Single Stack division is sinking rapidly

[cheby]

SS and Production should be in the same division for sure

[Fishbreath]

11 hours ago, RJH said:

I do reckon it is dead and would love to see a 8 major/10 minor division that combined production, revolver, L10, and SS, but that ain't going to happen. 

 

Prod/L10/SS sure, but there's no division slow enough to match up well with Revolver.

[Racinready300ex]

3 hours ago, IVC said:

I never thought people competed in those divisions to win a trophy - if you want a trophy, they are cheap to buy online and you can always find an excuse to give yourself a trophy (Millennials do it all the time). The problem with "caring about winning" is that even if you do care, you're not really winning any more or less based on your gear and based on the (lack of) competition in a particular match. Unless you're at the top and going against the (known) top guys in the sport, "winning" just means "they didn't show up" - not a huge accomplishment. 

 

Maybe I'm different since I do several other sports regularly and see people "wanting to win" mostly at the lower and intro levels... 

 

It's still interesting you don't think people should care about winning, and use that as a reason to have more divisions for people to win at. It's a odd way to look at it for sure. But you do you.

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, IVC said:

I never thought people competed in those divisions to win a trophy - if you want a trophy, they are cheap to buy online and you can always find an excuse to give yourself a trophy (Millennials do it all the time). The problem with "caring about winning" is that even if you do care, you're not really winning any more or less based on your gear and based on the (lack of) competition in a particular match. Unless you're at the top and going against the (known) top guys in the sport, "winning" just means "they didn't show up" - not a huge accomplishment. 

 

Maybe I'm different since I do several other sports regularly and see people "wanting to win" mostly at the lower and intro levels... 

 

dunno if it's so much about 'winning' as about testing myself against the deepest field I can find.

 

the more the rules relax for production (which i support, btw), the less sense it makes to not let 1911's with carry-style magwells compete too. Although I think that would probably kill singlestack for good, at least there would still be a place for the lord's own handgun to compete.

Edited October 6, 2020 by motosapiens

[IVC]

38 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

It's still interesting you don't think people should care about winning, and use that as a reason to have more divisions for people to win at. It's a odd way to look at it for sure. But you do you.

I'm not advocating for more divisions, just for leaving the ones that are already there. It seems every few weeks there is a thread about combining this division with that, removing some other division, prognosticating doom for some third division, analyzing failure of some caliber, etc. It's as if we should feel better by limiting options and choices for others to whatever the division or caliber du jour is...

[MHicks]

I have just always shot the gun that I enjoy shooting the most and whatever division that puts me in that's where I'll be. It has been SS for me but not because I think I'd have a greater chance of winning in a small field.  I'm just a regular "B" classification. If all of a sudden SS was one of the larger divisions I wouldn't look to move to a less populated one it would be more encouragement to shoot SS.

 

If anyone has shot enough matches and is honest with themself they can guage their performance looking at all the results. If they eventually combine production/SS/limited 10 it wouldn't be a deal breaker to me. I have shot some limited matches just for a change of pace and it was fun.

 

 

[Jeff226]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

dunno if it's so much about 'winning' as about testing myself against the deepest field I can find.

 

the more the rules relax for production (which i support, btw), the less sense it makes to not let 1911's with carry-style magwells compete too. Although I think that would probably kill singlestack for good, at least there would still be a place for the lord's own handgun to compete.

Single stacks have a place to compete...they have a whole division of their own plus can shoot in limited, limited 10 and open.  Why do we need to change production to accommodate people who already have their own division plus 3 more options?  If you don't like your division, then buy the right gear and pick another division to compete in.  If you need to see how you did against a deeper field you can sort practiscore and compare against anybody you want to.  Since some single stacks can shoot major, it makes no sense to combine them with production.

 

 

[radny97]

Single stack is hard, that's why its not popular.

Yep


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[AverageJoeShooting]

i should have started in SS.  I shot a match the other day and on the classifier my 8 sec open time was an A score and guy in SS with the same time had a GM score. im actually still thinking about shooting SS for a while just so i can justify buying a DW PM 45

[motosapiens]

8 hours ago, Jeff226 said:

 Since some single stacks can shoot major, it makes no sense to combine them with production.

 

 

 

I should have specified that I was only in favor of considering SS guns as production guns, not introducing major scoring. We already have folks that shoot 40 or 45 in production (like me, with a cz 40, although it's been a few years), and they are scored minor.

[HCH]

It is harder to shoot (especially Major pf, due to reduced capacity) than any of the high cap divisions. 

 

People don't like Reloading that much, or having a stage plan bombed because of a miss on steel. 

 

I wish more folks shot it around here. I just look at the overalls,  and make a match on PS with me and the production shooters. 

[BadShot]

9 minutes ago, HCH said:

It is harder to shoot (especially Major pf, due to reduced capacity) than any of the high cap divisions. 

 

People don't like Reloading that much, or having a stage plan bombed because of a miss on steel. 

 

I wish more folks shot it around here. I just look at the overalls,  and make a match on PS with me and the production shooters. 

Can you use the whatif option on Practiscore and change yourself to production?

[Racinready300ex]

 

If SS is the hardest just because of capacity and people can't reload, Then.....IDPA is the hardest because all their divisions are lo-cap and the accuracy requirement is much higher and most people can't aren't accurate either.

 

Change my mind. 

[HCH]

16 minutes ago, BadShot said:

Can you use the whatif option on Practiscore and change yourself to production?

Yeah but I shoot major. If I shot minor it would be much simpler to change myself to production. 

[HCH]

5 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

If SS is the hardest just because of capacity and people can't reload, Then.....IDPA is the hardest because all their divisions are lo-cap and the accuracy requirement is much higher and most people can't aren't accurate either.

 

Change my mind. 

 

Go shoot a match with a SS major gun AND the high cap gun of your choosing. 

 

Tell me which one has the more straight forward stage planning and faster times. I'm going to bet it is NOT SS. 

[Racinready300ex]

 
Go shoot a match with a SS major gun AND the high cap gun of your choosing. 
 
Tell me which one has the more straight forward stage planning and faster times. I'm going to bet it is NOT SS. 

I've shot SS, it was the first division I made G in. Stage planning is vary similar you just add in more reloads not that big of a deal.

I assume you agree IDPA is harder to??

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[IVC]

 

5 hours ago, AverageJoeShooting said:

and on the classifier my 8 sec open time was an A score and guy in SS with the same time had a GM score.

Happens to me all the time... oh, and the GM score guy has no mikes, so that makes a difference too.

[HCH]

7 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I've shot SS, it was the first division I made G in. Stage planning is vary similar you just add in more reloads not that big of a deal.

I assume you agree IDPA is harder to??

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So why don't more people shoot it, then?

 

All the low cap divisions are falling off, and CO is growing like crazy. 

 

And I don't shoot IDPA... 

[truespode]

 
So why don't more people shoot it, then?
 
All the low cap divisions are falling off, and CO is growing like crazy. 
 
And I don't shoot IDPA... 

I shot carry optics and admit it is because of capacity mostly. However, if Prod ever goes to at least 15 rounds I will probably go back

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[cnote]

we may all be shooting SS and production come 2021 depending on the outcome !!!!!!

 

[Racinready300ex]

28 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

So why don't more people shoot it, then?

 

All the low cap divisions are falling off, and CO is growing like crazy. 

 

And I don't shoot IDPA... 

 

Clearly you don't shoot IDPA because it's to hard.

 

There are lots of reasons people pick the division they do. People shoot what they think is fun and I think most people like blasting. But, SS wasn't doing well before CO was a thing. I think so of that is It's a expensive division, You'll spend a grand on the gun and still probably want to do trigger work ( means gunsmith for most people), sights, magwell and grips and a bunch of mags. Not to mention 1911's aren't nearly as popular in the real world and the more affordable ones tend to not work. CO, you take the Tupperware gun you already have put a $200 holosun on it and you're good to go.

 

On the surface SS is going to look harder to a new shooter, and obviously it seems harder to you. But in reality that new guy is going to loose by more in CO then he does in SS, he just doesn't realize it. 

[HCH]

17 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Clearly you don't shoot IDPA because it's to hard.

 

There are lots of reasons people pick the division they do. People shoot what they think is fun and I think most people like blasting. But, SS wasn't doing well before CO was a thing. I think so of that is It's a expensive division, You'll spend a grand on the gun and still probably want to do trigger work ( means gunsmith for most people), sights, magwell and grips and a bunch of mags. Not to mention 1911's aren't nearly as popular in the real world and the more affordable ones tend to not work. CO, you take the Tupperware gun you already have put a $200 holosun on it and you're good to go.

 

On the surface SS is going to look harder to a new shooter, and obviously it seems harder to you. But in reality that new guy is going to loose by more in CO then he does in SS, he just doesn't realize it. 

 

That's right, I don't shoot IDPA because I'm scared of it. I want my PCC and my safe place. 

 

I think were saying the same thing in a different manner. People like to shoot what they think is fun. You say it's because blasting is fun. It is fun. But it is much harder to blast with a SS gun than a CO gun, which makes it less fun. 

[Racinready300ex]

13 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

That's right, I don't shoot IDPA because I'm scared of it. 

 

 

Same reason people don't shoot SS. 

 

Most people in USPSA joke that IDPA is easier, and people in IDPA think USPSA shooters can't aim. It's the same debate.....(IDPA is easier)

Edited October 6, 2020 by Racinready300ex

[twodownzero]

We have too many divisions now.  The focus should have been on eliminating divisions and now we have more than ever.

 

I like Single Stack, and I don't mind if nobody else wants to shoot it.  I like Limited because it's popular and there's a lot of competition, but my first love is Single Stack all the way.

 

I have no desire to bring a rifle to a pistol match or shoot welfare open.  If It'd been up to me, the former wouldn't exist and the latter would be where it belongs, in Open.  But nobody asked me and the horse it out of the barn, so I welcome those people now.  But if it had been my decision, I would have eliminated L-10 and been absolutely against creating additional divisions.  I was against creating an arms race by allowing 8 round guns in Revolver, too.

 

I do compare myself to the Production shooters regularly and I'm glad they're there, because we have some good Production shooters.

 

Now that we have a gazillion divisions, everyone gets to play with whatever equipment they want.  If y'all want to play in SS with me, that's the division you'll find me in for most matches.

[Racinready300ex]

18 minutes ago, HCH said:

 

I think were saying the same thing in a different manner. People like to shoot what they think is fun. You say it's because blasting is fun. It is fun. But it is much harder to blast with a SS gun than a CO gun, which makes it less fun. 

 

We are probably saying the same thing. As I think about it more and more I think at least starting out Hi-cap is probably easier. I'm thinking about it from the angle of to get good you need to put in the same amount work, making all the divisions equally challenging you just focus more on different skills. The other way I look at it is at local, sectional and even Area level matches it's not uncommon see little to no heat in SS making it easier to win that division. L10 and Revo are much worse for that.

 

Some of it may even be personality dependent. Some people will naturally do better at faster divisions and others a slower divisions. So in that case one may be easier then the other for that person.