venatic Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) I also just got that same video texted to me from Tom at Mark 7 and yes Tom has been great and definitely knows his stuff but so far it’s been a frustrating few days of tinkering to no avail. Now to get motivated enough to pull everything apart again for the umpteenth time...praying for better results Edited June 7, 2021 by venatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick67 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 On 6/7/2021 at 6:47 PM, StefVanHauwe said: Newly released video from Mark 7 on the A10 priming system: Steve, could you solve your priming issues with the video's help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posvar Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, Derrick67 said: Steve, could you solve your priming issues with the video's help? I’m hopeful as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefVanHauwe Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 On 6/12/2021 at 10:24 AM, Derrick67 said: Steve, could you solve your priming issues with the video's help? Hi Derrick67, the topics discussed in the video were previously communicated to my directly by M7, which I also recently implemented. So far, so good ... When I have made the next batch of ammo, I'll have a good dataset to say whether or not the problems are reaaly fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 What kind of primer depth consistency ary you getting with the Apex 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrick67 Posted June 20, 2021 Share Posted June 20, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 8:27 PM, StefVanHauwe said: Hi Derrick67, the topics discussed in the video were previously communicated to my directly by M7, which I also recently implemented. So far, so good ... When I have made the next batch of ammo, I'll have a good dataset to say whether or not the problems are reaaly fixed. Thx, sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telligentgunner Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 6/13/2021 at 11:27 AM, StefVanHauwe said: Hi Derrick67, the topics discussed in the video were previously communicated to my directly by M7, which I also recently implemented. So far, so good ... When I have made the next batch of ammo, I'll have a good dataset to say whether or not the problems are really fixed. What's the word on the reliability now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 I"m new to reloading, so I was looking to compare some of my Apex 10 resulting cartridge measurements to what others are getting. In one sample of ten 9mm cartridges using Geco casings, CCI No 500 primers, and 115gr blue bullets I got: Primer depth- Mean: 0.0036" std dev: 0.00129 OAL- Mean: 1.141 std dev: 0.0028 Case diameter at bullet end- Mean: 0.3764 std dev: 0.000599 With no experience in this area, and just using reloading books and articles as guides, I was hoping to get better control over the primer depth than this, given the +/- 3 sigma range with the above numbers would be about 0 to 7.5 mills recessed. Are others getting better control over primer depth than this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AleksanderSuave Posted June 27, 2021 Share Posted June 27, 2021 Has anyone been able to find a mark 7 offset toolhead in stock? they seem to run into the same issues as the Dillon systems when it comes to trim dies and 223/300 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted June 29, 2021 Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) On 6/24/2021 at 8:14 AM, dave148 said: I"m new to reloading, so I was looking to compare some of my Apex 10 resulting cartridge measurements to what others are getting. In one sample of ten 9mm cartridges using Geco casings, CCI No 500 primers, and 115gr blue bullets I got: Primer depth- Mean: 0.0036" std dev: 0.00129 OAL- Mean: 1.141 std dev: 0.0028 Case diameter at bullet end- Mean: 0.3764 std dev: 0.000599 With no experience in this area, and just using reloading books and articles as guides, I was hoping to get better control over the primer depth than this, given the +/- 3 sigma range with the above numbers would be about 0 to 7.5 mills recessed. Are others getting better control over primer depth than this? I suspect you will not get a lot of feedback having stated your question the way you did. I doubt if a significant percentage of 9mm reloaders think in terms of or are concerned with standard deviation. Long distance precision rifle reloaders may think differently; I don't know; don't do that. Perhaps resubmit your data using the following format for example: OAL average 1.141 +/- 0.005 or whatever that +/- number turns out to be. My gut reaction is that your numbers are pretty good but I think in terms of +/- so... Edited to add: Correction, we do use standard dev with respect to measuring power factor and velocity but the other parameters... not so much. Edited June 29, 2021 by ddc clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/28/2021 at 6:01 PM, ddc said: ...doubt if a significant percentage of 9mm reloaders think in terms of or are concerned with standard deviation. I'm not surprised. People have different ways of looking at things. While I am new to reloading, I am not new to manufacturing, so I plan to use manufacturing control techniques in reloading. I don't expect anyone else to approach the problem the same way I am, but if they are interested, they can look up key words like Statistical Process Control (SPC), and process capability (Cp, Cpk) On 6/28/2021 at 6:01 PM, ddc said: Perhaps resubmit your data using the following format for example: OAL average 1.141 +/- 0.005 or whatever that +/- number turns out to be The problem with using range in statistical analysis is that depends on sampling rate. Standard deviation (sigma), does a better job of allowing comparisons between populations that are sampled differently. It is also not as affected by outliers as range is. It does assume a normal distribution, however. My original point was just to get feedback to see if my process was off track. Early corrections are usually better than late. If another beginner ends up reading this thread. Here is some additional information that may be of use: After a few hundred rounds manufactured, the priming system may have undergone a sort of break in, allowing 1 sigma to drop to between 0.0005 and 0.001" using only Geco brass. I did try to use a universal hold down die for the priming stage to see if I got more consistency, but there was no obvious advantage over using the sizing die. At this point, my guess is that case rim thickness consistency, and cleanliness are the two biggest variables for controlling primer depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rvajma Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 Anyone having issues with the powder measure? The volume adjustment keeps working itself loose for me, adding .5 grains to the initial setup for my load of 7.9 grains of HS6 for 9mm major. That extra .5 gr makes things a little spicy at 178pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 How many rounds between increases of 0.5 grains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rvajma Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I double checked after the 1st 100 rounds, than ran another 500. Took them to a practice session, and each subsequent 100 round box seemed a little hotter than the one prior, so ran them through chrono. Normally my practice stuff at 7.9gr is 168ish PF. This was 178. Got back home and measured 10 more powder drops and it was at 8.4 gr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hdiamond Posted July 9, 2021 Share Posted July 9, 2021 I really crank down on the locking nut with a wrench. Seems to do the trick here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venatic Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 Installed new priming system on mine... no go. First two seated about flush then jammed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted July 10, 2021 Share Posted July 10, 2021 What type of primers are you using?: Are they smooth on the open side like CCI, or are the prongs sticking above the rim? Have you tried lightening the primer backup rod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venatic Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 1 hour ago, dave148 said: What type of primers are you using?: Are they smooth on the open side like CCI, or are the prongs sticking above the rim? Have you tried lightening the primer backup rod? I started out with Rem 7 1/2’s then in desperation tried CCI no change. Lyman sent whole new primer system. Installed ...no change. I assume that the new entire system was tuned to work and once I installed it looked like it should work but it doesn’t. It’s have taken the primer system down so many times I have worn out the screws. Not sure which backup rod you are referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 4 hours ago, venatic said: I started out with Rem 7 1/2’s then in desperation tried CCI no change. Lyman sent whole new primer system. Installed ...no change. I assume that the new entire system was tuned to work and once I installed it looked like it should work but it doesn’t. It’s have taken the primer system down so many times I have worn out the screws. Not sure which backup rod you are referring to? The rod that follows the primers in the tube. It looked like there might be a higher chance of a primer hanging up when it is pulled from the stack when there is more pressure on the rod. Can you tell where the mechanism is getting jammed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGA Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) Hi, Feels like I'm having a deja vu. Some of the issues you guys are having are the same as we had with the Evo 3 years back. You might find a lot of useful information in the Evo trouble shooting thread. Edited July 11, 2021 by RGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venatic Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, dave148 said: The rod that follows the primers in the tube. It looked like there might be a higher chance of a primer hanging up when it is pulled from the stack when there is more pressure on the rod. Can you tell where the mechanism is getting jammed? Yes they are jamming right as they go into primer seater. They are stopping the machine with the primer being crushed. This is about a third of the primers it’s crushed. That’s not counting the ones that are crooked in the brass half crushed. Edited July 11, 2021 by venatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venatic Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 (edited) It’s jammed right now. I actually added weight to the rod thinking that was why it wasn’t picking up primers at all occasionally Edited July 11, 2021 by venatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJBriggs Posted July 11, 2021 Share Posted July 11, 2021 So, what was the issue with the Evo's priming system when that machine first went into production? Was Mark 7 eventually able to iron out the priming issues in the later produced machines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave148 Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 15 hours ago, venatic said: It’s jammed right now. I actually added weight to the rod thinking that was why it wasn’t picking up primers at all occasionally Quote It sounds like it might be something different if the extra weight is actually helping. From the image, it looks like the disc and the shell plate are not in sync. I won't get a chance to double check if this position ever occurs on my machine until Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGA Posted July 12, 2021 Share Posted July 12, 2021 12 hours ago, SJBriggs said: So, what was the issue with the Evo's priming system when that machine first went into production? Was Mark 7 eventually able to iron out the priming issues in the later produced machines? The priming system of the Apex is completely different. I was more referring to the powder measure which was mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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