Small pistol vs Small rifle primers for major

[NOSHMJ]

So I have been told 2 different stories by 2 different gun makers.  I am told by one maker that small pistol primers will cause wear to the breach face of the slide.  And the other says either or.  Opinions?

[Sarge]

I run Small Rifle. But I have run some CCI small Pistol. Both seemed to seal up fine and the CCI SP didn’t flatten much. Depends a lot on your load.

  With loads on the ragged edge,(true that all 9MAJOR loads are not exactly book loads), Softer SPP could flow or pierce under the higher than normal pressures so I would never run Fed SPP.

 If running lower pressure 9MAJOR loads rock hard SRP might not seal enough to protect the breach face. But that would be uncommon

 

[NOSHMJ]

I seem to favor the CCI small rifle for 9mm major.  Just curious as to any thoughts or truths to the breach face damage or if anyone else has heard this before. 

[Sarge]

you can google breech face erosion and find many threads here on the subject. Some can be quite bad but there also seems to be the thought that the slides are not all created equal.

 

[NOSHMJ]

I have read some of those.  I guess it is just the luck of the draw based on your gun/load combo to not get erosion.  

[aandabooks]

I run Federal Small Pistol Magnum for my major loads match ammo.  I run either CCI/Winchester for SPM for range ammo.  Haven't tried small rifle because I haven't run out of the other options.

[NOSHMJ]

Ive been told magnums are an acceptable option too, but have not tryed them. 

[bigedp51]

Small pistol primers have a cup thickness of .017 to .020 and small rifle primers have a cup thickness of .020 to .025.

Read the link below

 

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

 

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer.  Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.  See Note 1 at the bottom of the page

 

NOTE 1:  According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size.  Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness.  Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound.  They can be used interchangeably.

 

Below you can see the small rifle primers with the thinner cup thickness.

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by bigedp51

[Styro]

same size both just the small rifle one has slightly thicker cup. they both work in pistols if they're cci or federal

[NOSHMJ]

Thats good info.  Thx   

[zzt]

I use CCI 500 SPP exclusively and have no erosion on any of my guns.  With my 9mm major loads, the primers are not flattened at all.  If I run out of CCI500 I'll use my remaining WSP primers.  I like them too, but a lot of them are oval and stick in the primer fill tube.  I've never used WSPs with my current 9mm major load, so I don't know if they would flow at all or not.

[kneelingatlas]

I have used Federal SPP (widely accepted as the softest primers on the market) and have never pierced a primer although I typically load powders on the slower end of the spectrum resulting in lower chamber pressures.  Check out this thread on 9 major component selection:
 

 

[AverageJoeShooting]

i run cci small rifle in my 38 sc.  Its basically what everyone said to use when i started loading so thats what i use....i see no reason to change either since they work and my lgs has endless pallets of them

 

i accidentally bought a bunch of smr magnums too and they seem to run fine with 38sc as well

 

[NOSHMJ]

I like the small rifle primers.  It was recommended a few times and after the builder of one of my guns told me thats what they use, I tryed it out.   

[mayassa]

On 5/22/2020 at 2:05 PM, bigedp51 said:

Small pistol primers have a cup thickness of .017 to .020 and small rifle primers have a cup thickness of .020 to .025.

Read the link below

 

CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS

http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0

 

Small Rifle Standard

CCI 400 -thin .020" cup, not recommended for AR15 use by CCI/Speer.  Good for .22 Hornet, .30 Carbine.  See Note 1 at the bottom of the page

 

NOTE 1:  According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size.  Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness.  Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound.  They can be used interchangeably.

 

Below you can see the small rifle primers with the thinner cup thickness.

 

 

Why would you post this, now I have to go measure my primers.  JK

 

I use both SPP SRP in my loads for both 38 SC STI and Atlas pistols 

[superdude]

On 5/22/2020 at 1:05 PM, bigedp51 said:

 

 

NOTE 1:  According to Speer/CCI Technical Services - Both the CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum and CCI 400 Small Rifle primers are identical in size.  Both primers use the same cup metal and share the same cup thickness.  Both primers use the same primer compound formula and same amount of primer compound.  They can be used interchangeably.

 

 

I asked CCI in August 2016 whether the 400 small rifle and 550 small pistol magnum were the same.  They replied: 

 

". . .  they are not the same primer, there are differences in the primer and you should follow published loading data. The web has some very dangerous information on it and anything that you use should be published and tested data.

 

. . . primer specifications are proprietary information and not available to the public. There is differences in the mix." 

Justin M./Technical Service Rep.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
 

 

[EEH]

7 hours ago, superdude said:

 

I asked CCI in August 2016 whether the 400 small rifle and 550 small pistol magnum were the same.  They replied: 

 

". . .  they are not the same primer, there are differences in the primer and you should follow published loading data. The web has some very dangerous information on it and anything that you use should be published and tested data.

 

. . . primer specifications are proprietary information and not available to the public. There is differences in the mix." 

Justin M./Technical Service Rep.
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
 

 

That’s exactly the answer I would have expected.

[sauza45]

I use winchester srp in both open and limited and have never had any trouble. That is what my builder said to use and have used them for many many years.

[superdude]

15 hours ago, EEH said:

That’s exactly the answer I would have expected.

 

And by that you mean you knew the primers were different?

[EEH]

Yes,, the company makes two different kind of primers, I don’t think they could just put that label on them.

[usmc1974]

For many years I have only used small rifle primers, for all my handguns and all my rifles, that use small primers. Save me a lot of time and money.  I don't have to invest in small pistol primers at all. Also I do not have to worry about accidentally getting a small pistol primer in one of my rifles.

Edited June 4, 2020 by usmc1974

[NOSHMJ]

I think I am going that route also. Small rifle only for all pistol.  

[mkmckinley]

Anyone had issues doing this in 9mm minor? I have a bunch of SRPs (magtech and winchester if that matters) but I can’t find SPP anywhere, at least not for a reasonable price. I’d be running 125 or 147 gr coated bullets and either tightgroup or sport pistol.

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, mkmckinley said:

Anyone had issues doing this in 9mm minor? I have a bunch of SRPs (magtech and winchester if that matters) but I can’t find SPP anywhere, at least not for a reasonable price. I’d be running 125 or 147 gr coated bullets and either tightgroup or sport pistol.

You run a slight risk of breech face erosion because there won't be enough pressure to seal the primers in place when fired. Maybe......

[mkmckinley]

I might be willing to risk it. How fast does breech face erosion occur? Is it something I could check every 250 rounds or so after each range session and discontinue the SRPs at the first hint of pitting?