leave it alone on gun #2, when I come by one. The purpose of sizing throat size to bullet size, or bullet size to throat size is that bullets that are larger than the throat are resized by the throat and force the gas shield, at the front of the cylinder, into the frame, then the cylinder rebounds to the recoil shield. Over time this will increase the cylinder end shake (too much is not good) and there will be increased chamber pressure. Uncoated lead bullets that are smaller than the throats allow gas to flow past the bullets and vaporize the surface of the bullet as it exits the throat, this will cause leading of the forcing cone and first inch or so of the barrel. On the other hand, polymer coated bullets don't seem to be affected by this - my 10mm GP100 has .403" throats and I haven't had problems with leading using .401" coated bullets. Tight bullets at lower velocity will probably not affect end shake very quickly, at higher velocity it will occur more quickly. Throats should be the same size as or (preferrably) to .0005" larger than the bullet. Lead bullets sized a couple of thousandths over barrel diameter will squeeze down to barrel diameter, again, you have to plan for a little increase in pressure. My 45 Colt has a .451" barrel with .454" throats, since I upped my bullet size to .454" I haven't had any problems with leading. Small throats are still a problem with jacketed and plated bullets, plated and jacketed bullets through large throats are not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 tight group is dirty at low pressure. Higher the pressure the cleaner it is. why it is so popular for major 40 and minor 9mm with 115's and 124's. Also never been a fan of coated and also your bullets are too small even if they arnt inconsistent. GO to a coated 357 or 358 and a bit lighter and your TG loads should clean right up. Otherwise a powder like Accurate #2, will work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 In 9 mm I would look no further than vv n320 or alliant sport pistol. You will be set for life using either of those and some good coated bullets like blues. N320 is extremely clean and has a good case fill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 I've had good luck with win 231 in 9mm, minor only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 39 minutes ago, ysrracer said: I've had good luck with win 231 in 9mm, minor only. Yep that's a trusty powder. The one I learned to reload on, and still have about 6lbs of it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S&W627shooter Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 In my 627, I have always used 170 grain bullets with 3.3 grains of Clays in Long Colt brass. It's fairly clean, and there is less muzzle flip with a heavy bullet going more slowly. I also don't clean my gun until the leading around the forcing cone or on the cylinder starts to make it stick. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chgofirefighter Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 On 12/22/2021 at 6:54 AM, Guitarmageddon said: In 9 mm I would look no further than vv n320 or alliant sport pistol. You will be set for life using either of those and some good coated bullets like blues. N320 is extremely clean and has a good case fill If you could only find SP or N320 would be nice ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitarmageddon Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 2 hours ago, chgofirefighter said: If you could only find SP or N320 would be nice ~ 4 lbers of n320 have been online multiple times this month. In fact grafs had 4 lbers just this week of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revofan Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 I’ve used vv n340 in my open and lim revos for years and love it clean and soft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chgofirefighter Posted January 22, 2022 Share Posted January 22, 2022 On 1/19/2022 at 2:03 AM, Guitarmageddon said: 4 lbers of n320 have been online multiple times this month. In fact grafs had 4 lbers just this week of it! Thanks~ Unfortunately, everytime I hear that powder is out and I check the sites the powder is already gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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