Apex 10 and other Mark 7 goodies

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Hello Venatic I had the same problem with crushed primers badly set at the factory. I have made the correct setting and now works like a Swiss watch. Here is Mark 7's answer I received feedback from our engineering team, see below: '' The punch free length is also set too low. The punch should be flush to the bushing or just a hair below. Right now his primer is dropping way too far down. When the customer is setting the plastic piece. They need to make sure they are getting the center of the radius as close to the primer disk as they can. The piece is fully adjustable, and they can misinterpret our instructions to make one of the corners touch. In regards to primer debris, its always best after a crush to clean the debris. Easiest way is to remove the shell plate nut, to raise the shell plate and remove the primer disk. No need to remove the tool head. ''

[WSA]

How is the Apex doing now?

[telligentgunner]

Yes, please give an update

[altrustic_shape]

As a Apex 10 user, I can say without qualification that the primer system is so frustrating with large primers in particular that I have given up using it entirely in favor of pre-primed cases.  I have tried every adjustment following support guidance and the formal video instructions to ensure that primers 1) drop correctly - yes, that can be hard to accomplish and 2) I have not gotten through a hundred rounds or so without some form of primer problem.  The lack of consistency from working to not working usually means a per-round defect rate of ~5%. 

 

I suspect part of the problem has to do with the occasional spilled powder grains working their way into the primer disc assembly. 

 

This problem is compounded if you have to change primer-type/size frequently.  The primer system calls for that the shell plate be removed to properly get at the bolts holding it to the press so that the primer punch can be changed.

 

Between the priming problems and the unacceptable variance (at least, for me) of powder drops with extruded stick powder means that I am charging each case manually with a Lee powder-thru die.

 

The rest of the press remains a beautiful, well-tuned machine. 

[venatic]

I have since gotten a new shuttle that is a different design. I installed it and it is definitely better.Today I managed to load 47 rounds before it didn’t pick up another primer an spilled powder everywhere. But no crushed primers at all.

The reason it’s been so long as I have been out of town and busy with work.

Once I installed the new primer shuttle and ran a few pieces of new brass thru it and it appeared to work I loaded up the case feeder to make a run and the sensor shutoff wouldn’t allow it to feed.Being pretty disgusted at that point  I just walked away and didn’t even want to look at it for a couple weeks.

Edited August 27, 2021 by venatic

[cool]

''How is the Apex doing now?''

''Yes, please give an update''

Hello, Since my last intervention on this subject (July 12) and the reloading of 1500 cartridges of 40 on APEX 10 no problem of priming..

Edited August 27, 2021 by cool

[SCW_23]

I bought my Apex 10 two months ago and have now made about 1500 cartridges.

Now my experience with the Apex 10.

 

At first I had problems with the case feeder which repeatedly interrupted the Case supply and finally stopped completely.

The problem was an induction switch set incorrectly by the factory. After consultation with Mark7, the problem was quickly solved, there is a small screw on the back of the switch and thus you can adjust the sensitivity of the switch.

 

Next Issue: OAL and Primer seating depth.

My used components are S&B Cases with the same Headstamp, LOS 147gr FMJ RN and RS12 powder.

 

Although I had occupied all stations, it unfortunately turned out that I have strong deviations in the OAL as well as ignition Primer setting depths. However, the deviations only exist at the same 4 positions of the sleeve holder plate. After consulting Mark 7 I got several hints to solve the problem. I checked again if the head plate was tightened and put the Dies a bit lower. After that, I carried out another 10 rounds, but unfortunately with the same result, the fluctuations remained.

All dimensions in mm !!!

 

 In the meantime I had the sleeve holder plate in suspicion and found that it was exactly 0.25mm thicker at the millings of the corresponding positions.

 

It is clear to me that the manufacturing tolerances of the shell holder plate are too high and am currently trying to arrange an exchange of the plate with the seller, but have no feedback yet.

Next came the infamous ignition cap problem, after about 250 cartridges, it crushed me an ignition cap in the primer disc. In the meantime, however, Mark7 had created a video on the problem and I reset the primer disk based on the instructions. However, without success, every 50-100 pieces it crushed a Primer in the Disc.

Meanwhile, I already cursed the purchase of the press, then I took a closer look at the plastic part of the primer guide and found that it was totally scratched by the crushed primers.

 

Then I smoothed the surface with fine sandpaper and put everything back together. It has been working ever since. My conclusion is that for this high price too little quality is delivered in some parts. How can you install such a cheap plastik part at such a crucial point??

 

Why are such high deviations of the sleeve holder plate accepted by Mark 7?!

Where is the quality control that you can expect for this price???

 

[venatic]

I got my case feed sensor problem resolved by turning the brass screw mentioned above slightly and all seems fine there.

I lowered just slightly my primer cup to where the primer is is below flush and that seems to have gotten rid of the crushed primer issue for now.

 I have ran about 100 pieces of new brass and 25 pieces of once fired brass thru it and no mishaps. 

The next test will be to run some brass that needs swaging thru and see what it looks like primer wise. Last time I tried that every primer was seated crooked and smashed. My swager seems be set correctly as I knocked out all the crooked ones and then checked them and all would easily accept a new primer so not sure the exact problem at this point.

 Have had the APex 10 since May and I’m up to about 300 rounds loaded so far. Seems like I have disassembled it once for every round loaded.

[d3ydx3]

5 hours ago, venatic said:

I got my case feed sensor problem resolved by turning the brass screw mentioned above slightly and all seems fine there.

I lowered just slightly my primer cup to where the primer is is below flush and that seems to have gotten rid of the crushed primer issue for now.

 I have ran about 100 pieces of new brass and 25 pieces of once fired brass thru it and no mishaps. 

The next test will be to run some brass that needs swaging thru and see what it looks like primer wise. Last time I tried that every primer was seated crooked and smashed. My swager seems be set correctly as I knocked out all the crooked ones and then checked them and all would easily accept a new primer so not sure the exact problem at this point.

 Have had the APex 10 since May and I’m up to about 300 rounds loaded so far. Seems like I have disassembled it once for every round loaded.

Do you have a primer pocket gauge? If not I recommend that you get one. I’ve also found out that I shouldn’t confuse brass with small/tight primer pockets with brass that is crimped. The swager will fix the latter but not the former. 
 

I received my Apex 10 a couple of weeks ago and it took awhile to get swaging working reliably. The shell plate should only flex minimally (1/16th of an inch). When you first set it up, you will probably see the swage rod lift the case and shell plate if you don’t have the hold down die setup aggressively enough. I had to add more hold down to the point where I see the hold down touch the shell plate spring without a case. Probably over 1-1.5 turns after I felt resistance from the case web. 
 

I also had issues seating primers early on. I can only recommend that you keep the disk as clean as possible and have the primer punch flush against the bushing when it is in the rest position. You should also check your shell plate tightness and index. You should not be able to rotate the shell plate with one hand. If you can then the nut needs to be tighter. The shell plate should have zero to very little flex (press down with your fingers at Station 10).
 

If you see your shell plate move AT ALL to the left or right when the toolhead lowers then your index needs to be fixed per the directions in the manual. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by pealandco

[SJBriggs]

These Mark 7 machines sound like the BMWs of reloading machines. When they are set up correctly, they fly; when something goes wrong, everything comes to a grinding halt! Looking forward to getting one!

[d3ydx3]

14 minutes ago, SJBriggs said:

These Mark 7 machines sound like the BMWs of reloading machines. When they are set up correctly, they fly; when something goes wrong, everything comes to a grinding halt! Looking forward to getting one!

 

I don't think they are different from any other press. When I received my XL750 last year, I fought with primers being crushed and not seated deep enough for months. Turns out the primer punch was just very slightly off from the shell plate. All it required was turning the primer slide screw a bit more so the primer slide went further and aligned with the shell plate. As everyone knows shell plate tension on the XL750/650 is very important. If not tight enough then you end up with all kinds of weird issues. 

 

My point being that every press has its own complexities and tuning required that requires a shakedown before you're running optimally. Taking apart a press (at least the shell plate, priming, etc.) to get more confident with how it operates has helped me and getting my Apex 10 stood up and finely tuned. Some of it has been Mark7 being newer to the game than Dillon, where the core of the 650/1050 design hasn't changed significantly in years, but from what I have seen Mark7 has been good at addressing those issues when they arise and sending customers new parts (like the primer disk for the Apex10). 

Edited August 31, 2021 by pealandco

[SJBriggs]

59 minutes ago, pealandco said:

 

I don't think they are different from any other press. When I received my XL750 last year, I fought with primers being crushed and not seated deep enough for months. Turns out the primer punch was just very slightly off from the shell plate. All it required was turning the primer slide screw a bit more so the primer slide went further and aligned with the shell plate. As everyone knows shell plate tension on the XL750/650 is very important. If not tight enough then you end up with all kinds of weird issues. 

 

My point being that every press has its own complexities and tuning required that requires a shakedown before you're running optimally. Taking apart a press (at least the shell plate, priming, etc.) to get more confident with how it operates has helped me and getting my Apex 10 stood up and finely tuned. Some of it has been Mark7 being newer to the game than Dillon, where the core of the 650/1050 design hasn't changed significantly in years, but from what I have seen Mark7 has been good at addressing those issues when they arise and sending customers new parts (like the primer disk for the Apex10). 

Very true. My XL750 also took a little bit of fine tuning and upgrades to get it running correctly. After a couple years, I'm still refining my reloading process and equipment to get less failures and more consistency.

 

It's good to hear that most are getting the primer system figured out. After checking out an Apex at a local reloading store, it definitely seems like a top notch machine. Build quality seemed second to none.

[venatic]

I do have a primer pocket gauge and I have the cutaway 223 brass to set the swager. I cannot see any flex at all in my shell plate.

I have checked my swaged brass with the primer pocket gauge once I knocked out the crooked smashed primers and the gauge slides right in.

 

[erwos]

Does anyone have any insight into when the new trimmer is coming out? It's really the last piece of getting this thing to where I want it to be. I know I could run an RT1500 or something in the meantime.

 

I agree with the crowd that that the priming system is classically the weak point of the Mark7 presses. Even the Evo can be a little fussy from time to time in my experience.

[Intheshaw1]

4 hours ago, erwos said:

Does anyone have any insight into when the new trimmer is coming out? It's really the last piece of getting this thing to where I want it to be. I know I could run an RT1500 or something in the meantime.

 

I agree with the crowd that that the priming system is classically the weak point of the Mark7 presses. Even the Evo can be a little fussy from time to time in my experience.

I've called and emailed them like 50 times and haven't heard back ever. Ended up working with someone on a 3d print d adapter for a handheld Makita router and plan to print it this weekend. The Makita is a much smaller router and comes with variable speed. Really hope it works out as it would be a great option for about $150.

[tenx100s]

I can tell you all that I wish that I read this forum back a month ago. I ordered a press through MidwayUSA on March 19, 2021 and it arrived the end of September. For those wanting to know if the primer issues have been resolved on newer shipments I can attest that it is NOT on the one I received. 

I do not know at this moment if it is design or manufacturing. I've already reengineered and made components for a Hornady Ammo Plant to get it running correctly and am in no mood to fuss and fiddle with another machine much less than one that costs $3000.

This machine was purchased so I would have more flexibility than a 5 station affords and produce more ammunition in less time. Less time loading and more time emptying. Pulling bullets and tearing down the machine to fix or adjust is NOT what I had in mind.

I've contacted MidwayUSA to see about returning it. I am not a beta tester. I own a tool and die machine shop and get paid to engineer solutions.

[SJBriggs]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:54 PM, tenx100s said:

I can tell you all that I wish that I read this forum back a month ago. I ordered a press through MidwayUSA on March 19, 2021 and it arrived the end of September. For those wanting to know if the primer issues have been resolved on newer shipments I can attest that it is NOT on the one I received. 

I do not know at this moment if it is design or manufacturing. I've already reengineered and made components for a Hornady Ammo Plant to get it running correctly and am in no mood to fuss and fiddle with another machine much less than one that costs $3000.

This machine was purchased so I would have more flexibility than a 5 station affords and produce more ammunition in less time. Less time loading and more time emptying. Pulling bullets and tearing down the machine to fix or adjust is NOT what I had in mind.

I've contacted MidwayUSA to see about returning it. I am not a beta tester. I own a tool and die machine shop and get paid to engineer solutions.

That sucks to hear. I was really looking forward to picking up an Apex, but these primer issues are ridiculous. I've loaded thousands of rounds on my little XL750 without a single priming issue -- ever. There has to be a fix for this.

[d3ydx3]

@SJBriggs@tenx100s this is an excerpt from a FB post that I made a few weeks ago to the Mark 7 Reloading group. I think that Lyman’s recommendation to run a sizing die over the priming station is flawed. You are better off running a standard hold down die or no die at all. When you think about it there is no other press that runs a sizing die over priming. 
 

I've been chasing down an issue with priming on my Apex 10 for several weeks now. Out of 100 rounds I would end up 3-5 crushed/shaved primers. Just right on the edge of the primer pocket. It was consistently with 9mm GFL brass, occasionally some Win, and other headstamps, but mostly GFL. GFL is also not crimped AT ALL and primers seat just fine on my XL750, so more swage isn't the fix. Cleaned out the priming system over the weekend and did a full teardown using the Apex 10 Priming Setup video on YouTube thinking something wasn't aligned. Very good video but the teardown didn't help.

 

Followed the advice that Jamie Lanzilotta gave someone else awhile back about not running a sizing die over the priming station, and using the hold down die instead. MAGICALLY all of my crushed/shaved primer issues went away. Also tried it with no die over the sizing station and that worked fine as well.

I'm not sure if it is a problem with only certain sizing dies and combinations of brass, but there was definitely something bad going on between my Redding sizing die, GFL/Win/other brass, and the priming station that was causing the primers to clip the edge of the pocket as they were being seated. 

 

I should have known to try the hold down die or no die at all when I tried some Shell Shock cases with no sizer over the priming station and everything was running smoothly.

 

Edited October 10, 2021 by pealandco

[erwos]

I have to say that I have also been rethinking about whether I want to do a dedicated decap in station 1 on my Evo, or if I want to size+decap and then run two hold downs (swage and prime). I have not been having the priming issues you guys are having, though - just had to tweak the depth from factory, but it feels perfect for now.

 

For those of you waiting on the Mark7 slim-line trimmer, I bought the cheap Minor Machining trimmer off the 'bay, and it's rather better than expected. Not sure I'd try to single-pass .223 into .300 with one, but the 223 trimming is going pretty well.

[Hvansky]

A mark 7 would be a dream 

[tenx100s]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:18 AM, Hvansky said:

A mark 7 would be a dream 

Or a nightmare. If their customer service does not resolve the issues I'll call my experience a nightmare.

[Rich406]

Ive been running an automated Apex 10 for a few months now. I also have most of the sensors and the digital powder measure

 

Cons: 

Digital powder measure didn't work out of the box and had to be replaced.

Primer system can be really finicky

Primer xpress has more upside down primers than I'd like. 2-3 per 100

 

That said, now that I have it dialed in, it runs pretty much flawlessly at 2000 RPH. It took me a few loading sessions to work out the kinks, but since then Ive run about 10-12k round though it with very minimal problems.

 

[tenx100s]

On 8/26/2021 at 1:42 PM, altrustic_shape said:

As a Apex 10 user, I can say without qualification that the primer system is so frustrating with large primers in particular that I have given up using it entirely in favor of pre-primed cases.  I have tried every adjustment following support guidance and the formal video instructions to ensure that primers 1) drop correctly - yes, that can be hard to accomplish and 2) I have not gotten through a hundred rounds or so without some form of primer problem.  The lack of consistency from working to not working usually means a per-round defect rate of ~5%. 

 

I suspect part of the problem has to do with the occasional spilled powder grains working their way into the primer disc assembly. 

 

This problem is compounded if you have to change primer-type/size frequently.  The primer system calls for that the shell plate be removed to properly get at the bolts holding it to the press so that the primer punch can be changed.

 

Between the priming problems and the unacceptable variance (at least, for me) of powder drops with extruded stick powder means that I am charging each case manually with a Lee powder-thru die.

 

The rest of the press remains a beautiful, well-tuned machine. 

This primer feed issue seems to be contagious. I have tuned and measured my adjustments, ie the primer punch is set .002 below surface of the primer punch plate. The plastic part with the radius is set about .005 but so it does not touch the rotating primer disk yet I still get inconsistent positioning of the shuttle when actuating. I also see a chamfer on the primer shuttle (3:00 in photo) that is not concentric to the hole/slot for the primer. I contacted tech support today asking if this is intentional and if so to what purpose. That chamfer could be the culprit or something in the compliance rod and springs. Either way, I am not going to spend this money to end up priming in a separate operation. I could accomplish that on either of my old Hornady progressives. Actually I did get the Hornady Ammo Plant primer system to work pretty good but got greedy for a couple of additional stations.

I always decap and then clean my brass so I'm not running dirty brass through the press.

 

Your issue with stick powders is interesting. I have used three different brands of rotary powder measures for both rifle and handgun and never had an issue with stick powders except they seem to always have to cut some granules. I wonder if the cutting jostles the measure, bouncing powder out of the measuring hole in the rotary cylinder. The Apex10 measure seems to actuate rather abruptly. 

Years ago I learned that it was best to have a deep measure and even made an insert in one rotary cylinder so the powder column was longer for the same throw weight.

 

Good Luck 

Primershuttle

[Jim Watson]

What is it with duff primer feeds in these high end loaders?  My S1050 was very tedious to adjust when new, and recently required a good going through and addition of a hold down.  My 550B will occasionally get one sideways no matter what I twiddle.

These Mk 7 stories are worse.

 

On the other hand, my old CH AutoCHamp had many shortcomings, especially in the straight line action and I don't try to use it any more, but the primer was always THERE.  My MEC shotshell loaders delivered primers well, and a friend's old Star is trouble free.

[tenx100s]

On 10/27/2021 at 6:28 PM, tenx100s said:

I also see a chamfer on the primer shuttle (3:00 in photo) that is not concentric to the hole/slot for the primer. I contacted tech support today asking if this is intentional and if so to what purpose. That chamfer could be the culprit or something in the compliance rod and springs.

 

Good Luck 

Primershuttle 411.35 kB · 9 downloads

 

Mark7 got back to me and said that the non-concentric chamfer was intentional. "It needs to be there to push the primer stack upwards incase a case is not present and the primer disk returns to the home position with the primer."