Single Stack division is sinking rapidly

[JGus]

Just an observation, but I noticed at the Area 1 match there were a total of 13 SS competitors.  I've noticed this year most level 2 and 3 matches have very few SS competitors. I rarely shoot SS, usually once a year at the PASA Park Single Stack Match, and it's a great time.  I love 1911's.  I have several.  But I've always preferred Production and now CO.

 

I hate to see SS fading away like it is, but I'm not sure what can be done to increase the number of participants? 

[Rnlinebacker]

Just an observation, but I noticed at the Area 1 match there were a total of 13 SS competitors.  I've noticed this year most level 2 and 3 matches have very few SS competitors. I rarely shoot SS, usually once a year at the PASA Park Single Stack Match, and it's a great time.  I love 1911's.  I have several.  But I've always preferred Production and now CO.
 
I hate to see SS fading away like it is, but I'm not sure what can be done to increase the number of participants? 

Uh not a dang thing [emoji1787][emoji1787]

The game is favoring hi cap nowadays across most of the country.

Why does it matter if people shoot SS? It's cool from time to time. Carry optics is devouring everyone anyways lol

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[MemphisMechanic]

I don’t think anyone or anything will “save” it. It’s been on the decline for a long time. But yes, Carry Optics is now hollowing out production and singlestack like a cruise ship torn open by an iceberg.

 

As one of the guys who moved from Production to CO? My reasoning is the total shift in stage design that came with the booming growth of PCC and CO. When nearly all of your stage designers think in terms of 20+ round guns the stages really start to suck for locap.

 

Hedge all you want about “I know good stage designers that...” and “the rules state...” but out in the real world? Stages have changed a lot. And 8-10 round guns are more of a chore to shoot than they used to be.

 

Single Stack is primarily an older man’s division, too. We gave them a way to affordably shoot handguns in matches without fighting to be able to see their sights. Predictable results followed.  

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by MemphisMechanic

[Kema]

Single stack is hard, that's why its not popular.

[RJH]

I am single stacking this year.  But my local match generally has no other SSers so i will many times just sign up in L10 (which here is bigger than SS and production, but still small), or if there is no one shooting L10, i will just shoot my SS gun in limited.  I  used to shoot SS a lot but then switched to limited, but am enjoying shooting SS for now.   I do reckon it is dead and would love to see a 8 major/10 minor division that combined production, revolver, L10, and SS, but that ain't going to happen.   So basically if you want to shoot SS, be prepared to look at overalls for match placement, cause you are probably the only one in the division LOL

[Racinready300ex]

All we can do is try to change the rules to attract people. That seems to be the thing right now. The problem is if you change the rules you can piss off the people who still shoot it driving them away. And if you some how succeed is attracting people all you're doing is pulling them from another division. Then we'll have to figure out what rules we want to change in that division to pull people back to it. It's a never end cycle of constant rule changes. This is kind of where we are right now. 

 

Better solution just nuke SS, Revo and L10. I just shot the VA state and those three division had a combined number of 18 shooters. There were more shooters in C-class in CO. Did the winners of those three division really win? I'd rather win C-class CO then beat 1 one guy for the L10 title. 

[Racinready300ex]

4 minutes ago, Kema said:

Single stack is hard, that's why its not popular.

 

I think that depends how you define hard. Around here the SS is easier IMO.

[belus]

15 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

Better solution just nuke SS, Revo and L10. I just shot the VA state and those three division had a combined number of 18 shooters. There were more shooters in C-class in CO. Did the winners of those three division really win? I'd rather win C-class CO then beat 1 one guy for the L10 title. 

SS and Production score within a couple % of each other. I think L10 does too, but there's not as much data to measure from.

I really like SS, but shoot Production more often because it's a deeper field.  I would be on board with a combined Lo-Cap division that was 8M/10m capacity and blended Pro/SS. Don't really want to distract from the discussion at hand though.

Do Practiscore's public registration numbers contribute to clustering in divisions? I know I avoid signing up for a division that only has 3-4 shooters in a local (often SS), and instead opt to shoot Production which will have 15+. Maybe if I couldn't see the current registration numbers I'd shoot more SS just for fun and we'd have more people showing up for the same reason.

[Racinready300ex]

10 minutes ago, belus said:

SS and Production score within a couple % of each other. I think L10 does too, but there's not as much data to measure from.

I really like SS, but shoot Production more often because it's a deeper field.  I would be on board with a combined Lo-Cap division that was 8M/10m capacity and blended Pro/SS. Don't really want to distract from the discussion at hand though.

Do Practiscore's public registration numbers contribute to clustering in divisions? I know I avoid signing up for a division that only has 3-4 shooters in a local (often SS), and instead opt to shoot Production which will have 15+. Maybe if I couldn't see the current registration numbers I'd shoot more SS just for fun and we'd have more people showing up for the same reason.

 

I like SS too, I enjoyed shooting it for a while. But there really isn't a field to compete against so I stopped. 

 

Public registration may contribute some, but I think to a small degree in USPSA. Most guys in USPSA seem to have a division they shoot. IDPA on the other hand most guys are looking a PS to decide what division to shoot with the goal of getting match bumps. But even over there, their version of SS and Revo are basically dead. 

[RJH]

10 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I think that depends how you define hard. Around here the SS is easier IMO.

I agree.   SS is neither harder or easier than any other division, just different.  Back when i was shooting it a bunch the local open/limited  hot dog decided to shoot SS for a couple of matches that determined who got the nationals slot, there were 3 matches and he and  I split the first 2 and had it not been for a gun malfunction i would have  more than likely won both, he didn't shoot the last one.  

 

That said, give us both a limited or open gun and he crushes me ever time.

[223to45]

Just an observation, but I noticed at the Area 1 match there were a total of 13 SS competitors.  I've noticed this year most level 2 and 3 matches have very few SS competitors. I rarely shoot SS, usually once a year at the PASA Park Single Stack Match, and it's a great time.  I love 1911's.  I have several.  But I've always preferred Production and now CO.
 
I hate to see SS fading away like it is, but I'm not sure what can be done to increase the number of participants? 

"Dont ask what we can do for single stack, ask what can I do for single stack "

You can start by shooting more then once a year.[emoji16]

I was one of of those 13, actually only 11 showed.
WA state match this weekend has 5 SS

I shoot it because it is what I like. It actually seem to be growing ever so slowly here.
Last local match I put on, only 1 production shooter, so it is not doing so good.

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[Rnlinebacker]

 

I think that depends how you define hard. Around here the SS is easier IMO.

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] here we go with the bull lol. USPSA is a fictional game with hit factor scoring. Adding reloads is stupid not harder lol

 

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[223to45]

Single stack is hard, that's why its not popular.

It is not hard, people dont want put in the effort. Anybody can shoot hi cap .

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[Steve RA]

Remember,  When USPSA started, SS was all there was, with the exception of a few Browning HiPowers.

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, Rnlinebacker said:

here we go with the bull lol. USPSA is a fictional game with hit factor scoring. Adding reloads is stupid not harder lol

 

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Winning a division that doesn't have any good shooters is not harder then winning a division stacked with heat. Equipment doesn't really matter everyone with in the division has the same gear options. 

 

Also, I can reload my SS gun faster then my limited or CO gun. Don't pretend hitting a reload in a skinny gun is that hard. 

[lstange]

1 hour ago, belus said:

SS and Production score within a couple % of each other. I think L10 does too, but there's not as much data to measure from.

It does:

 

[IVC]

So what if a division is having just a few shooters? People want to shoot what they have. Those who understand shooting in general will know how to compare their performance to comparable other divisions, those who don't will gripe about winning a division or (ugh) a class. Either way, guys shooting divisions with just a few shooters aren't hurting anyone. 

 

What's next? A marathon runner complaining that there are more runners in a major marathon than all of the USPSA active shooters in a week? So what? I'd still much rather shoot than run...  

[Racinready300ex]

Just now, IVC said:

So what if a division is having just a few shooters? People want to shoot what they have. Those who understand shooting in general will know how to compare their performance to comparable other divisions, those who don't will gripe about winning a division or (ugh) a class. Either way, guys shooting divisions with just a few shooters aren't hurting anyone. 

 

What's next? A marathon runner complaining that there are more runners in a major marathon than all of the USPSA active shooters in a week? So what? I'd still much rather shoot than run...  

 

At level 1's sure. 

 

In marathons doesn't everyone get a trophy? The idea of less hider division is the opposite of that. 

[IVC]

5 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

Did the winners of those three division really win? I'd rather win C-class CO then beat 1 one guy for the L10 title. 

They are equally meaningless... Shoot to attain certain level of proficiency, compete against everyone else, understand your gear handicap, enjoy shooting different guns. 

 

If all you want is to win, grab a few non-shooting buddies, set up a few stages and destroy them. Like any other sport, winning is relevant only at the very top of the sport. Outside the very top, winning is a matter of who shows up. In this day and age we *know* who can shoot better than us and by how much. That's the beauty of having metrics to compare performance. 

[Racinready300ex]

3 minutes ago, IVC said:

They are equally meaningless... Shoot to attain certain level of proficiency, compete against everyone else, understand your gear handicap, enjoy shooting different guns. 

 

If all you want is to win, grab a few non-shooting buddies, set up a few stages and destroy them. Like any other sport, winning is relevant only at the very top of the sport. Outside the very top, winning is a matter of who shows up. In this day and age we *know* who can shoot better than us and by how much. That's the beauty of having metrics to compare performance. 

 

If you don't care about winning, why do you need a special division just for your gun with only 5 people and trophy?

[MikeBurgess]

7 hours ago, JGus said:

Just an observation, but I noticed at the Area 1 match there were a total of 13 SS competitors.  I've noticed this year most level 2 and 3 matches have very few SS competitors. I rarely shoot SS, usually once a year at the PASA Park Single Stack Match, and it's a great time.  I love 1911's.  I have several.  But I've always preferred Production and now CO.

 

I hate to see SS fading away like it is, but I'm not sure what can be done to increase the number of participants? 

I highlighted the problem. if you really hate seeing it decline you would regularly shoot it and try to talk your friends and enemies into shooting it with you. If you rarely shoot it why do you care if it is in decline? 

[motosapiens]

54 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said:

I highlighted the problem. if you really hate seeing it decline you would regularly shoot it and try to talk your friends and enemies into shooting it with you. If you rarely shoot it why do you care if it is in decline? 

 

and also design and build stages that aren't annoying to shoot. All too often it seems like either a stupid stage plan or a standing reload is required for 8-round guns.

[ilovevtac]

3 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

 

and also design and build stages that aren't annoying to shoot. All too often it seems like either a stupid stage plan or a standing reload is required for 8-round guns.

 

This 

[IVC]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

If you don't care about winning, why do you need a special division just for your gun with only 5 people and trophy?

I never thought people competed in those divisions to win a trophy - if you want a trophy, they are cheap to buy online and you can always find an excuse to give yourself a trophy (Millennials do it all the time). The problem with "caring about winning" is that even if you do care, you're not really winning any more or less based on your gear and based on the (lack of) competition in a particular match. Unless you're at the top and going against the (known) top guys in the sport, "winning" just means "they didn't show up" - not a huge accomplishment. 

 

Maybe I'm different since I do several other sports regularly and see people "wanting to win" mostly at the lower and intro levels... 

[18111811]

2 minutes ago, ilovevtac said:

 

This 

I agree.   The last few matches I shot at the "better" local match were heavily geared toward full capacity guns and PCCs.